[mplutodh1]

Alright, after listening to local talk radio yesterday on my way up to get my books for this quarter I was listening to the latest news on the primaries and just about peed my pants laughing. Dean is now bringing in Jesus Christ to his campaign.

Funny how he does this right before the primaries in southern states.

I just hope the moron wins primaries and goes against Bush, makes it even easier for Bush to get re-elected.

With that said I know a ton of people are gonna jump on me and tell me how Bush is "the worst president ever" but I challenge you, give me an example of how so?

Whatever, I typically avoid this forum just because I know I will get frustrated but I just couldn't believe the latest news about Dean.

 

[TCoop924]

What'd Dean say? And, yeah, Bush is the worst president....EVER

 

[mplutodh1]

Howard Dean Gets Religion

Presidential candidate Howard B. Dean has described himself in a recent interview with the Bosten Globe as a committed believer in Jesus Christ, noting that he will include more references to Jesus and God in his upcoming stump speeches.

According to the Globe report, Dean is a Congregationalist whose wife and children are Jewish.

"Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised, people who were left behind," Dean told the Globe. "He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything. ... He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

Perhaps indicative of Dean's new emphasis, said the Globe report, was an appearance at an African-American church in Columbia, S.C.

"In this house of the Lord, we know that the power rests in God's hands and in Jesus' hands for helping us. But the power also is on this, God's earth – Remember Jesus said, 'Render unto God those things that are God's but unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's.'"

Dean continued: "In this political season there is also other power. Not as important or as strong as the power of Jesus but its important power in the world of politics and the world of Caesar."

Dean told the Globe that religion was a private matter for him while growing up:

"My father used to tell us how much strength he got from religion, but we didn't have Bible readings. There are traditions where people do that. We didn't," he said. "People in the Northeast don't talk about their religion. It's a very personal private matter, and that's the tradition I was brought up in."

Dean added: "I don't get offended when George Bush or Joe Lieberman talk about their religion. ... I have a feeling it has something to do with them as a human being, and they are entitled to talk about what makes them human."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/26/140152.shtml

I am sorry but as mentioned by the talk show host, Dean is basically stating that he shares the same political agenda as Christ does... "Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised, people who were left behind," He is obviously talking about how HE too was left out and is catering to those who feel left out.

As for Bush... sorry but he has done a lot for both conservatives and liberals. Just no one opens there eyes to this.

 

[brock]

What talk radio host were you listening too?

Oh yeah. You are right about one thing. Dean IS a Moron.


Bush on the other hand is an evil fvcker.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Originally posted by mplutodh1

With that said I know a ton of people are gonna jump on me and tell me how Bush is "the worst president ever" but I challenge you, give me an example of how so?

Whatever, I typically avoid this forum just because I know I will get frustrated but I just couldn't believe the latest news about Dean.

How about the fact that he's a drooling idiot? Have you ever watched a press conference where reporters are asking him questions? He can't even answer a freakin question. In response to a specific question he will bust out a pre-programmed response that often has nothing to do with the question. It's embarrasing to watch him. I'm not a democrat but I'd rather see a democrat in office if it meant the president would have an IQ above 100.

Bush is a laughing stock. He's not the caliber person that we should have running the most powerful nation on Earth.

 

[brock]

I couldn't detect any bias on that newsmax site.

 

[mplutodh1]

Originally posted by brock
I couldn't detect any bias on that newsmax site.

There isnt any, i just found that to show what he said, a few quotes. I dont remember exact quotes from the news radio I was in a car and havent found it online. Just stating what I heard pissed me off.

Ridemonkey, as for your arguement about Bush being a laughing stock. What I don't get is everyone wants these idiots who talk the talk in office but can't walk the walk. Hey I will admit it Bush can't speak WORTH CRAP. But does that mean hes not a good president. Sorry man but come up with something better than that. You put just about anyone, including you and I in his shoes, in front of all those cameras, all those questions, fingers pointing at you and tell me if you are going to have a perfect answer everytime, or heck even a few times.

Again it all comes back to the fact that almost all of the folks who tell me Bush is the worst president we have had can never give me hard facts other than things that just bug them, rather than proving his ability to lead this country.

 

[brock]

Originally posted by mplutodh1
There isnt any

Please go to the home page of that site. Click on any one of the pundits they feature right at the top. Read any of the titles of their columns.

Right below that there is an ad from the christian book club featuring Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity's books.

Please say again that there is no bias on that site.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Originally posted by mplutodh1

Again it all comes back to the fact that almost all of the folks who tell me Bush is the worst president we have had can never give me hard facts other than things that just bug them, rather than proving his ability to lead this country.

Ok fine. I think his environmental policy is crap. He's selling out future generations quality of life. And since 9/11 he hasn't done one thing to encourage the citizens of this country to conserve energy so we aren't so dependent on foreign sources.

