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stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,002
7,886
Colorado
jebfour said:
Same, and I'm due to travel with someone who refuses to get his shots. Seems reasonable (to me) that the my employer should be able to mandate that they at least get tested prior to me being in close proximity to them for a week.
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You can probably challenge, validly, the company for a second rental car. Just get everything in writing with the words "concern for my health given current CDC recommendations".
 
jebfour

jebfour

Turbo Monkey
Jun 19, 2003
2,141
1,528
CLT, NC
stoney said:
You can probably challenge, validly, the company for a second rental car. Just get everything in writing with the words "concern for my health given current CDC recommendations".
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This isn't a bad idea. I've been thinking about this quite a bit and what I think I'm going to do is drive there instead of fly (about a 6 hour drive) and then we can travel to appointments separately. I'm just not comfortable being in the same car with the guy for extended periods of time, as I have to assume (and it's just that - an assumption. I don't know this for fact) that if he refuses to get vaccinated that he may not be very careful about this kind of thing when he's off the clock. I'm reasonably sure my boss will be OK with this as he doesn't understand the anti-vaxxer mindset either and he understands my concern.
 
slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,795
5,625
Ottawa, Canada
As I was bringing my kids to camp today, I saw a lawn sign for "no more lockdowns". it's from the anti-mask group as well. I feel like printing off another sign that says "it's in your hands, get your vaccine" and stapling it to their lawn sign.

but it's probably a sisyphyian undertaking always. once a mouth breather, always a mouth breather.
 
slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,795
5,625
Ottawa, Canada
jebfour said:
This isn't a bad idea. I've been thinking about this quite a bit and what I think I'm going to do is drive there instead of fly (about a 6 hour drive) and then we can travel to appointments separately. I'm just not comfortable being in the same car with the guy for extended periods of time, as I have to assume (and it's just that - an assumption. I don't know this for fact) that if he refuses to get vaccinated that he may not be very careful about this kind of thing when he's off the clock. I'm reasonably sure my boss will be OK with this as he doesn't understand the anti-vaxxer mindset either and he understands my concern.
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I think it should be about more than your boss. I don't know how large your company is, but I think the threat of being held responsible for health care costs, and any other form of redress, should begin seeping into the collective mindset of employers. Sure anti-vaxxing is a personal choice. but when it causes harm to others, people should be held to account for their choice. I have to assume that in a society as litigious as the US', this reality will begin to set in? Given that corporations are people, and they have the right to require their employees to vaccinate, if they don't exercise that right, then surely they can be held to account?
 
jebfour

jebfour

Turbo Monkey
Jun 19, 2003
2,141
1,528
CLT, NC
All excellent points. To be fair to my employer, they have treated their employees excellent during COVID and took a VERY cautious stance towards the issue. I'm not having my feet held to the fire to travel with this person. However, I know that it needs to be done as his manager (it's required of me but there is no specific timeline set). I just want to take every precaution possible to do so safely. I hired him right before the pandemic hit and instead of traveling to appointments with him 2 months on the job, we're looking at around 18 months.

When I go to the grocery store, or for that matter any store, I'm sure that there are people there that are not vaccinated and not wearing masks because "they can" or "rights" or something. Wouldn't want to think about other people after all. If I traveled separately from him and we both wear masks when around each other (required for him but I'll be doing it as well. We would also need to be socially distanced, per policy) would that not be somewhat similar? Kind of like being on an airplane where everyone is wearing masks (but not everyone is vaccinated) Not sure...but I think so? I'd be interested in your, as well as others' take.

I'm honestly not sure if my company has the right to make their employees get vaccinated. However, you bring up some thought provoking points. As a society, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,850
9,888
Crawlorado
Brian HCM#1 said:
Is this the same CDC that said all last school year it was safe for kids to be back for in class learning?
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Are their recommendations not allowed to change based upon further evidence, understanding, and a re-evaluation of the state of affairs?

