[jacksonpt]

I've done a lot of search and reading, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying a whole new wheelset and jumping to tubeless. I taco'd a rim the other day, so if I'm going to do it, it makes sense to do it now when I have to have the wheel rebuilt anyway.

From what I've read, the only concrete reason to go tubeless is the ability to run lower PSI with less risk of pinch flats. Seems like weight isn't much of an issue as tubed tires generally weigh less but need tubes, tubeless tires weigh more, but don't need tubes, so it all about balances out, no?

I don't want to hear about stans - I understand the advantages, but I'm looking to keep things simple, especially in terms of trailside repairs.

So: advantages and disadvantages of tubed versus tubeless, and why do you recommend one over the other. And if it matters much, this is in regards to trail/all-mountain riding.

 

[binary visions]

Tubeless is the way to go.

The tires are only marginally heavier, and usually there's a little weight saved vs. running tubes unless you're running silly-light tires.

The complete elimination of pinch-flats did wonders for my confidence in trying to up onto things where casing would result in a flat tube.

Plus, it's one less consumable to have on your bike.

I run Stans, but on a normal tubeless wheelset you can throw a tube in if your tire gets shredded and keep going, so you're not limited to tubeless just because your wheelset is UST compatible. If you're building up a new wheelset, you can go with the tubeless rims and just run tubes in 'em until you decide to make the jump to UST tires.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>So: advantages and disadvantages of tubed versus tubeless, and why do you recommend one over the other. And if it matters much, this is in regards to trail/all-mountain riding.

I was unable to find any advantages of tubeless. With low pressure I bottomed my rim just as frequently as with tubed tires. Even pinch-flatted one of my tubeless tires - so I ended up running the same pressure I would with tubed tires.

Disadvantages - poor(er) tire selection (although this is getting better). This was the clincher for me. I like ZMax'es and they don't make a UST. Oh, and tubed tires ALWAYS seem to be cheaper than tubeless.

So now I have two nice Crossmax UST rims with tubes & tires. Works for me.

-S.S.-

 

[Knuckleslammer]

Well, I am not a hardcore downhiller. I consider myself an intermediate to expert aggressive trailrider. I've probably had about 50 rides on tubeless tires without a single problem. I ride rock gardens, roots and all that crap. I run a system like this
1. D3.1 rims
2. Nokian 2.3 UST's, or Weirwolf 2.1's
3. 2 scoops stans in each tire
4. I usually run 30psi

NOT A SINGLE PROBLEM.

The tires are a dream to get on and off. I can do it by hand usually.
Use a compressor to pump up the tire. Put it this way. besides taking the rims off the bike. I can change/pump up tires in about 10 minutes.

I vote UST.

Knuckle

 

[stosh]

I've done a lot of search and reading, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying a whole new wheelset and jumping to tubeless. I taco'd a rim the other day, so if I'm going to do it, it makes sense to do it now when I have to have the wheel rebuilt anyway.

From what I've read, the only concrete reason to go tubeless is the ability to run lower PSI with less risk of pinch flats. Seems like weight isn't much of an issue as tubed tires generally weigh less but need tubes, tubeless tires weigh more, but don't need tubes, so it all about balances out, no?

I don't want to hear about stans - I understand the advantages, but I'm looking to keep things simple, especially in terms of trailside repairs.

So: advantages and disadvantages of tubed versus tubeless, and why do you recommend one over the other. And if it matters much, this is in regards to trail/all-mountain riding.

Yeah you have a lot of trail side repairs don't ya!!

 

[Knuckleslammer]

I love beating the same old topics to death

Knuckle

 

[JRB]

I didn't like tubeless. Lots of peeps do though.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Tubeless all the way.

For all the reasons you mentioned and then some.
1) It ads another level of tuneability to your bike. (the lower air pressure thing)
2) I think I have had 2 flats in the past 1.5 years that I have had tubeless
3) Stans is the way to go. It has probably contributed to #2 in a big way. The few times I have had to make a trail side repair the Stan's "mess" wasn't nearly as much of an issue as was getting the tubless valve stem to let go of the rim. (which wasn't that big of a deal either, but it was stubborn!)

Do it, you won't regret it.