Thats the real issue. We should be able to say **** YOU MIDDLE EAST! and never have to deal with that messed up place - but we can't because without the oil we'd be in bad shape. So our young people will go on dying so Bush's oil buddies can continue to profit from America's insatiable thirst for oil.

What I want to see is some common sense in the White House for a change. Bush isn't it, and Dean sure as hell isn't either. Nobody is willing to step up and do what's right because they know they will be going against popular opinion, corporate America, and all the powers that be.

Well then I guess that leaves Sideways, with his in-your-face ****-you-if-you-don't-like-it politics that do nothing but piss people off and divide us even further. So much for education, solidarity, and sympathy for your fellow man.

Which brings us back to the original problem: never in our time have we needed a truly strong leader, someone who could take the bull by the horns, throw out the BS, and really unite this country for positive change.

I'm not even sure such a man exists anymore.

 

[mplutodh1]

Originally posted by brock
Please go to the home page of that site. Click on any one of the pundits they feature right at the top. Read any of the titles of their columns.

Right below that there is an ad from the christian book club featuring Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity's books.

Please say again that there is no bias on that site.

alright whatever, chill I just found the quotes, the article doesnt really matter to me, I didn't even read it, just read the quotes. And I am sorry they are quotes, he said it... so don't see why it makes any difference. Anyone else is more than welcome to search the net for his quotes or his full speach whatever they want, I am not going to sit here and do hw for everyone. Just stating that he is a moron and bringing in religion when he has not mentioned it for well over a year in his campaign, right before he goes to the southern states for primaries, is a cheap move, and just laughable.

 

[HippieKai]

um....about Bush being an idiot!
Before this whole war thing happend and we needed to go get Sadam....we could have walked over and grabbed him. The reason for blowin crap up was so that Bush could play war with the world.

I understand your wanting HARD FACTS about Bush being bad....but try and give me HARD FACT about him doing anything good!

And besides....i would rather see a strong minded person in office (neither Dean or Bush) rather than a puppet like Bush is.

If the American people want a strong leader....we should vote for one of the dudes that has less money and a brighter mind than one of the "rich daddy's boys that Bush and Dean are.

 

[Silver]

I really hate it when candidates do this. They all do it, and it drives me up the fvcking wall. They all seem to find God, and they all do it just for the votes.

Does anyone truly believe Bush is a Christian...in that he follows the teachings of Jesus Christ? He's got the evildoer **** down pat, but he seems to have forgotten the bulk of Christ's message, especially on social policy.

I long for the day that we can get to point where we can elect someone and not care if he/she isn't "our" religion. I don't care what invisible man a candidate believes in, and I sure as hell don't want said candidate appealing to his invisible friend as a matter of policy.

 

[mplutodh1]

Originally posted by Mag204
um....about Bush being an idiot!
Before this whole war thing happend and we needed to go get Sadam....we could have walked over and grabbed him. The reason for blowin crap up was so that Bush could play war with the world.

I understand your wanting HARD FACTS about Bush being bad....but try and give me HARD FACT about him doing anything good!

Fair enough, although I was hoping this post wouldnt get side tracked like a lot do, and become a bush bashing post. Yes I agree, Bush isnt the greatest President. And no I dont have hard facts on how hes done anything good, but honestly that doesn't matter, I am not saying he is the best President nor a great one. I just think in this coming election hes our best option. No good facts on "bad things" he has done and maybe not even good things he has done. But if you put Dean in, we are screwed and I honestly dont see any other candidate changing.

Politicians are a bunch of idiots anyways, we just get to pick from a batch of morons who we think is the least harmful to our nation.

As for going into Iraq before the war started and just pick him up, yeah we probably could have, the problem is then we have a bunch of his followers who will martyr(sp?) him and come after us. Eventually leading to combat either there or in another location.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Now, I agree that Dean is a MORON, first and foremost. F***, I hate anyone that'll wear a GreenBay Packers hat for any reason...but especially just for votes. But the point is, he's more of an idiot than Bush.

While I agree that Bush isnt my #1 pick for president in the world (see John McCain) I really think he's the best VIABLE option we have. The Dems right now dont even stand for anything....it's all just anti-bush, and while that might swing the people who are already anti bush, or on the fence. Its not going to win an election...not even close. Show me a man who stands for something he believes in, and I'll at leaast consider it. Ralph Nader stands for selling books...and that's it.

What are some good things Bush has done?

1. Put an end to the slaughter of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of innocent civilians in Iraq. *whether or not that was his main reason, it's certainly still a good thing.

2. Beefed up the military. *never have we been so effective. quality of life for servicemembers has improved 10fold.

3. Questioned Affirmative Action at a high level. *Some of you say a republican is a republican, but it was Reagonomics that put this whole thing into place, correct? Jesse Jackson was against it at the time, but that's another issue altogeher. This tells me Bush leads with a conscience, and not just a fat wallet on his mind.

