Oh, nevermind...Dunno why it was saying there was a page 41 when there wasn't!
Custom Paint Helmet Thread!!
- Thread starter bizutch
- Start date
very much a work in progress, but you get the idea:
lee, that thing it fvcking sick
might have to give mine a bit of tlc and see what i can come up with.
might have to give mine a bit of tlc and see what i can come up with.
That a Troy Lee paintjob?
Looks good but I imagine it wouldnt be cheap....
Looks good but I imagine it wouldnt be cheap....
I have a couple D2's to paint for myself this year. One will be fairly conservative, the other not so much . . . .
my point-and-shoot doesn't like neon colors, they're a lot brighter than they look
my point-and-shoot doesn't like neon colors, they're a lot brighter than they look
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I have a similar idea with the neon colors but not like yours...
That awesome will really stand out in the crowd
Good job...
That awesome will really stand out in the crowd
Good job...
Lee - that must've been a hell of alot of masking...?!
A basic TLD D2
for when my eyes hurt too much from the neon one:
How much money have you put into paint?
I got my helmet primed today. You will all be seeing a new one on here soon enough.
I have mine down to the carbon,need to make time and get it done,the season starts soon....
Aside from the obvious cost of an airbrush, spray gun, compressor, and all the various paint I've acquired over the years it it's actually really cheap. probably in the neighborhood of $20-50 worth of materials per helmet depending on the design. I might have to spend $10-30 on a particular color if i run out, but 4oz of paint goes a long way (took me almost 5 years to run out of black).
labor is free when you do it youself
Noice... How's that look from the side and front?
this is far from true. painting CORRECTLY is not the cheapest thing in the world and those numbers are quite far off. Please do not start posting incorrect figures about my profession. What a lot of people don't take the time to do is correct prep work and use quality materials. Ask any body shop out there... they will not charge you for a small amount of paint or the percentage used.. they will charge you the full can. The shop cannot lose money with product sitting on the shelf.
Good quality automotive urethane paint is far from cheap. the water based paint (autoair etc) might be cheaper but their quality, durability, colorfasteness and color range is far from what house of kolors, ppg, dupont etc has. Urethanes have a higher solid content and a much more durable resin base than the water based acrylics. With the more durable resins in the paint, it actually provides more UV protection and added oxidation resistance. Water based paints can't do this. Some water based paints might be mixed with ammonia... they just do not have that durability that a urethane does. One area that also helps a urethane is the fact that it doesn't air dry. urethanes harden with a built in catalyst or reducer which resists bleeding making them permanent..not able to change back to their original qualities. Urethanes are not cheap. In pricing out a job I have in the shop right now, one quart of sg 104 euro red HoK comes in at roughly $80 not including reducer.
also, the costs you are missing are of the clearcoat and the primer. Yes, priming is a damn good idea for color correction and durability. With a primer you get the necessary "bite" that the basecoat needs. after sanding out the helmet with around 400-600 grit wet sand paper, you want a coat to fill in any imperfections as well as give the basecoat to start with in terms of color and bite. There are different tints for different primers giving a great base for color. Red over a black primer won't cover as easy will use more material and could throw the color off. Most people in this case would go with a medium grey color tint in their primer. Most mountain bike helmets have graphics already on them when you buy them from the shop. If those graphics are not sanded down they will show through the paintjob. I have seen MANY paintjobs with this mistake.
Clear coats make a big difference as well. Each clear coat w/ catalyst has a different level of float, spring, UV protection, shine and durability as well. the less money you spend, the lower results you get. Look at a maaco paintjob compared to a real auto body shop paintjob. The difference is night and day. Urethane clears naturally bend. Flex additives actually evaporate out once sprayed and do not stay inside the clear. The flexibility of this clear is a direct result of the natural float worked into the composition of the clear coat. Clear coats again, like the basecoats have a hardener/catalyst. This catalyst when mixed with the properties inside the urethane clear actually create their own heat to "dry" or cure as I should say. These clear don't fully "tail off" for a good week or so. Ever been next to a new car a week after it has been painted and you can still smell the paint? that's what it is. the clear is not hardened all the way through and still has that small bit of float for buffing. Essentially when a clear coat is wet sanded and buffed, you are just working the float. Leveling the sprayed clear by sanding and then taking the buffer to the clear with compound to smooth it out even more and work the float in it to create a mirror shine. put your hand on top of a paintjob just after being buffed..it's warm. Different brands have different qualities...some float longer than others, some are more durable than others, some spray out and lay down more even than others. Like anything, you get what you pay for. Figure $150+ for clear.
