[dhkid]

not sure about you guys, there have been such huge advancements in the recent past. ie, platform shox, low/high speed compression even rebound. four bar linkages air dh forks, shox. dont seem like there is much left to do. a good example is santa cruz with vpp. they got a bike for nearly everything and anything. so all they got left is to refine? lighter stronger ect? dont seem like anything drasticly different is going to happen?
not cool.

 

[zaphod1]

well just look around its not just bikes everything is like that "ALL THE GOOD IDEAS ARE ALLREADY BEEN USED-Pump up the Volume Christian Slater"the auto industry is the same way now all the cars are retro just have to wait for the next visionary i guess

 

[shock]

Ha, don't worry about that. Everything can and will be improved. For example, platform shocks will go away, thereby improving suspension.

More clever suspension desingns, internal gearing, new materials, new wheel and hub designs, better shocks.

There's always room for improvement, as long as creative, passionate people are working on things.....

 

[SuspectDevice]

Ha, don't worry about that. Everything can and will be improved. For example, platform shocks will go away, thereby improving suspension.

More clever suspension desingns, internal gearing, new materials, new wheel and hub designs, better shocks.

There's always room for improvement, as long as creative, passionate people are working on things.....

Exactly.

 

[bballe336]

Ha, don't worry about that. Everything can and will be improved. For example, platform shocks will go away, thereby improving suspension.

More clever suspension desingns, internal gearing, new materials, new wheel and hub designs, better shocks.

There's always room for improvement, as long as creative, passionate people are working on things.....

I agree with pretty much everything you said. But platform rear suspension is fine with me. I think what manitou is doing with the intrinsic damping is great. A less noticeable platform that can be blown open very easily.

 

[sayndesyn]

Things will eventually go the way of the gearbox, but it will be awhile. That will be a huge step. I'm waiting for Ohlins to start making forks someday. drool..

 

[zedro]

i forget who (he was famous), but in the 1900's he claimed that the patent office would soon be obsolete because just about everything has been invented and thought of.

Then in the 60s IBM predicted the world would probably only need about a few dozen computers.

In the 80's Bill Gates said there would be no need for more memory than the core 640Kb

Now theres you. :redX:

 

[dw]

I know that I still have a bit to share...

 

[dhkid]

all valid points. gear boxes are going to come in to play. but how about something like suspension design, taking the shox totally out of the equation. i would say that the dw-link is the best suspension design around, it came out just a few years ago. where does it go from there? sure it would be refined, frame design would change with gear boxes. oh yea, that would be a drastic change of how suspension would work to. woops. but i still think the boom when four bar suspension (all the way from frs/ict to vpp/dw-link/maestro) came into the picture was/is huge. and right now i dont see anything close to what happened there, maybe this year is just a dead year. look at ellsworth, they have a bike by half in increasments in wheel travel (nearly) another **** one is shimano carbon copieng sram.

 

[BKQuill]

something better will come around, I promise!

 

[zedro]

i would say that the dw-link is the best suspension design around, it came out just a few years ago. where does it go from there?

obviously nowhere. In fact it's rumored that people have stopped designing bikes all together after that because they felt, whats the point? first water, then bread, now....

 

[sanjuro]

Many of the advancements the bike industry sees are trickle-downs from the aerospace and auto industry. We might see 30 lb dh bikes or 8 inch travel XC bikes in the future.

There might be some stability in the next few years (unless Shimano has their way), but changes are still coming.

 

[patineto]

I also agree the future will bring inovations, refinements and many other marvelous things in fact i can not wait for some of them, but I also remenber a few years back (even early 90's aka about 10 years ago) when you chose to buy a mountain bike and you have A Lot Less choices to make, you know Brand (LEgendary Brands Like Fat chance, the Old Yeti's, the real bontragers or even stumjumpers) level of quality material of choice (steel or alumium what was it. pretty much) componets (hell we were happy if we have Air on the tyres, so you can ride),, etc.
but we did Downhil (slow to today standards for sure) commuting, ADVenture rides, Crosery shopping, Touring, trials, cross country racing all with the same bike, today the bikes are far more sofisticated but also with a Much narrow focus, materials selection is somehow pointless since you can get a very rigid frame to be plush with the right amount of suspension, just look at the Ultra stiff cannondale road bikes with the headshock to make them more compliat (Yeah is that Stupid for mountain bike too), when in the old days careful tube selection give you the best compromise of longetive, handleling, mass distribution, riding caracteristics , etc...

I think all this confussing parameters and compromises somehow discorage many new costumers from the require comitment since they are not what you call educated about the choices and reason why they keep buying the same old brands that they see for years (Corporate Trek, cannondale Garbage, etc) even if they provide far less of a machine than the small independent companies..

well hopefully you get my Point..
I think the process of bike Purchase got so complicated and the choices became so many it harm the mountain bike industry in a very big way but also give a bust of energy to the road bike industry were somehow the old and simpler rules still apply....

just remenber a industry with out a costumer base is bound to dye sonner or later since with out money for reseach products become stagnet and somehow the development stops..

