If capitol punishment (state sanctioned killing) is wrong, is abortion wrong too?
Discuss.
Discuss.
Death Penalty = Abortion?
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I think it should be clear by now that everybody and everything is wrong. Utterly and completely wrong. I know I am.
Bringing an unwanted child into the world is worse.
Eeeesh. It's too early for me to be in the Political Forum. But since I've said it before
I don't think anyone has the right to take another human life.
Now chickens on the other hand they's tasty.
Now chickens on the other hand they's tasty.
Abortion- We need more of them. Too many unwanted kids are born in this country. Today's "project baby", is tommorow's criminal.
Death Penalty- All for it, but...I have ZERO faith in the "justice system". I think ALL cases should use DNA testing if it could prove a persons innocence.
Death Penalty- All for it, but...I have ZERO faith in the "justice system". I think ALL cases should use DNA testing if it could prove a persons innocence.
no on both and keep your religion out of my life. never trust any organization and it's viewponts that intentionally shelters a whole bunch of ordained child molesters and foists them on different unsuspecting communities.
I concur.
I believe all organized religion is only about power, and money.
But in the case of the Catholics, readilly available young boys also.
Ah, the real reason why catholics are anti- birth control and abortion...
I think you are on to something here.
Wow.
It just got REAL stupid in here.
It just got REAL stupid in here.
How so?Originally posted by Tweek
Wow.
It just got REAL stupid in here.
Yes murder is murder no matter what age the individual is....D
For myself, i would never ask someone to abort a child that i fathered. As for everyone else, i think its a personal choice that cant be decided by those not in the situation. No one is important enough to make that decision for everyone.
Nicely put. Now can we stop agreeing on stuff? It could be habit-forming..
You guys keep saying its murder but is it really murder if the thing isn't alive in the first place? Everyone agress that when you are born, your life starts. You have a birth certificate, not a conception certificate. If you kill a pregnant woman then you are charged with 1 murder, not 2.
How is a blastula of cells any more human than my heart or liver?
Thats my argument. If I was a girl, I would just say, whatever I do to my own body is my choice. As long as its in my uterus they shouldnt make a law about it. But I'm not, so I can't.
How is a blastula of cells any more human than my heart or liver?
Thats my argument. If I was a girl, I would just say, whatever I do to my own body is my choice. As long as its in my uterus they shouldnt make a law about it. But I'm not, so I can't.
there you go again eric, confusing catholocism with christianity. it's pretty sad that you let your view of something much bigger than "religion" be skewed by a bad experience with some dysfunctional school (past thread topic)
as far as the abortion thing.
-jesus- "Abortion- We need more of them. Too many unwanted kids are born in this country. Today's "project baby", is tommorow's criminal."
ever wonder why "the church" is so bent on pre-marital sex? it serves a purpose...you don't have unwanted children. there aren't enough MEN in our society that will take responsibility for their actions and there are too many WOMEN that are too selfish to realize that it's really not about choice, it's about integrity.
-lobo- "You guys keep saying its murder but is it really murder if the thing isn't alive in the first place? Everyone agress that when you are born, your life starts. "
where have you been? according to secular science, life begins when brain waves are detected so that means that a baby/fetus is alive after the first tri mester, therefore, blowing the "you're alive when you're born" theory out of the water. i believe that it's at conception but if you want to believe that you're nothing more than a bunch of cells working together collectively to walk aimlessly through life then fine.....i believe we're worth much more than that.
death penalty: i believe it should be up to the family of the victim(s) to decide. it would be their place to forgive if they could do so.
I'm pro-choice.
As long as they give the choice to the child.
All I know is that I'm pretty darn glad that my Father talked my Mother out of aborting an unwanted child.
As long as they give the choice to the child.
All I know is that I'm pretty darn glad that my Father talked my Mother out of aborting an unwanted child.
The solution is simple.
If you aren't capable of dealing with the concequences of doing so, stop f#$%ing.
I'm all for breeding liscences.
Here is what we do. Just after birth every child undergoes (paid for by the govt.) a reversible sterilization procedure. At the age of 21 you are able to go in front of the county breeding board. If you can prove that you are cognatively, and financially able to support a child the govt will have your sterilization reversed.