4. Has pledged Govt. money to the advancement of the Hydrogen engine. *ridemonkey, you should like this one. certainly a big step for not only helping the environment, but also severing our money ties with the mid-east.

5. Led the country through Sept. 11 the right way...and struck back viciously at the heart of the enemy. *sure, there are and were problems, but IMO he took the best possible option.


Look, I know alot of this stuff is very involved and still open to conflict, but i see them all as steps in the right direction that dont tie Bush to any scandals of greed. IT just seems the right thing to do to him.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by BurlySurly

1. Put an end to the slaughter of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of innocent civilians in Iraq. *whether or not that was his main reason, it's certainly still a good thing.

2. Beefed up the military. *never have we been so effective. quality of life for servicemembers has improved 10fold.

3. Questioned Affirmative Action at a high level. *Some of you say a republican is a republican, but it was Reagonomics that put this whole thing into place, correct? Jesse Jackson was against it at the time, but that's another issue altogeher. This tells me Bush leads with a conscience, and not just a fat wallet on his mind.

4. Has pledged Govt. money to the advancement of the Hydrogen engine. *ridemonkey, you should like this one. certainly a big step for not only helping the environment, but also severing our money ties with the mid-east.

5. Led the country through Sept. 11 the right way...and struck back viciously at the heart of the enemy. *sure, there are and were problems, but IMO he took the best possible option.

1. It's a good thing. If he can keep the country from fragmenting into civil war that kills hundreds of thousands more, I'll give him some credit. Looks to me like he never got past the invasion plans.

2. Don't know much about this one, but one question: How much of those tax cuts are service members seeing?

3. Disengenious at best for a man who would be lucky to be a janitor if he had been born a different color and to a father not named George Bush. Apparently affirmative action is wrong, but nepotism and legacy admissions are a-ok!

4. Also wants his energy bill to start the drilling in Alaska. Hasn't done anything to tighten CAFE standards. Spending will be miniscule compared to his other spending. ($240 Million a year. Tighten CAFE standards high enough, and the industry would have done the spending for you.)

5. After September 11, there was tremendous goodwill toward America. Bush pissed on every country in the world that didn't agree with him on Iraq. Diverted troops from looking for Osama to Iraq. Created the largest government agency in 50 years to come up with a color scheme.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Silver
1. It's a good thing.

2. Don't know much

3. Disengenious

4. Also wants

5. After September 11

Yawn: Like, I said, eachof these topics could be a debate in itself, but it was asked to show "some good things" Bush has done, and IMO, those are good. I didnt want mention things like the economy's recent upswing because i couldnt relate it directly to Bush, but like it or not, he's not done a half bad job of keeping the gagglerape of a country together.

 

[Jeremy R]

I don't want to get into this debate, but would just like to point out, Dean can blow all the smoke he wants to about religion, in
the state of SC (where I live) and it will not a make a difference.
Dean could walk down the streets with Jesus standing on his shoulders, and Bush will still win here. He is wasting campaign time. It would be like Bush campaigning in Vermont.

Oh yeah, and hating Dean or Bush because their were born rich is dumb. They can't help that anymore than Lyle Lovett being born ugly.

 

[$tinkle]

i'm not so sure i'd put Dr. dean in moron status. He's got serious road rage on par with Wes Clark, however. Just waiting for him to up the cussing bar once his shoo-in nomination becomes threatened.

He does shoot from the hip a bit more than what's useful, however. Either way, he's entertaining to watch & read.

I believe he bit off more than he can chew by trying to pimp-slap Terry McAuliffe into getting his rivals to back off their attacks. Yeah, i guess he's all for DNC unity as long as he's in charge(?)

New York Times (last week)
Though Dr. Dean has repeatedly said he would back whichever Democrat wins the nomination, he said Sunday that support was "not transferable anymore" and that endorsements, including his own, "don't guarantee anything."

"Right now those guys think we're the front-runner, so they're saying all this stuff, 'He can't win,' " Dr. Dean said. "How are they going to win?

 

[golgiaparatus]

I think they are all idiots with the exception of Kucinich... but he'll never make it to the primaries, I think Dean has it in the bag, so once again we'll have two dolts to choose from

May the dolt with the most $$ and the best connections win :angry:

 

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by Silver
Does anyone truly believe Bush is a Christian...in that he follows the teachings of Jesus Christ? He's got the evildoer **** down pat, but he seems to have forgotten the bulk of Christ's message, especially on social policy.

I'm curious what social policies of Jesus do you think that GW has forgotten?

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
I'm curious what social policies of Jesus do you think that GW has forgotten?

Taking care of the poor, for one. Jesus was pretty big on that, if I recall correctly. That whole rich man and camel and needle thing...