When I say Stan's I mean throwing a little of his juice in a UST rim. I do not use the rim strips.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

Well, if you do go tubeless, get a good set of rims, and a good set of tires. I wouldn't attempt to make a non-ust rim ust compatible with those rim strips. Maybee they work, but seems like a big hassle to me.

Knuckle

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I love beating the same old topics to death

Knuckle

Besides

and porn, what is the internet for?

 

[Knuckleslammer]

As fars as the stans mess? It's latex folks. Washes off with water when wet. When dry, a light scrub brush with minimal effort, and you'll never know it was there.
Not a big deal.

Knuckle

 

[Knuckleslammer]

Besides

and porn, what is the internet for?

WER PHUCKING D

 

[Echo]

As you probably know, I'm a huge tubeless fan.

I run UST with Stan's sealant inside. I've found that adding the Stan's sealant is a wise move, because you CAN puncture a UST tire. In the 24 at Dalton, I got a puncture, and all I had to do was put in some air and spin the wheel so the hole was at the bottom, and let the sealant do its job. Finished that lap and did another one, no problems.

 

[jacksonpt]

I love beating the same old topics to death

yea, I know... but deal with it.



I almost didn't start this thread for that reason, but I'm hoping a good discussion will ensue and bring out some more info. Everything I've read to this point says the only real advantage is tubeless basically eliminates pinch flats. I've been riding for about 4 years, I generally run about 20PSI and I've pinch flatted 3 times in those 4 years. I don't consider pinch flats to be an issue for me, but I'm wondering if there are other, more subtle advantages.

 

[binary visions]

Well, if you do go tubeless, get a good set of rims, and a good set of tires. I wouldn't attempt to make a non-ust rim ust compatible with those rim strips. Maybee they work, but seems like a big hassle to me.

Knuckle

My Rhyno Lites are an absolute dream to inflate. Hard getting the DH tires on and off the rims but that has nothing to do with the rimstrips. Once they're on, take a hand pump to them and they're perfect.

 

[JRB]

The search function is so so stupid

 

[jacksonpt]

The search function is so so stupid

Again - I have searched - both here and MTBR. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

 

[JRB]

Again - I have searched - both here and MTBR. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

This thread will likely yield significantly different results.

Just tryin to help. sheesh :eviltongu

 

[jacksonpt]

Oh, also... I've seen a few people make the arguement that tubeless hook up better in loose terrain than do tubed tires. Why is that? I assume it has to do with running a lower tire pressure. I run my current tires at about 20PSI - any lower than that and the sidewall starts to crease/wrinkle under my weight. Even if I was running tubeless, I don't think I'd want to run a much lower PSI.

 

[JRB]

Oh and Jackson, dismiss 98% of what you read on mtbr.

 

[JRB]

Oh, also... I've seen a few people make the arguement that tubeless hook up better in loose terrain than do tubed tires. Why is that? I assume it has to do with running a lower tire pressure. I run my current tires at about 20PSI - any lower than that and the sidewall starts to crease/wrinkle under my weight. Even if I was running tubeless, I don't think I'd want to run a much lower PSI.

That is stupid low. You woudn't get 30 feet on a ride here doing that. I couldn't run less than 38 lbs tubeless. I run 42 or so with tubes. I view it as an extra expense really.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

yea, I know... but deal with it.



I almost didn't start this thread for that reason, but I'm hoping a good discussion will ensue and bring out some more info. Everything I've read to this point says the only real advantage is tubeless basically eliminates pinch flats. I've been riding for about 4 years, I generally run about 20PSI and I've pinch flatted 3 times in those 4 years. I don't consider pinch flats to be an issue for me, but I'm wondering if there are other, more subtle advantages.

I was just bustin ya bro. I seriously do love this particular discussion. I love hearing the tubeless horror stories and people that have endless problems with it. I don't understand it. I have had this system for a year now and have had 0 problems, and I don't knock on wood either.

Knuck

 

[Echo]

Oh and Jackson, dismiss 98% of what you read on mtbr.

Actually closer to 100%

 

[jacksonpt]

Oh and Jackson, dismiss 98% of what you read on mtbr.

