Okay frothers and others, what's the big deal with Cuba? Why does the US governemnt hate Cuba and Castro so much?
Cuba
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Cuz he's a poopy head.
Well for one, ever hear of the Cuban Missile Crisis?
...and you know how bad we just hate communists and dictators altogether too.
...and you know how bad we just hate communists and dictators altogether too.
When was that again? Oh yeah, shortly after the Bay of Pigs... Over 30 years ago.BurlySurly said:
Oh sure, King Fayed knows, Pinochet knows. Gaddafi knows...BurlySurly said:
So why does the Great USA need to hate communists?
And what same person has been in charge for like 43 years? Ill give you a hint, he fell on his face the other day and I laughed.fluff said:
So, what you're saying is that you have no good reasons?BurlySurly said:
No. Im saying that Fidel Castro, the guy who tried getting Nukes in Cuba to aim at the US is still on the sh!tlist. If there had been some free election and the guy was replaced or something, we could perhaps make ammends, but make no mistake, he has as much disdain for the US as we have for him. We've been calling each other evil for years.fluff said:
The US has done far more evil to Cuba than Cuba has done to the US. He has far more reason to be wary of the US than the US does of Cuba.BurlySurly said:
When Castro took power he toured the US seeking support, the hand of cooperation was spurned. If he did want nukes, do you not think that may have had something to do with the nukes pointed at him and the history of attempted overthrow/assassination?
This is a US generated and perpetuated scenario.
We hate Cuba because of the large number of Anti-Castro Cubans living in the swing state of Florida. If all the Castro haters moved to California or Texas they would be ignored and we might have a logical policy on Cuba.
If we hate commies so much why are we so kissy kissy with China?
If we hate commies so much why are we so kissy kissy with China?
yeah nukes and all that but after 30 years of sanctions, i think we've pretty much made the country impotent. in fact, bush imposed even harsher sanctions on cubans living in america. they are not allowed to go home more than once every two years and the amount of money they are allowed to send relatives has been slashed.
as for china, we are kissy kissy because it is quickly becoming a player on the international scene. the number of people, the military and the move towards modernization means that if we don't start making nice now we will be in a fix. in terms of political geography, china's the next big superpower just waiting to happen.
as for china, we are kissy kissy because it is quickly becoming a player on the international scene. the number of people, the military and the move towards modernization means that if we don't start making nice now we will be in a fix. in terms of political geography, china's the next big superpower just waiting to happen.
c´mon cubans live on 10 dollars a month (my folks went to varadero 2 weeks ago, and the hotel employees told them), doctors make 14 bucks a month, everybody gets a fixed amount of food because there is no more food to sell, and the entire island is full of teenagers "jineteras" renting their privates for a few bucks to smelly europeans and US pedophiles.
my mom forgot her toothbrush, and had to wash her mouth the entire week with a q-tip because she could not find one for sale.
the sanctions against the mofo castro, are not against him, no matter what you do, he will smuggle whatever he wants for his personal use.
is the people of cuba who live miserabily because of them. the missile crisis??? oh c´mon the US has already done far more damage to cuba than cuba has ever done or could do to the US.
what is the point now???
i´ve been thinking, and i guess it may be part of the "to have a common enemy unifies a nation". i guess that has a lot to do with the satanization of commies.
my mom forgot her toothbrush, and had to wash her mouth the entire week with a q-tip because she could not find one for sale.
the sanctions against the mofo castro, are not against him, no matter what you do, he will smuggle whatever he wants for his personal use.
is the people of cuba who live miserabily because of them. the missile crisis??? oh c´mon the US has already done far more damage to cuba than cuba has ever done or could do to the US.
what is the point now???
i´ve been thinking, and i guess it may be part of the "to have a common enemy unifies a nation". i guess that has a lot to do with the satanization of commies.
So why is it that just because the US has a embargo Cuba has gone to Shcit? Is there no where else on the planet where Castro could get stuff? Mexico was shipping stuff there until just a short time ago... so why the hardships?ALEXIS_DH said:
Castro is using his people as pawns, he could get supplies or aid, but will not accept it. I'm sure he has plenty of medicine for his broken arm and knee...