Read the beatitudes. Bush ain't a peacemaker, he ain't meek, and he sure as hell doesn't show mercy, unless you believe that executing retarded people is merciful. Jesus also seemed to have a much different attitude toward property than George Bush has (I'm sure Jesus's solution to every economic situation wouldn't have been tax cuts, but that doesn't make Jesus unique. You don't need to be the son of God to figure out that is bad economic policy.)

If George Bush was really a Christian, the GOP would have crucified him a long long time ago. They can't afford to have someone like that in power.

 

[N8 v2.0]

..yep... Dean IS a moron...

Agreed

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by N8
..yep... Dean IS a moron...

Agreed

I'd go with "douche" over moron. He's a smart fella... but not the smoothest of cats. The "whole filter the words/idea before you say them" thing is kind of lost on him.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by Silver
Taking care of the poor, for one. Jesus was pretty big on that, if I recall correctly. That whole rich man and camel and needle thing...

Read the beatitudes. Bush ain't a peacemaker, he ain't meek, and he sure as hell doesn't show mercy, unless you believe that executing retarded people is merciful. Jesus also seemed to have a much different attitude toward property than George Bush has (I'm sure Jesus's solution to every economic situation wouldn't have been tax cuts, but that doesn't make Jesus unique. You don't need to be the son of God to figure out that is bad economic policy.)

If George Bush was really a Christian, the GOP would have crucified him a long long time ago. They can't afford to have someone like that in power.

Jesus really didn't make much mention about taking care of the poor. Usually in the Scriptures when He met with the poor and sick, He addressed their spiritual needs rather than their physical needs. John the Baptist does, however, mention that "those who have 2 tunics should give to those who have none". I totally agree with that philosophy, one thing to remember is that no where does Jesus indicate the government is to “take care” of the poor. If you read the New Testament, you’ll find all these “one another” (about 50 of them) statements, on how Christians are suppose to live with and take care of each other, and those that live around us. No where do any of those “one another’s” indicate that the government is responsible for that stuff. Those statements do, however, place that responsibility squarely on the local body of believers. If President Bush is an active member of a church (body of believers, community of believers…whatever) that takes it’s responsibility to the surrounding community seriously, Biblically he’s doing what he should, regarding the poor.

The whole rich man and the camel going through the eye of the needle, keep reading that passage into Luke chapter 19, it describes a wealthy man (as evangelical Christians put it) getting saved. So the assumption and wealth and Christianity are not compatible is not Biblical, the real issue (for the Christian) is what do you do with that wealth.

As for the Beatitudes, that whole “peacemaker” thing, most people when they read the Scriptures take out of context. The first century Hebrew meaning of the word peace (Shalom) had nothing to do with, as we western thinkers define peace, the absence of conflict. Shalom is walking in harmony and wholeness with God, so Jesus is talking about those who partner with God to help restore things as to how He originally intended them to be. Read Matthew 10:34, Jesus talks about bringing and sword and not peace (absence of conflict here).

As for the mercy thing, I do not know the details of the case you are referring to, but Jesus also talks about how we are to be subject to the laws of the land. If we break those laws, even though God has forgiven us (Christians) of the disobedience, there is still earthly consequences (that’s a word people don’t like to hear in this society).

As for Jesus’ attitude on property, He had none. Does that mean that as Christians we shouldn’t own property? Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimatheia were both wealthy men, but both were considered disciples (in the context of being followers of Him, not one of the “12”) of Jesus. It was because of their financial resources that Jesus was able to be prepared for burial and buried so quickly the day he was crucified.

I think it’s interesting that to hear someone “rail” on Bush for not “being Christian enough”, most of his detractors rail on him because he is a Christian.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
So the assumption and wealth and Christianity are not compatible is not Biblical, the real issue (for the Christian) is what do you do with that wealth.

agreed; malachi 3:10 speaks directly to the rewards of faithful tithing:

"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it."

Originally posted by Andyman_1970

As for the mercy thing, I do not know the details of the case you are referring to, but Jesus also talks about how we are to be subject to the laws of the land. If we break those laws, even though God has forgiven us (Christians) of the disobedience, there is still earthly consequences (that’s a word people don’t like to hear in this society).

recall how to respond to those who are "at your mercy":

"Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
I think it’s interesting that to hear someone “rail” on Bush for not “being Christian enough”, most of his detractors rail on him because he is a Christian.

blessed if he do, damned if he don't.

 

[CRUM]

Originally posted by mplutodh1

Politicians are a bunch of idiots anyways, we just get to pick from a batch of morons who we think is the least harmful to our nation.

Now, you're catching on. Pitiful situation, but there it is.

As for going into Iraq before the war started and just pick him up, yeah we probably could have, the problem is then we have a bunch of his followers who will martyr(sp?) him and come after us. Eventually leading to combat either there or in another location.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that what is happening anyway?