I'm not exactlly saying that is the case today , but I do have a good memory of how much stronger the mountainbike industry was a few years back and I some how thing this Full suspension narrow single Porpuse machines (Freeride, downhill, trail, X4, Confort,,,all that crap) got the costumers all confusse in the same way that happend to me when I go to purchase a new phone or aything i don't know much about and I get totally overwelm by the incredible amount of "Narrow porpuse" choices that I end up walking away from the shop and buying whatever I can find on a garage sale for cheap (Old, used, but something more multy functional)

just my opinion of course

 

[LetThemEatWar]

Even if it were "as good as its gonna get" which its not.. you'd have to do what everyone else does in most forms of auto racing, be the first to learn new ways of going faster.

 

[dante]

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

--Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899




I'm still holding out for hoverbikes...

 

[zedro]

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

--Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899




I'm still holding out for hoverbikes...

ahh thats the one. What a tool....it does explain the US patent office tho...

 

[thaflyinfatman]

The most obvious place where growth and innovation APPEARS to stagnate would have to be F1 racing. You see every year, the cars look almost the same as the previous year, the engines are much the same in terms of power output, they don't actually go any faster or corner any harder, and they actually seem to keep going backwards in terms of speed cos every year they have new rules that screw around with their engine sizes, intakes, aerodynamics, tyres, how long they can/must use stuff for, etc, all designed specifically to SLOW THE CARS DOWN.

Then you notice that every year they still go a little bit faster and break lap records etc etc. A couple of years ago they decreased the allowable wing planform area by 25% (I think that's what it was, anyway it was a huge decrease)... but by the START of the next season, Ferrari's engineers had recovered 80% of the downforce that they'd lost with very little increase in drag. When they made tyres narrower and with compulsory grooves to reduce the amount of contact area they had? Still broke plenty of lap records that year. Now they have V8 engines instead of V10s, with 80% of their previous capacity to boot. Their engine tuning just stepped up a notch however, and now they've already going nearly as fast as they were beforehand! If the F1 rules and regs were still the same as they were in say 1980, we would be looking at serious 450km/h monsters with enough cornering force to literally render the driver unconscious, as well as enough braking force to just about break your ribs as you get crushed into the safety harness. Not only that, it would be impossible to break traction in the car in any way as launch control, *real* ABS (not the crap you find in road cars) and computer-managed cornering traction monitors would prevent you doing so. (Oh and people would get killed all the time as the side skirts of their venturis broke seal )

The moral of the story is: progress never stops. Just because you can't think of something new to bring to the table, doesn't mean that nobody else can. Small refinements and changes make big differences in the long run.

 

[binary visions]

The moral of the story is: progress never stops. Just because you can't think of something new to bring to the table, doesn't mean that nobody else can.

Yep, that's the key.

Simply not being able to envision the next great thing doesn't mean that nobody else has an idea or two...

 

[zedro]

If the F1 rules and regs were still the same as they were in say 1980, we would be looking at serious 450km/h monsters with enough cornering force to literally render the driver unconscious, as well as enough braking force to just about break your ribs as you get crushed into the safety harness.

yeah, F1 racing is no fun at all anymore

 

[stiksandstones]

all I can say is...

Purple anodized skewers are coming back, ya heard!

 

[luelling]

Yeti came out with the 303 design...I haven't ridden so can't say much other than its a completely different suspension design. Who would have thought of sliding on a rail instead of using traditional pivots would be the way to go? I think there is still a lot of stuff that could come out...I can't think of any but I'm sure someone will bring something to the table that will make all of us go "damn, why didn't I think of that?"

 

[Superdeft]

As long as there are annoying things about bikes and riding, like heavy parts, flat tires, skipping suspension, parts that break, shifting that sucks, and tires that wear out, there will be people out there engineering the future of the equipment. New stuff will do the same jobs faster, longer, cheaper, and with less weight.

 

[bomberboy11]

I'm with luelling on the Yeti thing. That step is a sign of true innovation is opens a lot of opportunities and ideas to be explored.

 

[Zutroy]

all I can say is...

Purple anodized skewers are coming back, ya heard!

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, now if someone could just figure out how to get Peace hangers to work with discs I'll be set.

 

[ragin-sagin]

Room for improvement all over a bike...look at the size of the master cylinder on my shimano hydro levers, cassettes weigh like half a pound, thru axles can be a pain...room for minor improvement all over the place. Think of all the small stuff the last few years, external bb bearings, i-beam seats, its small innovations that keep the industry fresh till the next BIG change happens. If only I knew what that next big change would be...

 

[bballe336]

Room for improvement all over a bike...look at the size of the master cylinder on my shimano hydro levers, cassettes weigh like half a pound, thru axles can be a pain...room for minor improvement all over the place. Think of all the small stuff the last few years, external bb bearings, i-beam seats, its small innovations that keep the industry fresh till the next BIG change happens. If only I knew what that next big change would be...

A long travel bike with no set wheelpath that can run with only one shock. I am sure someone will figure out how to do it. I imagine that would be the next big thing. Either that or peace sign rotors.

 

[D_D]

New stuff will do the same jobs faster, longer, cheaper, and with less weight.