This way irresponsible people can have all the irresponsible sex they like and we won't have to deal with the concequences of their behavior. Of course the spread of STD's will be rampant, but I submit that the liberals can use it as defense of the theroy of natural selection. See, everybody wins.
If you aren't capable of dealing with the concequences of doing so, stop f#$%ing.
I'm all for breeding liscences.
Here is what we do. Just after birth every child undergoes (paid for by the govt.) a reversible sterilization procedure. At the age of 21 you are able to go in front of the county breeding board. If you can prove that you are cognatively, and financially able to support a child the govt will have your sterilization reversed.
This way irresponsible people can have all the irresponsible sex they like and we won't have to deal with the concequences of their behavior. Of course the spread of STD's will be rampant, but I submit that the liberals can use it as defense of the theroy of natural selection. See, everybody wins.
I'd have to say no to the death penalty in most cases.....too many innocent people have been killed.
wonderfully said
Haha nice plan Damn True, too bad it'll never ever be implemented..
I think it should just be left up to the girl/woman:
If my girlfriend got pregnant I am sure she wouldnt want the government telling her that she had to have this child when there was readily available technology that would allow for it to be removed. This is like if you break your arm during a DH race and the EMT says "umm we can't fix that because you were doing something risky and you knew the danger involved. You'll just have to live with it because you had an accident" Sounds kinda stupid, right?
And don't bring religion into this.
I think it should just be left up to the girl/woman:
If my girlfriend got pregnant I am sure she wouldnt want the government telling her that she had to have this child when there was readily available technology that would allow for it to be removed. This is like if you break your arm during a DH race and the EMT says "umm we can't fix that because you were doing something risky and you knew the danger involved. You'll just have to live with it because you had an accident" Sounds kinda stupid, right?
And don't bring religion into this.
Ok, I lied, I'm too tired and too lazy to look it up. I can attempt to explain it some other time.Originally posted by Lucee
Oh, could you please? I must've taken a wrong turn at the banana thread?
Leave here, PM dh girlie and ask her to escort you back to the banana thread.
Why is the responsibility left to the woman?
1/2 of the DNA is yours, 1/2 of the kid is yours.
1/2 of the legal and moral responsibility for raising the child is yours.
1/2 of the joy of having a kid hop up in your lap and say, "I love you daddy." is yours.
you're comparing apples to oranges. you CANNOT prove that life begins only at birth, however, it has been proven that babies have brain waves as early as 10 weeks. your analogy should read: you were doing something risky and you broke your arm. sorry, it's going to hurt a bit but you will have to live with it, you can't take away the fact that you broke your arm. i think that men and women who choose abortion are cowards, unwilling to accept their responsibility. you've got to pay to play.
oh, and i'm not some judgemental freak who doesn't know what he's talking about. my wife was 2 months pregnant when we were married. (no, it wasn't a shotgun wedding either)
How about this, we just lock up the convicted murderers and have them perform labor intensive manufacturing jobs to pay for their keep. Oregon had convicts making blue jeans and selling them under the Prison Blues label. Then some damn hippies sued and they had to stop. Too bad, they were sturdy darn jeans...
Abortion is a poor substitute for adoption!
Let's make adoption more affordable.
Abortion is a poor substitute for adoption!
Let's make adoption more affordable.
Because it's her body. You're not gonna have to walk around as a human manufacturing plant for 9 months.
ah yes. govn. sterilazation is the obvious answer to this problem.
until you live knowing that you can be raped and thus impregnated by a rapists baby, i dont think you need to say whether abortion should be legal or not. its not just used as a form of birth control. it is used if the mothers life can be in danger, it is used if the mother was raped, it is used if the baby isnt going to make it through labor.
things arent always black and white. i would never get an abortion if i was impreganted acidentally dring consentual sex, but i will tell you one thing, if someone rapes me and i become pregnant, there is no way in hell the government is going to tell me i have to carry that baby to term and then i can give it up for adoption. do you even realize how grossly traumatic that would be.
(ps all the "you's" i used in this post were universal "you's" not directed directly at damn true.)
So it's the baby's fault if you get raped? why does he/she have to pay the price for someone else's crime?
as far as aborting for the mother safety, those are definitely on a gray area but the actuality of the baby killing the mother during birth with today's medicine is almost nill. and killing a baby because it may have a birth defect? wow, if that's not conditional love for you child i don't know what is.