Slugman said:
lol... how "just because the US embargoed cuba" cuba has gone down the sink???
the US has a crapload of power in other nations. a million more times than your mind can imagine any foreign power having influence in the US.
a US backed embargo, is not only against the country in the embargo (cuba in this case). it also punishes any other nations that will trade with this nation.
that means, nobody wants to trade with Cuba (but venezuela as far as i know), because the US will rip them in pieces in no time if they did so.
so its not only a unilateral US not selling stuff to Cuba (which would be perfectly OK IMO), but its a policy of punishment for anybody who trades with cuba for non-essential stuff like medicines, or the allowed amount of food (which is not close to enough).
i have first hand experience with embargoes, Peru was embargoed in the late 80s. and it sucks ass. its like the oil crisis in the US in the 70s. remembers the lanes for gas everywhere?? its the same in any coutnry embargoed by the US, but not onl for gas, but for everything you want to buy.
Mexico had been openely dealing with them until about a year or so ago...ALEXIS_DH said:
France has a very open trade with them and has for years...
Canada provided assistance
Tourism is huge
I can fly to the bahama's and for $30 get a ID card that I can use to fly into Cuba... basically it is just so the US gov't doesn't see "cuba" on my passport.
It's Castro's choice that his people suffer...
It was the russian Gov that was trying to put nukes on their base in cuba.BurlySurly said:
I think it biols down to... the US hates cuba because Fidel is a loose cannon type of guy and he lives just a few knots from Florida.
Duh! I thought the cubans made the nukes themselvesgolgiaparatus said:
Thanks for clearing that up.EDIT: And i did say "cuban missile crisis" which would also explicitly imply that.
We wanted Castro gone, he wanted to take out our leaders... it's a rivalry that never ended.Changleen said:
Don't think it was one-sided. Castro actually had assisnation squads in the US. There are spots in the everglades (you can take a tour and they will show you these spots) that were used by "unknown" forces to train. The items they left behind implicated Cuba (russian weopons, literature/notes in spanish that used Cuban dialect, etc).
You just don't forgive someone for trying to assasinate your leaders because a couple decades have past.
Florida has been a swing state since the '60s and that is the only reason why we have embargo... amazing.Westy said:
partial truth.Slugman said:
do you think he is more responsible that those who administer the suffering???
its like with the palestians. its their fault because its their choice to stay there and get slaughtered? or is it also fault of those administering the killings??
its like bart simpson telling Lisa, is your sole fault if you dont move while am punching the air, while walking towards.
and dont use the analogy with any judicial system, because the eeuu is no higher-ruling-court to decide who gets punished, nor the rights of others, appoinntment by nobody by the white house itself.
Changleen said:
there is some truth in this.
think what hàppens with any country that doesnt bend over??
venezuela?? didnt they get couped some months ago with US money?? the only thing saving them from an embargo is their oil...
north korea?? isnt the white house considering military action?
Syria??
France?? freedom fries???
china??
what kind of relation does the US has with those country that do not bend over??
the list is not so short...
Because we're in their pocket.Westy said:
And once you're in that, you ain't ever coming out.Skookum said:
Have you ever heard of the word nemesis?Silver said:
Y'know, I know that Guy Ritchie is a talentless hack, but I still really enjoy both his movies.Skookum said:
Have you seen Shaun of the Dead? Funny stuff...
Nope, Florida has not been a swing state for the last 40 years. A lot of other things have changed since then, like the whole world. The commie threat is dead and Castro is pretty much harmless these days, yet our policies remain the same. The only thing our current policy does is satisfy a small but powerful group of voters. We are doing ourselves a disservice by keeping American businesses out of a particular market, the rest of the world happily trades with them and somehow Castro has yet to destabilize the western world. At least not yet, bwa ha aahahahahah.Slugman said:
No. My dad's the guy who gave birth to the kid who screwed your mom.Changleen said:Your Dad?
I kinda like Cuba. There's a really nice reef break on the windward side of the Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, and about 1.5miles west of the base there is a KILLER rt. point.
Yeah their trade with France has been lucrative as hell.Westy said:
Seriously, as soon as Castro dies there will be an election, the commies will be ousted and a new resort mecca will be born.
I hope it happens sooner than later, the Giants could use a good left handed reliever.
Hmmm proof DT's foreign policy is based on what kinda surf they have on thier shores....Damn True said:
i should have suspected....
Levity.....look it up.Skookum said:Hmmm proof DT's foreign policy is based on what kinda surf they have on thier shores....
