the beltway sniper doesn't rate?....long and drawn out...
indian reservation shooting last week?
Last edited:
CT: 27 dead including 18 kids in CT school shooting. There are no words - WTF?!
- Thread starter stoney
- Start date
indian reservation shooting last week?
and the color.
First ratified in 1791.
Do you think they had any fvcking idea, even a remote clue, as to the sheer firepower they were granting to common citizens of the future? Do you think they would have been ok with a woman owning an AR-15?
Written and ratified over 200 years ago, when the states were scarcely populated, before mass production was even a concept, when the accuracy and rate of fire of weapons was measure in yards and minutes, not millimeters and milliseconds, when most all mentally ill people were locked up and neutered (not given a TV show like today), when the concept of a human being did not include black people or women, etc etc etc.
After the first world war, decades upon decades after the 2nd amendment was created, the entire world shuddered in horror at how far the technology of killing had gone. They called it the "war to end all wars", because they thought no greater harm could ever come to man.
And now technology that makes WWI look like the bronze age is available for anyone, no matter how unstable, to buy and use, as much as they want, without limitation save the law. (which is meaningless to someone with suicide as the end result)
THAT, is fvcking insane.
I don't know why I did, but I went on youtube to see what that "rifle" is. I'm not even sure if this is the exact same gun,
but the thought that that was the last sound those kids heard in their life is revolting to me. I don't understand why owning one is so important.
Agreed so many times over.....................
there was no way to even begin to fathom what was going to happen in the future when the constitution was written. and that's the problem we are stuck with today. there are things that should be changed but probably will never be. with the issue at hand, the system failed. I don't own a gun, but I have friends that do and I'm considering getting my LTC. not because of this, but I'd like to start shooting again. should part of the process include a medical background check, specifically for mental? after this I'd have to say yes. but that's for licensed people. what about all the illegal weapons out there? in the end we can all go back and forth with pro's and con's but killing on a mass scale can be done so many different ways. do we try to regulate all that as well?
Me and Dirt have access to guns, many of them actually. Think of that for a second...
I'll cop flack for saying this, particularly as an outsider but what the heck.
Your constitution needs to be changed. Why the f*ck would anyone need a semi or full auto weapon? Your right to bear arms I agree with, but they shoulda drawn the line at something remotely sensible. In Australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, the government banned semi automatic and concealable weapons. I've got no idea why some people think they're entitled to own a military style weapon, but IMO stating that you specifically want a gun that is designed to be used on humans should be all it takes to have all your weapons taken away.
Sorry for the interruption, I don't mean to be telling you what to do with you're own country. Seems you've got the situation plenty under control.
Your constitution needs to be changed. Why the f*ck would anyone need a semi or full auto weapon? Your right to bear arms I agree with, but they shoulda drawn the line at something remotely sensible. In Australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, the government banned semi automatic and concealable weapons. I've got no idea why some people think they're entitled to own a military style weapon, but IMO stating that you specifically want a gun that is designed to be used on humans should be all it takes to have all your weapons taken away.
Sorry for the interruption, I don't mean to be telling you what to do with you're own country. Seems you've got the situation plenty under control.
No flack from me.
I'm not worried too much about Dirt.
His "What gun rack for my FJ" and "GFY Fed-Ex, now that my 1,000 rounds of ammo is delayed I need to reschedule my public temper tantrum at the mall" threads will tip off his intentions.
Did they ever actually confirm that the guy they found in the woods was connected?
As I've heard it, it's the younger brother and he was hiding? He's been VERY vocal about him not being his brother.
I probably should refrain from posting, given that this is not my fight to fight (living in Canada as I do). But I found this blog posting very interesting.
and this article that it links to very interesting as well.
I wish the US the best of luck in this debate, and I hope that it leads to some sort of movement that sees less lives lost.
and this article that it links to very interesting as well.
I wish the US the best of luck in this debate, and I hope that it leads to some sort of movement that sees less lives lost.
You should hear the logic that gets tossed around here. It's rarely stated directly but is usually something along the lines of god given right to firearms. Because god WANTS double digit IQ rednecks to have kids that accidentally shoot their siblings. Can't argue with god. It's not the government's place to give rights or take them away.......jesus wants us to have bullets that expand and break into thousands of pieces when they hit a bone. You know.......for hunting.
God just doesn't want australians to have those. Only us.
Last edited:
http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother
"I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother
Liza Long
Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."
"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"
"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"
"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"
"You know where we are going," I replied.
"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."
I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.
No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."
I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all."
"I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother
Liza Long
Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."
"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"
"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"
"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"
"You know where we are going," I replied.
"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."
I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.
No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."
I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all."
Last edited:
The Founding Fathers were smarter than you, me and anyone who frequents this board.