Just because their initial guidance was, in retrospect, incorrect, does not mean their current guidance is.
 
Montana rider

Montana rider

Tom Sawyer
Mar 14, 2005
1,943
2,597
Brian HCM#1 said:
Is this the same CDC that said all last school year it was safe for kids to be back for in class learning?
Click to expand...
Is the the same CDC that the orange Anus handcuffed / watered down guidance because he didn't want the stock market to tank.

Let's see, one on hand we have public health experts who devoted their entire lives / careers to this and the other side is team drink bleach / it'll go away in the summer.

Pick your poison ;)
 
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Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,994
22,030
Sleazattle
Adventurous said:
www.nbcnews.com

Sturgis bike rally revs back bigger, despite virus variant

Around 700,000 people are expected to show up for the event that kicks off Friday, raising fears of Covid-19 infections.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Do loud pipes save Covid infected patient lives too?
Click to expand...

Sturgis caused a nice little surge in cases in that part of the world last year. But I am sure all those fine folks will have learned their lesson and will be masked and vaccinated this time.
 
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Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,994
22,030
Sleazattle
Adventurous said:
Are their recommendations not allowed to change based upon further evidence, understanding, and a re-evaluation of the state of affairs?

Just because their initial guidance was, in retrospect, incorrect, does not mean their current guidance is.
Click to expand...

A root cause to a majority of disasters (personal, industrial, national, whatever) is the failure to adapt to changing evidence. I highly recomend the book Deep Survival, it talks about the neuroscience behind how some people avoid or survive shit shows and others just die. It discusses things in the context of outdoor survival but is relevant to pretty much every aspect of life. But it is science based, so I am sure it is just part of some conspiracy.

Some people need to read it more than others, sadly it isn't a picture book so kind of pointless for them.
 
Last edited:
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,002
7,886
Colorado
jebfour said:
All excellent points. To be fair to my employer, they have treated their employees excellent during COVID and took a VERY cautious stance towards the issue. I'm not having my feet held to the fire to travel with this person. However, I know that it needs to be done as his manager (it's required of me but there is no specific timeline set). I just want to take every precaution possible to do so safely. I hired him right before the pandemic hit and instead of traveling to appointments with him 2 months on the job, we're looking at around 18 months.

When I go to the grocery store, or for that matter any store, I'm sure that there are people there that are not vaccinated and not wearing masks because "they can" or "rights" or something. Wouldn't want to think about other people after all. If I traveled separately from him and we both wear masks when around each other (required for him but I'll be doing it as well. We would also need to be socially distanced, per policy) would that not be somewhat similar? Kind of like being on an airplane where everyone is wearing masks (but not everyone is vaccinated) Not sure...but I think so? I'd be interested in your, as well as others' take.

I'm honestly not sure if my company has the right to make their employees get vaccinated. However, you bring up some thought provoking points. As a society, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Click to expand...
I just got off a plane over the weekend. The number of people not wearing or improperly wearing masks was easily 1/3-1/2.
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,002
7,886
Colorado
Brian HCM#1 said:
Is this the same CDC that said all last school year it was safe for kids to be back for in class learning?
Click to expand...
It actually was. Cases went down in states where vaccination rates were up, despite kids being in-school. Where vaccinations were not happening, cases went up.
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,002
7,886
Colorado
SkaredShtles said:
Didn't you fly to/from Idaho? I think there's your answer... :D
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Well, yeah. That didn't help.

Also found out yesterday that one of the employees at my grandparent's assisted living facility tested positive. But apparently she was only there Friday. :rolleyes:
 
Montana rider

Montana rider

Tom Sawyer
Mar 14, 2005
1,943
2,597
stoney said:
It actually was. Cases went down in states where vaccination rates were up, despite kids being in-school. Where vaccinations were not happening, cases went up.
Click to expand...
The "other" side is more interested in "what about-ism" than good faith disagreement about policy.