Slugman said:
i dont support castro. I think he is mofo. i know all those stories as well. and am not saying he is a innocent bystander.
what am saying is that he is truly bad for the Cuban people. But he is not worse than the other side, the white house, pushing for an embargo, in which the only victims are the cubans.
castro is the rock, and the US is the hard surface.
the cubans are in the middle. They are getting stiffed from both sides, because not Castro, nor the white house want to lift this embargo for things that happened 30 years ago.
dont you think the rock and the hard surface are both responsible for the suffering of those cubans today????????
or is only castro the only responsible, according to the absolute moral, self-rightousness, US-infalacy, and the double standard in the foreign policy of the white house??
So why not go on about the crappy government policies that allow the average Cuban to live in poverty with crappy medical care, little or no hope for improving themselves or a life something other than what the government says they can have. A country's government is ultimately responsible for the safety and care of its OWN citizens. Its called accountability.ALEXIS_DH said:
Cuba could be a much better place if Castro modified government policies both domestically and internationally to better match the needs of his people. And I certainly don't mean a modification of his policies or feelings towards the US. Cuba doesn't need the US. Cuba doesn't need the US to trade with or provide support to provide better for its own citizens.
Why not blame the Russians? It was there pull out in the late 80's and 90's that caused the recession that Cuba is just now recovering from not any US embargo.
Or even now Castro as said that US dollars will no longer be allowed to be legally be traded after Nov. 8th. What do you think that is going to do their economy? I didn't see where Bush was signing that law into being. Oh but Cubans will be able to exchange their US currency for Cuban currency at a set rate with a 10% commission. 10% commission how is that helpful or providing for his citizens?
Even then if the US was to all of sudden to open the flood gates by lifting the embargo. The backlash that the US had ruined Cuba and its natural beauty do the huge amount of industrialization and commercialization that would inevitably occur.
Just because I decide not to do business with you does not make it my responsibility if your business fails. No matter how ridculous the reasons maybe.
A Cuban pal of mine says when Castro dies the whole country of Cuba is gonna be in a bloody civil war as revenge is extracted...
DRB said:
if that was tha case, it would be fair. perfectly fair.
I said this earlier. If the US didnt want to trade with Cuba, that is its right and its fine by any ethical standard.
But its not the case, the almost 40 years of embargo, are not only against Cuba, but they included punishment for other nations willing to trade with Cuba. And nobody but most cubans are taking the toll, castro will smuggle whatever he needs.
taken from a .gov site. it explicity says sanctions are urged against those who assist cuba. and by assist, i think its pretty obvious that "trade" is included.
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ar/us-cuba/libertad.htm
(1) Restrictions by other countries.--The Congress hereby reaffirms section 1704(a) of the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992, which states that the President should encourage foreign countries to restrict trade and credit relations with Cuba in a manner consistent with the purposes of that Act
(2) Sanctions on other countries.--The Congress further urges the President to take immediate steps to apply the sanctions described in section 1704(b)(1) of that Act against countries assisting Cuba.
that is the problem. that is not "justice", not even in the machiavellical white house way of broken-nails-for-eyes-heart-kidneys.
that is revenge. and castro is as responsible, for letting this situation continue, as those pushing for the embargo without thinking the effects of the embargo on the population.
its like torturing the son of a murderer, hoping the murderer will surrender. do you think in that case the murderer is 100% responsible for the torture of the kid?
or the torturer AND the murderer are BOTH responsible for torturing a not-guilty kid?
I am not a communist, and I am not defending Cuba or its political and economic systems. and my argument is not for their system, or castro, but for the people of cuba, who ultimately pay the toll of the embargo.
and using the missile crisis as a backup argument? BS, the US is helping Russia right now, and the whole crissis a russian intelectual and physical property!.
under international law the embargo is illegal. and in fact, it doesnt work as good as you wonder. castro would be much less popular if he didn't have the US to blame for his country's problems.
The illusion that sanctions are cost free also necessitates reintroducing the concept of private property into the sanctions debate. It is one thing to stop sending U.S. government dollars to a distasteful regime; it is quite another to prevent private individuals and companies from legally using their own property in another country. and that goes against the "FREEDOM" of the US citizens the white house pushes so much.
not allowing US-ers to travel to cuba, is a big hit against the "personal freedom" the white house, dont you think???