One quick thing about prep. TAPE!!!! use correct tape!!!! a lot of amateurs completely ignore this. Regular masking tape is not made for heavy duty painting. This junk tape bleeds and leaves behind adhesive. There is special tape made for automotive uses. It does not bleed, there is a stronger bond without pealing paint off and it does not leave adhesive behind. Nothing can ruin a paintjob like left behind adhesive or tape marks.
All this information separates the professional from the amateur painter. Next time you look at Troy Lee Designs, Airtrix, Starline etc. The prices are justified through material cost, experience, artistic talent etc. Don't forget the cost of overhead. There is much more to it than just spraying a color. When you want to get into airbrush art and pinstriping, don't be surprised to see costs around the $100 an hour mark. The costs are there, it's not cheap and it's not as easy as it looks. I have been doing this professionally for 15+ years and if you want information just feel free to shoot me a PM.
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simmer down luke... the kid asked a simple question about how much it cost to get started painting as a HOBBY, and lee answered with an honest answer since he too does it as a hobby, and that is what it costs him to paint helmets... FOR FUN.
i didn't see anything in his question about hiring an artist or leasing warehouse space. just making the next step from a rattle can job to an airbrush job.
anyone with some skill and a bit of spare money can make a pretty awesome helmet without breaking the bank.... look at all the helmets in this thread 95% are amateur jobs that look slick and only cost chump change in materials (aside from investment in spray equipment, etc as lee mentioned)
but you would rather they just pay you right
is it the part about labor being free if you do it yourself that got your panties in a bunch
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He was talking about how much it cost HIM to paint HIS OWN helmet not him doing a professional job for a client. I have see Lee's work and he does a fantastic job on all of them. They may not be showroom worthy on a few of his own but it looks sick from a few feet away.
I definitely respect your professional opinion and it just emphasizes more your quality of work and attention to detail which is great, keep up your great work.
Relax Luke, breathe...
krylon b*tches 
oh I agree the question was just for a hobby. But at the same time education of potential customers, people who want to do it on their own etc. is something of importance. So there are two sides of the coin. When you are making a living off of this type of work and you hear "well so and so can do it for $150" or.. "well material costs are only..." 99% of the time they hear this info from something like this. People really have to see both sides because the high cost of a professional paintjob is justified by material cost, labor and talent. It all depends on what you are looking for I guess. I am not a fan of undercuttingsimmer down luke... the kid asked a simple question about how much it cost to get started painting as a HOBBY, and lee answered with an honest answer since he too does it as a hobby, and that is what it costs him to paint helmets... FOR FUN.
i didn't see anything in his question about hiring an artist or leasing warehouse space. just making the next step from a rattle can job to an airbrush job.
anyone with some skill and a bit of spare money can make a pretty awesome helmet without breaking the bank.... look at all the helmets in this thread 95% are amateur jobs that look slick and only cost chump change in materials (aside from investment in spray equipment, etc as lee mentioned)
but you would rather they just pay you right
Well, so-and-so can build a car from scratch for $800. It might explode after 500 miles, but holy crap is that cheap!oh I agree the question was just for a hobby. But at the same time education of potential customers, people who want to do it on their own etc. is something of importance. So there are two sides of the coin. When you are making a living off of this type of work and you hear "well so and so can do it for $150" or.. "well material costs are only..." 99% of the time they hear this info from something like this. People really have to see both sides because the high cost of a professional paintjob is justified by material cost, labor and talent. It all depends on what you are looking for I guess. I am not a fan of undercutting
lol EXACTLY.
I'm guessing from the lesson on primer, using proper tape, and the properties of urethane clear coat, you just copied and pasted that from somewhere else.
No kidding, water based paints aren't as durable as urethane. but they can be bought in ready to spray condition in 2 to 4oz bottles for anywhere from $7 to $20, rather than buying urethane by the quart for $60-100 and never using 90% of it. and the fact they are non toxic and clean up with water far outweighs their negatives if you are painting a couple helmets a year in your garage. Assuming I already had the airbrush, spray gun, and compressor i could have purchased all the paint for the neon helmet i posted a few weeks ago for $80, figure another $75 for a quart of house of color clear/catalyst/reducer, and another $50 for primer and you get a total of $205. And i could probably paint 10 identical helmets with all that paint and still have half the colors left over so figure $20 each in paint plus $10 a roll for 3M fine line tape, another $10 in masking tape and sandpaper, and a few dollars worth of x-acto knife blades and the total comes in at about $45 worth of actual material used on the helmet.
But if anyone ever asked me to paint them a helmet for $50 they'd be disappointed. Not because of the price but because I probably would tell them to talk to LukeD, JDD, or Pat from Impact Designs. I do it for myself and occasionally for some friends for a few $100 but that's about it. I'd hardly consider that undercutting.
Luke, I assume most people know there is a HUGE difference in the actual cost of materials and what is charged for them.