I suspect in red MT the kids are fucked but it will be interesting to see how regional differences in city vs county vaccination rates create the same red/blue divide were seeing nationally on a state level.


https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1422388463895187457

There's a group of pesky unvaccinated ruffians I want to discuss
You know -- no lottery tickets will get them vaccinated
They are recalcitrant
I have one of them in my house
Yes, the under 12
How best to protect them?
Empirical data can show us the way

Despite stark differences in vaccinations by state,
In Louisiana, 0% of kids under 12 vaccinated
In Florida, 0% of kids under 12 vaccinated
Even in high vax Massachusetts
0% of kids under 12 vaccinated
So if we're in a pandemic of the unvaccinated, are these kids in trouble?

Actually, while vaccination rates for kids under 12 are identical (0%) across states,
Infection numbers are not
In Massachusetts, about 250 kids under 10 years of age infected last week
In Florida, it was about 9,000
In Louisiana, it was about 1600

Florida had 12X as many kids infected as Massachusetts last week
And Louisiana? About 10X
So what's going on?
None of these kids are vaccinated!
So why are infection rates so much lower in MA?
Right, because kids are protected by adults

Kid infection numbers driven largely by infection numbers in adults
In Israel, we saw that as adults got vaccinated
Infection numbers in kids plummeted
So how do I best protect my 9 year-old unvaccinated kid?
By making sure all adults around him are vaxxed

So when you hear we have a pandemic of the unvaccinated
Yes that includes kids
But largely only in unvaccinated communities
Very few kids in highly vaccinated places are getting sick
So if you want to protect unvaccinated kids
Make sure everyone around them has the shot
Fin
 
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jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,802
27,011
media blackout
a riding buddy just posted something, the son of one of his colleagues just died as a result of covid. this is only an excerpt, name omitted for privacy:

Tomorrow I will attend the funeral for a 20 year old, the son of a friend and co-worker, who has passed away from COVID-19 complications. He was scheduled to receive his 1st vaccination shot 2 days after contracting COVID. He fought the virus and its lasting effects for over 18 weeks. He was in the hospital hooked up to machines to oxygenate his blood and reduce the burden on his heart and lungs so they could heal. During his time in the hospital he received hundreds of blood transfusions, had his arm amputated, and most of the skin on his chest removed due to the severity of treatment battling the virus. Had he survived, he would have likely needed a lung transplant, those only last 5 years.
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
67,821
14,160
In a van.... down by the river
jonKranked said:
a riding buddy just posted something, the son of one of his colleagues just died as a result of covid. this is only an excerpt, name omitted for privacy:

Tomorrow I will attend the funeral for a 20 year old, the son of a friend and co-worker, who has passed away from COVID-19 complications. He was scheduled to receive his 1st vaccination shot 2 days after contracting COVID. He fought the virus and its lasting effects for over 18 weeks. He was in the hospital hooked up to machines to oxygenate his blood and reduce the burden on his heart and lungs so they could heal. During his time in the hospital he received hundreds of blood transfusions, had his arm amputated, and most of the skin on his chest removed due to the severity of treatment battling the virus. Had he survived, he would have likely needed a lung transplant, those only last 5 years.
Click to expand...
Yeah... once they go on the ECMO machine... things are grim. This sucks. :(
 
boylagz

boylagz

Monkey
Jul 12, 2011
558
61
SF bay area
^ Yeah nah, if youre on ECMO its almost a sure goodbye. I had a classmate from nursing school who died last year in London because of covid. He was on ecmo, he was 33, 34. Everything is phenotypic, if youre immune/resistant to some diseases, great, but if your genes say 'this shlt is gnarly', better be ready.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,747
8,748
Wife got an alert Monday or Tuesday from her phone saying she had had contact with a COVID positive person (via the opt in Bluetooth tracking). Didn’t give her an option to see more or anything.

so she got a PCR swab on Tuesday at a local pharmacy. 1-3 days turnaround via their email, 2-7 per the staff there.