The 2nd Amendment was written as a reaction to an overly oppressive King who used his army to secure his will on a global scale. Our founding fathers had no intention of letting several kings who were much closer do the same thing to the people of this country.
I get that a great many of you disagree with guns. I get that many of you are from countries that don't allow firearms. I think I understand that many of you think this is the way to go.
Let me tell you cousin, it's not.
At the end of the day, the Founding Fathers put that into the Constitution for some very valid reasons. Those reasons are more valid today than they ever were before.
If you're a foreigner, especially a Canadian or an Australian and you think we need to change OUR Constitution to fit your definition of the world, do me a favor and go **** yourself.
Americans need to understand that the cat's out of the bag when it comes to guns. You're not going to be able to do sweeping gun raids, take them all back and secure the nation. I know Kidwoo thinks this would work, but all you'll do is make outlaws out of half of the people you know and cause a second civil war. Mind you, I don't think a second civil war is a bad idea at this point, but that's just because I don't want many of you as my neighbors.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin said that. And he was right.
The 2nd Amendment was written as a reaction to an overly oppressive King who used his army to secure his will on a global scale. Our founding fathers had no intention of letting several kings who were much closer do the same thing to the people of this country.
I get that a great many of you disagree with guns. I get that many of you are from countries that don't allow firearms. I think I understand that many of you think this is the way to go.
Let me tell you cousin, it's not.
At the end of the day, the Founding Fathers put that into the Constitution for some very valid reasons. Those reasons are more valid today than they ever were before.
If you're a foreigner, especially a Canadian or an Australian and you think we need to change OUR Constitution to fit your definition of the world, do me a favor and go **** yourself.
Americans need to understand that the cat's out of the bag when it comes to guns. You're not going to be able to do sweeping gun raids, take them all back and secure the nation. I know Kidwoo thinks this would work, but all you'll do is make outlaws out of half of the people you know and cause a second civil war. Mind you, I don't think a second civil war is a bad idea at this point, but that's just because I don't want many of you as my neighbors.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin said that. And he was right.
Full Blown Retardation...
And there it is again, American Elitism.
i think you're all insane over there. i really do.
Agreed. I just saw two teenage girls being interviewed saying while this was sad, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Brainwashed
We do things every day that promote mental illness. We sit at computers, plugged into smart phones in isolated cubicles 10+ hours a day, getting very limited physical excercise. We go home to play violent online videogames, with ultra-real graphics making us numb to violence, while stuffing our bodies with every refined, processed, chemically-laced excuse for 'food' we feel we might at the time desire. We distance ourselves with other humans physically, all the while staying super connected to the social and financial grid via smartphones and social media. This enables us to text, tweet, post or share things we never would in 'real' life, the physical distance of the respondants limiting our knowledge or perception of how the 'target' may feel.
As a country, we promote spending trillions on defense, on fighter aircraft, on nuclear weaponry, on investigations into pro sports, all the while we punish and imprison our own mentally ill. We pay for other nations to recieve medical/mental care, yet we don't afford our own citizens that opportunity, and our own people, who, for the most part, have paid into this broken system their whole lives are not given the opportunity to heal and live well.
As a country, we're in a very scary place. We've never been so disconnected from reality, and I think this is one of the prices we'll have to pay until we reunite. I've never thought gun control would necesarily solve the problem, but I also don't understand why it's easier to obtain a military grade assault weapon than it is to see a mental health professional. I truly, truly hope there is a withdrawl of sorts on all of this, I hope people begin to see the way we're living is just so f----- up. I hope people start ditching the smartphones and TVs for books and campfires with loved ones. I hope people begin spending money on bikes and maps and books instead of guns and the next call of duty franchise.
I'm sorry for the rant/babbling; This is just the saddest fvcking thing I've ever heard. I am so sad for our country and all of our sick, angry, anxious and depressed.
As a country, we promote spending trillions on defense, on fighter aircraft, on nuclear weaponry, on investigations into pro sports, all the while we punish and imprison our own mentally ill. We pay for other nations to recieve medical/mental care, yet we don't afford our own citizens that opportunity, and our own people, who, for the most part, have paid into this broken system their whole lives are not given the opportunity to heal and live well.
As a country, we're in a very scary place. We've never been so disconnected from reality, and I think this is one of the prices we'll have to pay until we reunite. I've never thought gun control would necesarily solve the problem, but I also don't understand why it's easier to obtain a military grade assault weapon than it is to see a mental health professional. I truly, truly hope there is a withdrawl of sorts on all of this, I hope people begin to see the way we're living is just so f----- up. I hope people start ditching the smartphones and TVs for books and campfires with loved ones. I hope people begin spending money on bikes and maps and books instead of guns and the next call of duty franchise.