No kidding, water based paints aren't as durable as urethane. but they can be bought in ready to spray condition in 2 to 4oz bottles for anywhere from $7 to $20, rather than buying urethane by the quart for $60-100 and never using 90% of it. and the fact they are non toxic and clean up with water far outweighs their negatives if you are painting a couple helmets a year in your garage. Assuming I already had the airbrush, spray gun, and compressor i could have purchased all the paint for the neon helmet i posted a few weeks ago for $80, figure another $75 for a quart of house of color clear/catalyst/reducer, and another $50 for primer and you get a total of $205. And i could probably paint 10 identical helmets with all that paint and still have half the colors left over so figure $20 each in paint plus $10 a roll for 3M fine line tape, another $10 in masking tape and sandpaper, and a few dollars worth of x-acto knife blades and the total comes in at about $45 worth of actual material used on the helmet.
But if anyone ever asked me to paint them a helmet for $50 they'd be disappointed. Not because of the price but because I probably would tell them to talk to LukeD, JDD, or Pat from Impact Designs. I do it for myself and occasionally for some friends for a few $100 but that's about it. I'd hardly consider that undercutting.
Luke, I assume most people know there is a HUGE difference in the actual cost of materials and what is charged for them.
lol i did not copy and paste anything and in fact I find that a bit insulting. i might sound like a broken record when it comes to prep, but it's extremely important. But ya, there is a huge difference... however I hope you understand the fact that I had to throw all that out there as well. People see those numbers and immediately think that TLD, me, JDD, Pat, Airtrix etc are way overpriced. When it comes to paintjobs, it's tough to determine quality just looking at something without knowing what it is. putting two side by side it's very easy to tell. People always ask me what justifies the cost of the paint job when I give them the price. Some people understand, some people gawk at it and say they can have so and so from down the street do it for $100. Either way you get what you pay for. However, I believe it is important to show both sides of the coin, which I did. There is definitely a difference when it comes to quality, durability, colorfastness and everything else I mentioned just on the materials side of things. Labor is a whole other can of worms.
Sheesh you guys. For $60 and a visit to a local hippy you could have enough LSD to see the whole trail in neon colors, not just the helmet. And you wouldn't have to mess around with all that messy paint n' sh*t.
I meant copied and pasted from something you'd written elsewhere, as i seem to recall reading some of the same stuff in your posts before. wasn't implying that you copied it from somewhere/someone else.
I'm assuming much of the past few posts were directed for others to read in case they are getting the wrong impression about custom paint work. I think you know me well enough to know how i feel about the importance of prep work, proper tape/materials, and good clear coat. Helmet painting is eff'ing labor intensive if done right and time actually painting probably accounts for less than 10% of all the labor involved. Few people will ever appreciate the fact that you can spend 2 hrs doing the mask work for 5 mintues of painting.
I'm no professional painter; fact. but i'm not using using crappy materials or paint (Impact Designs and a few of the guys who paint for the guys at Orange County Choppers all use the same water-based Autoair paint), nor do i make a habit of giving out bad advice to anyone on here who asks about painting. i read the orignal poster's question to be along the lines of how much money i've invested in painting all the stuff i've posted recently (frame and a couple helmets) and the fact of the matter is that at the moment i can walk into the garage dig into all the paint i've acquired over the years (probably about 25 colors plus various flakes, metalics, candies, etc.) and bang out a job for myself for about $30-50 worth of materials. so i do. but it's a lot like making yourself a nice dinner. I can make a kick ass meal for about $10 on the plate, but i might have as much as $80 of food left over in the fridge. and if i went out to eat that same plate would cost me about $30. Heck, look at what a tattoo costs compared to how expensive the ink is, then consider a helmet can be 10x more work.
If he was asking how much i have invested in painting over the years, well then that number would be in the realm of a couple thousand $$. Heck, i used to have a body shop do the clear coat work for $30 but i didn't like being on their schedule and wanted to be able to spray clear mid-job to protect underlying graphics (and sometimes the finish quality wasn't as good as I'd like) so i decided to do it myself. Just the compressor and spray gun alone cost me $600. And that was keeping in mind that it wouldn't be getting that much use, otherwise it would have been more like a $1000.
btw, Luke is a broken record about prep work for a reason: It's imperrative, it can take a while to do right, it's messy, and it SUCKS!! main reason I don't paint more than 3 or 4 helmets a year is the prep work and the labor involved. Just because painting a helmet solid black requires about 10 minutes of actually spraying black paint doesn't mean it isn't a day long project (or 2).
I think TLD is a bit over the top (at least they used to be), but most of the other guys you listed all charge a lot of money for good reason and it's not the cost of materials that demands that sort of price tag. It's the fact you are paying someone else for a pretty unique skill that very few people have, factor in overhead, design, a huge amount of labor, and the fact that essentailly you are comissioning custom artwork and the cost makes a lot more sense.