So it's the mother's fault if she gets raped? why should she have to pay for the rapists crime? The MOTHER is the victim here. Everything possible should be done to ease her trauma and suffering. She doesn't HAVE to abort, but it should be her right not to have to carry for 9 months the child of a man that violated her in the worst imaginable way.
Let's put it this way: Say you're hanging out on the base one day. Corporal Dirty
(who has a son) catches you alone in a tent, pins you down, humiliates you, and brutally rapes you. Dirty might get court marshalled if the judge decides you weren't "asking for it," but either way for the next nine months you have to carry his son around on your shoulders as a constant reminder (I mean constant: while you sleep, while you grocery shop, while you hang out with friends) of what he did to you, unless you're willing to have his son euthanized.
Now assume his son hasn't been born yet.
Wow--I sure am glad to know that eugenics is alive and well for some people in this forum. Yeah--sterilization, that sounds like a great idea. Let's just take away another right that women have--
Why do men find it so easy to support sterilization and be against abortion? Why do men want to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body? Why do men think they know what is "best for me" like I'm some child that should be taken care of with laws?
It makes me sick.
Why do men find it so easy to support sterilization and be against abortion? Why do men want to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body? Why do men think they know what is "best for me" like I'm some child that should be taken care of with laws?
It makes me sick.
NOT ALL OF US LF
just some of the more self righteous amongst us
To be fair to DT he didn't actually say that only women should be sterilised, he said all children. Which does of course raise the point that you could simply carry out a reversible vasectomy on all males and leave the women alone.
Not that I think enforced sterilisation is the answer.
I think abortion should be a personal choice (within reasonable time limits). If I were to want an abortion (unlikely as I have no womb) why should someone with a different moral viewpoint to me force their will over mine. It is not possible to objectively compare value systems (unless of course you have a personal hotline to the god that not all of us are convinced exists).
As it happens an ex-partner of mine did have an abortion after falling pregnant with my child and it made me remember that a lot of people talk crap about stuff they have not been through.
Another ex-girlfriend was raped by a stranger in a foreign country and having seen the consequences and trauma (including her having to worry and wait for results of a pregnancy test) it sickens me to think that anyone could think it a good idea to force a rape victim to bring their attacker's child into the world.
ok, lets make it hit home even more.. let's say MY WIFE is raped and conceives. we would still have the child because that child knows nothing of how it came to be, it's not the mother's fault as much as it isn't the child's fault. we would raise that child as if it were our own. bad things happen in life, so should we exterminate the less vocal ones of our society to make it easier on ourselves? heck, i claim discrimination for the babies!
abortion can not be explained as anything but selfish.
9 whole months?!?!?!
vs murdering what is 1/2 my child?
big deal
not a good enough reason
Ahhh the rape argument. Yawn.
First of all I never mentioned rape in my post. But since you brought it up.....The number of abortions as a result of women being impregnated during a rape are so small as to be an insignificant statistic. Yet it is the number one argument FOR Govt. supported murder. So why not add the knoledge that a woman MURDERED a child to the trauma of being rapped? Yeah, that's real compassion. The very narrow possibility that a woman might be rapped and might be impregnated by that rape is not enough justification to allow the thousands upon thousands of MURDERS that go along with making it leagal to get an abo-MURDER-rtion.
If a woman is rapped and if she is impregnated, RU-486 administered by the police after a rape is an adequete stopgap to this tiny group. We don't need to have legalized MURDER as a birth control method for irresponsible people who can't see their way to stop f$%&ing.
Second. The men would be sterilized as well. Which would prevent those who are above the legal age from impregnating those who are not.
Third. The post was farcical. A county breeding board? C'mon.
It was merely meant to illustrate the fact that the problem is not in the hands of the Govt but in the hands of parents and the people involved. Simply, if you cannot handle the concequences of doing so you must not f$%k. Legalized MURDER is not the answer.
Don't want to get pregnant?
Keep your damn knees together.
Don't want to support your child?
Keep your penis in your pants.
Waiting for marriage is a good idea for a number of reasons.
Someone wrote that in a book about 2000 years ago.