I'm sorry for the rant/babbling; This is just the saddest fvcking thing I've ever heard. I am so sad for our country and all of our sick, angry, anxious and depressed.
And yet, TSA, and nobody bats an eye.
As a whole, there is no correlation with mental illness, video games, or other commonly mentioned items and gun violence. Subjective interpretations from one event won't solve the real problems.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/
Last edited:
That Franklin line looks to me to be of equal use against both sides of the gun debate.
heh although I'm not sure the word "debate" is the best word to use anymore, but "hysterical shrieking with knee jerks and cherry picking facts" is a bit too long winded.
But they should be.
..in my line of work I know a few "Michaels" and am getting to know more day by day.
granted
Because they would know full well that in 2012 a government armed with drones and tanks would have no problem coming for your ass regardless of all the shlt you bought at cabelas.
What does 'well regulated' mean to you? What does organized militia mean to you? They were talking about something comparable to the national guard, not you holed up in a shack in montana screaming 'out of my cold dead hands'.
That's a chickenshlt response. The very idea that it's too late to improve our society is fvcking cowardly and lazy. It's hilarious you want to bag on other countries who have sucessfully remedied this exact situation. In fact your logic(sic) is the only thing standing in the way. You're the one too scared to even attempt to keep more people from dying. Go thump your chest in the mirror about your own stubborness. No one else cares about you presenting obstinence as a virtue. It's not.
Also while I'm not from America and i don't know anything about the mental health system etc., I will say that in Ireland the mental health system is awful as well, but this kind of thing never happens. Guns are clearly the problem and I find it ridiculous that anyone can think anything otherwise.
The last incident i can think of similar to this in my side of Europe is the Scottish school shooting, which was 16 years ago. I think it would be a lot different if we had guns available in every single town. Everywhere has it's fair share of mentally ill, dangerous people, but when they lash out here it's a case of 1 or 2 people being injured/killed with a sword or a knife etc. rather than double figures being mowed down by an automatic weapon.
Letting anyone have the power to take someone's life so easily is a horrible idea from the get go, and it's pretty obvious something needs to be done, but it probably won't due to people like Dirt McGirk. 'Merica
The last incident i can think of similar to this in my side of Europe is the Scottish school shooting, which was 16 years ago. I think it would be a lot different if we had guns available in every single town. Everywhere has it's fair share of mentally ill, dangerous people, but when they lash out here it's a case of 1 or 2 people being injured/killed with a sword or a knife etc. rather than double figures being mowed down by an automatic weapon.
Letting anyone have the power to take someone's life so easily is a horrible idea from the get go, and it's pretty obvious something needs to be done, but it probably won't due to people like Dirt McGirk. 'Merica
If the government ever wanted to oppress you, they simply would. Your assault rifle isn't going to do more than a shotgun. You used to be able to solve these types of problems with guns. You can't now, the gap between the power of a single person and the government is far too large (no matter how big your gun is). The amount of difference you and your rebelliousness gun could make is far outweighed by the terror that can be created by one person on unsuspecting and innocent victims. The negatives outweigh the benefits to me. It is that simple.
Last edited:
I own guns, had been exposed guns my whole life, was taught responsibility from a young age, and I do believe in right to protect my home and self. There are a lot of bad people in the world, and the police simply cannot be everywhere all the time. My opinion is that there are at LEAST as many irresponsible gun owners, if not outright criminals, as there are people like me.Lynard Skynard said:
In my life I've had a gun pushed in my face by someone who could have ended my life in an instant for want of the money in my pocket at the time. The same lowlife who didn't get my friend's money from her as quickly as he wanted then shot at us while making his getaway. Perhaps he missed on purpose? Maybe we just got lucky? If you have never had a gun pointed at your face or been shot at, STFU about how your rights would have trumped me or my friend's lives had we been hit.
Another childhood friend who buried his little brother, shot by accident while playing with a kid in the neighborhood who took the gun from his Mom's dresser to show his friends. There were almost 400 gun deaths last year in the city where I grew up, and many TIMES more shootings. All those occurred under handgun BAN. (I only add that stat for the many people reading this who don't live in a major city with real crime.) I have some personal experiences so my perspective may be slightly different than yours.
I have a friend who lost a whole lot of his freedom because of guns (and drugs). You want a fvcking guarantee that you won't get off lightly with a drug charge? Get arrested while carrying a gun.
Gun deaths are prevalent because of the presence of guns. Oversimplified but 100% accurate. IMO if given the option of attacking people with any other method of violence, a potential killer would have a much more difficult time doing in minutes what you can do with a gun. Guns make killing easy; whether distant and certainly at close range.