If you wanted to do the entire job yourself, assuming you had none of the equipment it would cost you approx $800 just to paint a helmet 1 basic solid color. And i guarantee it would be a disaster.
*edit: and for the record Luke and I have known each other for years, used to race on the same team, and he's someone I ask for advice when i need it. Sorry to disappoint, but this ain;t no e-fight. Where our perspectives differ is that he come at it from the angle of someone who does this for a living and I'm doing much the same thing but simply as a hobby (case in point, I'm sitting at parent/teacher conferences at my real job and I'm bored because I have no meetings schedule for the next 3 hours).
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no e-fight here
Hey Lee, I just sent you a PM to keep this free for more pics, questions etc.
Thank you!:biggrin:no e-fight here
So there you have it!
If your not willing into spending quality time in prepping don't bother at all...
Proper prepping is the base of a quality paintjob.
The difference between so-so or ace!!!
Quality goes a long way...
But then again a noob won't notice the difference, only in his wallet.
@ Luke D. let it slide man.
I'm with Luke on this one as I also deal with questions about why airbrushing costs what it does.
The only thing I strongly disagree on is his comments on Auto Air paints. I use them exclusively and for good reason. They are incredible very high quality paints that have excellent color choices, special effects, flakes,pearls ect and are very light fast.
There's a long list of pros who use Auto Air Colors because of the quality and ease of use. No time windows to work within like urethanes and especially when it comes to clear coating. I can work on my paint jobs as time allows and clear any time after the painting is completed with no problems.
OK, rant over! lol
Luke, your work rocks and you deserve every penny of whatever you charge.
The only thing I strongly disagree on is his comments on Auto Air paints. I use them exclusively and for good reason. They are incredible very high quality paints that have excellent color choices, special effects, flakes,pearls ect and are very light fast.
There's a long list of pros who use Auto Air Colors because of the quality and ease of use. No time windows to work within like urethanes and especially when it comes to clear coating. I can work on my paint jobs as time allows and clear any time after the painting is completed with no problems.
OK, rant over! lol
Luke, your work rocks and you deserve every penny of whatever you charge.
I am using the Auto Air paints on my helmet. We will see how it goes. Paint will start once the WC is over.
As long as your prep is done correctly and you spray light coats you should have no problems using Auto Air Colors. The problems arise when users forget to scuff the surface before applying their base coat and they will try to get full coverage in one coat when it should happen in three lighter ones.
I highly recommend the new Auto-Borne paints from Createx. They contain some solvent and atomize even better than the Auto Air Colors. when reduced with 4011 reducer they spray exceptionally well and dry fast also!
I highly recommend the new Auto-Borne paints from Createx. They contain some solvent and atomize even better than the Auto Air Colors. when reduced with 4011 reducer they spray exceptionally well and dry fast also!
I've had this little number painted up for a while, it's my older D2 that I don't wear as often since I purchased a carbon one. A buddy's girlfriend wanted to get into it, so I traded her out some graphic design work in exchange for her painting my helmet, I just paid for the paint. She did a pretty nice job for her 3rd helmet ever, I'm stoked.
Can anyone post up some advice for doing helmets with the Autoair paints? I have an airbrush setup, just need to figure out the proper paints/ catalysts/ clearcoats...
They say to mix the autoair's 3 parts paint to 1 part thinner for the airbrush. The guy at my local auto paint store told me that there 4011 reducer is nothing more then distilled water. They are a dealer of the stuff so save your money and go to the local drug store and get it for .99 a gallon.
i don't thin it at all. Well, not unless i have a specific reason too anyway.
All Auto Air Colors should be reduced using the 4011 series reducer and I can assure you that it is not just distilled water! The new reducer contains some solvent and also a tiny amount of glycerine to help reduce tip dry.
The amount of reduction depends on the size of your airbrush tip and paint type. Semi-Opaques require the most reduction and the transparent colors only a little.
The reducer helps atomize the paints better and also helps speed up drying times.
If you have any specific questions email craig@autoaircolors.com and tell him Mike Bromelow sent you. Thanks.
Auto Air Colors are compatible with all urethane clears and there are no time windows to worry about from your finished paint to the time you clear.
full trucker: The paint job came out pretty impressive. i'm digging the poo-poo color! Maybe your friend can make some side $$, I would send her mines to do!
Ah yes the poo-poo! Total Boogie Van style, yo. She also dusted it lightly with the gold, so it's really deep in person and kinda shimmery/glittery. My camera skillz didn't pick up on some of the more intricate details like that...
I just figured you drove for UPS...
Tyler Morland's new lid. Pretty cool.