Or it will just be different, solve some problems but have a host of new problems, cost the same and perhaps be a little lighter. The bike industry is great at coming up with new flashy products every couple of years that don't really solve any problems.

Look at the square taper -> isis -> external bb mess for an example.

 

[deweydude]

I don't care what technoligy does, there is and always will be room fior improovement !

And thats all I got to say about that

 

[OGRipper]

Innovation will never stop.

Print out your post, put it somewhere safe, then read it again in 10 years.

 

[dhpimp]

The bike industry is great at coming up with new flashy products every couple of years that don't really solve any problems.

Look at the square taper -> isis -> external bb mess for an example.

That's a pretty bad example. If you think about it, the external bearings make sense. As Mountain Biking progresses forward and riders push the limits, the industry as a whole must make parts to keep up with this. I.e: Would you run a pair of square taper Kooka cranks on your Intense M3 race rig? I think not. I would never take a run down Freight Train @ Whistler with my DH bike from 1996. No way in hell!

There doesn't even need to be demand for a product, just an idea or someone saying "I think this could be more simple" - i.e: Maxle, DH Air shocks, 6.5" travel XC bikes (Scott Ransom) or Centerlock rotors. There was no real call for Centerlock rotors, but if those things came out at the same time as 6 bolt, most of us would be riding Center Lock (If you disagree with this please start a new thread and lets keep this one about the industrys innovations).

If you want to see new products, you have to be open to change. I.e: the one thing that limits ALL engineers is the bicycle frame. If you could change it to suit your needs, then new products would be rampant. Bottom Bracket sizing and rear hub spacing are two huge limiting factors.

That being said, most people don't like change. Look at what most people thing of Shimano's Dual Control lever. What about when Campag and Shimano come out with Electronic shifting in 2008. Most (not all) road riders will be leary to try it.

rant over.

 

[dhpimp]

all I can say is...

Purple anodized skewers are coming back, ya heard!

Did you hear that Chris King jumped on the band wagon and is making Purple anodized headsets!!

 

[lovebunny]

Look at the square taper -> isis -> external bb mess for an example.

well people were having problems with square taper stripping so they made isis. people were bloing bearings on isis so they made external. and the external is best of both worlds

 

[lankyride]

I think that as long as some one can complain about how something works there will be innovation. i have noticed the innovation on this forum. Three years ago if i posted a thread about my DH bike weighing only 39 pounds EVERY ONE would have laughed at me and told me I was crazy. I read an interview with a pro DH racer and he was asked a question similar to the origional post and his response was he thought we would see the industry focusing on lighter faster wheel components.
Personally I think that there is still a lot of room for improvement when it comes to rear suspension design, and lateral rigidity.

 

[luelling]

I think an area that could come up (and has with pro teams in the past) is electronic feedback on suspension. Sunn had it (and Streb purchased a system when with Yeti) and they were able to get feedback to a laptop on how the bike was performing and then tune the suspension specifically. I was talking with a friend the other day and in reality I bet 60% (maybe more) of riders don't have their platform shocks tuned correctly. I think help in setting up the current technology could be a pretty big step.

 

[Rye_Bread]

if what you said in the first post is true, then this is very exciting. The equipment we need finally exists, now its time for riders to do what we can. Look at skiing for example, skis aren't really changing anymore, but skiers are pushing the limits of what is physically possible. Skiers are going off cliffs so big they hit terminal velocity.

 

[Bicyclist]

I think an area that could come up (and has with pro teams in the past) is electronic feedback on suspension. Sunn had it (and Streb purchased a system when with Yeti) and they were able to get feedback to a laptop on how the bike was performing and then tune the suspension specifically. I was talking with a friend the other day and in reality I bet 60% (maybe more) of riders don't have their platform shocks tuned correctly. I think help in setting up the current technology could be a pretty big step.

Exactly. We have the physical technology but now we need the setup technology. Data aquisition will be a big step.

 

[luelling]

if what you said in the first post is true, then this is very exciting. The equipment we need finally exists, now its time for riders to do what we can. Look at skiing for example, skis aren't really changing anymore, but skiers are pushing the limits of what is physically possible. Skiers are going off cliffs so big they hit terminal velocity.

You have to consider there is a lot less to a snowboard to ski though. There are thousands of moving parts in a bicycle (especially downhill). I think we are far from seeing what is truly possible. I read an interview with an old software engineer with respect to the internet (hes an analyst now for internet companies) and he estimated that about 2% of what is possible has been invented with respect to the Internet. I kinda feel the same about bikes, but I feel like its more like 55% has been invented......unless we do something drastic and switch to belt drive, internally geared, and maybe a different form for providing power (not two cranks, maybe some push pedals ).

 

[luelling]

Exactly. We have the physical technology but now we need the setup technology. Data aquisition will be a big step.

Knowledge is the key in any endeavor

 

[RaID]

magnetic suspension

but definately what id like to see first to come out soon would
be a internal gearbox drivetrain with rapid fire type shifting.

 

[maddogdh]

something better will come around, I promise!

Boy! she's got a thin waist