Maybe I'm getting older and wiser, or I'm just emotional from this most recent incident and it being a bunch of innocent kids, but I'm all for any changes in our laws that could prevent or minimize the chance of this ever happening again. Please, don't make comparisons to war, auto accidents, getting struck by lightning, dying in surgery or god's will, etc.
I don't know why I'm even saying this. This is one of those topics where even logical debates don't change other's minds, but events like we just saw can change minds. I'm not even sure I can give a solid definition of 'control' but there is no doubt in my mind that we can do more to protect ourselves from ourselves.
No, I have NO idea how we get there from here.
Last edited:
please don't sit over there in you quaint little village and your leprechauns and your Guinness and spout off to us about gun violence and rule of law. Ireland has its own issues: http://i.imgur.com/b4V4v.jpg that you should go about trying to correct and spout off on the internet about before you try to correct ours. Don't forget the period in Ireland's history where a lot of people had guns and there was just a touch of violence. I'm sure every act of violence was committed with a legally owned and licensed weapon, right? Never any bombs right?
As much as I think he can be a f*t f*ck, Dirt is right, you will never round up and collect all of the guns in the US. And if the one thing this tragedy teaches us, is that there's no sweeping law that will correct it. He used handguns and rifles. They were all registered. Was he ever treated for mental illness? Was he truly mentally ill, or did he just listen to slipknot? All the other shooters, did they use unregistered illegally gotten automatic weapons with folding stocks and large capacity magazines? What regulation can we enact that could have possibly prevented this?
I agree and question the need for a large and well-equipped militia when our government has things like nukes and drones and tanks and bombs, but I think it's quite ridiculous to say that responsible gun owners shouldn't be allowed to own guns at all.
I understand what you're saying, but as my statistics professor said on the first day of class "statistics don't prove a thing"
The second most violent school shooting in our history just occured in a Obama supporting, well educated, shall issue, wealthy community by a mentally ill white kid... all of which contradicts what your article says. So how can we apply the rest of our common notions towards mass shootings from your article? I don't think we can.
What's the definition of insanity again?
Last edited:
I completely agree; and I don't know what's so difficult to understand here.
Sandwich: You're right. No one law or restriction will change much, not in one generation. No one realistically expects that. But a multi-pronged approach, part of which being one that directly reforms firearm access and continued possession has to be addressed. We didn't go into a civil war when the assault weapons ban went into place......contrary to dirk's assertion. It's doable, and it should be done. And for the love of god, this country needs to quit glorifying this mighty justice doing heavily armed cowboy keeping the government at bay nonsense. It's bullshlt, and it's become the defacto reasoning to keep sitting on our asses and not doing anything about this very real situation.
But everyone's very well aware we're talking generations down the road to see the effect. I gladly concede that's the best we can hope for. But not getting overnight results is NOT a reason to cower down and do nothing. Especially not in the name of 'freedom'. Lots of parents just had their freedom to raise kids impeded upon. That's a hell of a lot worse than not having the freedom feel like a tough guy with a heavy piece of metal in your closet. It's not even close to being the same proportion.
But everyone's very well aware we're talking generations down the road to see the effect. I gladly concede that's the best we can hope for. But not getting overnight results is NOT a reason to cower down and do nothing. Especially not in the name of 'freedom'. Lots of parents just had their freedom to raise kids impeded upon. That's a hell of a lot worse than not having the freedom feel like a tough guy with a heavy piece of metal in your closet. It's not even close to being the same proportion.
Last edited:
what's hard to understand is how do you balance the necessity of control with the constitutional right to bear arms (RARGH). I don't think taking away guns from everybody will solve this (I know it won't). Reducing the amount of weapons out there is fair, but how do you address the responsible collector out in Montana with 400 acres of land and no neighbors while still addressing the suburban apocalypse preparer?
I agree with you that action HAS TO BE taken. Something HAS TO BE done. I agree that a multi-armed, octopus like (noodley apendage?) approach is the best way. promote mental health. Slow down the ability for people to acquire weapons. Increase regulation and certification needs. Promote awareness of mental health needs and speed the process of treatment.
I'm just trying to make the point that taking away ALL GUNS or preventing anybody who has ever smelled a person with depression from owning them will not solve the problem, at all.
I think a good start would be to ban assault weapons. If this dickhead had to make due with two pistols rather than a military grade weapon, perhaps a life or two would have been spared. Montana or Stamford, I just don't see the reason to own an assault weapon. Good start?
And Sandwich, I agree it would not be right to take away ALL firearms in the country; I also doubt it would ever happen. I still think the issue lies more with mental health than it does with gun control.
Last edited:
It's quite a quandary. I remember a few years ago when PA was having a problem with high powered rifles being used in crimes in Philly and other urban areas. They tried to pass laws but were met with heavy resistance because the majority of PA is rural and the way the laws were written they would limit a lot of hunting rifles. The laws never passed.