We are hosting a family dinner on Saturday including some elderly people and kids too young for vaccination. All eligible adults attending and possibly my elder kids via the trial are vaccinated. The PCR still hadn’t resulted as of this morning and she was getting antsy as the weekend approaches so she went to a clinic in Renton to self pay $150 for a rapid antigen test. (It was negative.)

With all of this I think we are in the clear/have done our due diligence. Note that I also have the phone contact tracking enabled and I didn’t get an alert. I guess the labs are getting backed up for swabs from asymptomatic people as volumes pick back up once again.
 
Brian HCM#1

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM MAGA!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,224
381
Bay Area, California
stoney said:
It actually was. Cases went down in states where vaccination rates were up, despite kids being in-school. Where vaccinations were not happening, cases went up.
Click to expand...
I can only base there on here in California. I believe we're the highest vaccinated state in the nation, could be wrong though. Then again, vaccines here for our age group/kids 16+ wasn't until April/May. Anyways, if we need to get another booster, so be it. I'm in, just want to get back to some kinda normalcy.,
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,802
27,011
media blackout
Brian HCM#1 said:
I can only base there on here in California. I believe we're the highest vaccinated state in the nation, could be wrong though. Then again, vaccines here for our age group/kids 16+ wasn't until April/May. Anyways, if we need to get another booster, so be it. I'm in, just want to get back to some kinda normalcy.,
Click to expand...
#20 for CA by percentage. my state (PA) is just below Delaware with 52.8%. The county I live in is slightly better than the state rate with 56.4% fully vaccinated. my county is the third highest population in the state with just shy of 840k people. edit: my county is adjacent to the highest populated county in the state (Philadelphia)

1628203183190.png
 
rideit

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,679
12,476
In the cleavage of the Tetons
So, I go to a workout group twice a week. 6-8 dudes, all educated, vaccinated, and ‘woke’ regarding covid. (Terrible term, but fits). One of the younger trainers is a vet, unvaxxed, and I gather not that bright. One dude in the group is a PA /MA, and just absolutely let him have It.
to paraphrase, he said “It’s guys like you who are the reason that we are in this situation again. If the population against vaccines had IQ’s greater than a doorstop, we could honestly try and end this mess. You should be ashamed of yourself. I put two guys about your age in the ICU this week. Think about that”
It was most excellent.
And a little awkward.

I tried breaking the tension with a joke about how I recovered by doing a shot of bleach each night, and that he might try that.
 
dump

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,470
5,108
rideit said:
So, I go to a workout group twice a week. 6-8 dudes, all educated, vaccinated, and ‘woke’ regarding covid. (Terrible term, but fits). One of the younger trainers is a vet, unvaxxed, and I gather not that bright. One dude in the group is a PA /MA, and just absolutely let him have It.
to paraphrase, he said “It’s guys like you who are the reason that we are in this situation again. If the population against vaccines had IQ’s greater than a doorstop, we could honestly try and end this mess. You should be ashamed of yourself. I put two guys about your age in the ICU this week. Think about that”
It was most excellent.
And a little awkward.

I tried breaking the tension with a joke about how I recovered by doing a shot of bleach each night, and that he might try that.
Click to expand...
How effective at changing behaviour is letting him have it. What I’ve read suggests, not very.
 
dump

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,470
5,108
Was looking for a babysitter online. Got a bunch of good responses. One is a masters student. Spoke with her today. When I asked about her vaccination status, it got quiet and then she said no, she hasn’t gotten the vaccine. Told her how that was important to us. She replied that she was planning on getting it, but is waiting to make sure it’s safe. And that she hasn’t gotten covid yet, and would be happy to wear a mask around the kiddo.

I wonder what will make her feel safe about getting it. About 60% of the province is double vaccinated!
 
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