Are the message boards that worthless too? I don't spend much time over there - apparently with good reason.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

20 PSI is asking for trouble I think. Plus it your running a 2.3 or > it's way difficult to pedal. I run 30 minimum. What do you guys think about 20 psi?
I ran 25 on my hardtail (non-ust) with weirwolf 2.5's and got 3 pinch flats in 2 rides.

 

[jacksonpt]

That is stupid low. You woudn't get 30 feet on a ride here doing that. I couldn't run less than 38 lbs tubeless. I run 42 or so with tubes. I view it as an extra expense really.

Maybe the guage on my pump isn't accurate.
When I take my truck off-road, I run the tires as soft as I can without having to worry about losing a bead. I take the same approach with my bike tires.

FWIW... I do have to run my Ritcheys up around 30PSI to keep them from pinch flatting - the rubber compound on the Ritcheys is much softer than on my WTBs.

 

[binary visions]

Part of the point of tubeless is you get better traction for the same pressure, because the tire deforms to the terrain better since there is no tube holding it up.

Although yes, you can run lower pressure because there are no pinchflats to worry about.

 

[jacksonpt]

20 PSI is asking for trouble I think. Plus it your running a 2.3 or > it's way difficult to pedal. I run 30 minimum. What do you guys think about 20 psi?
I ran 25 on my hardtail (non-ust) with weirwolf 2.5's and got 3 pinch flats in 2 rides.

I run 20-22 in my 2.1 WTBs and 30-35 in my 2.3 Ritcheys. The Ritcheys pinch flat much easier; I presume because the rubber compound is so much softer.

 

[jacksonpt]

the tire deforms to the terrain better since there is no tube holding it up.

Ahhhh, ok - now we're getting somewhere. Now that could be an advantage to me.

 

[binary visions]

I run 20-22 in my 2.1 WTBs and 30-35 in my 2.3 Ritcheys. The Ritcheys pinch flat much easier; I presume because the rubber compound is so much softer.

I can't believe you run 20psi in a 2.1" tire. Sounds like it's time to get some higher volume tires - I think you'd be a lot happier on a 2.3 rear/2.5 front combo. You will be able to run more pressure and still have the slight bump absorbtion/good traction effect.

The sidewall thickness is what determines how easy the tire is to pinch flat. That combined with the rim design.

 

[stosh]

I like UST. I've been pretty happy with them and I love not having to carry around tubes even though the people who worry about poping a tire carry them.

They are easy and IMO the simplify things. However you may want to make sure you always have Ole Crooked hat around to seat the tires.

 

[jacksonpt]

However you may want to make sure you always have Ole Crooked hat around to seat the tires.

hahahha!

 

[stosh]

hahahha!

He still won't let me live that down.

 

[JRB]

I like UST. I've been pretty happy with them and I love not having to carry around tubes even though the people who worry about poping a tire carry them.

They are easy and IMO the simplify things. However you may want to make sure you always have Ole Crooked hat around to seat the tires.

Enjoy your walk out of the woods. A 150gm tube is way easier to carry everyday than the hike you are asking for. It will happen. When it does, you should have to walk. Not carrying at least one tube is dumb.

 

[jacksonpt]

I can't believe you run 20psi in a 2.1" tire. Sounds like it's time to get some higher volume tires - I think you'd be a lot happier on a 2.3 rear/2.5 front combo. You will be able to run more pressure and still have the slight bump absorbtion/good traction effect.

I'm going to be getting some Conti Verticals in a 2.3 this week. I'm a bit of a tire whore, but I can't find a good 2.3 that doesn't weigh a ton. I really want to try out some Nokians, but they are on the heavy side.

 

[jdcamb]

I really want to try out some Nokians, but they are on the heavy side.

Don't forget the expensive side too. I can't find the cheap anywhere......jdcamb

 

[Knuckleslammer]

I have the nokian 2.3 tubeless and they are like 2lbs each.
I had the conti 2.3's and they rub on my mtx frame :mumble:

 

[golgiaparatus]

Never owned tubeless rims so I cant say that I know the difference. However since I like to run semi low tire pressure and 75% of my flats are due to a pinch... they sound pretty good... its all about the $$

 

[Knuckleslammer]

:mumble:

 

[jacksonpt]

Don't forget the expensive side too. I can't find the cheap anywhere......jdcamb

Yea, but I don't mind spending the money on a good tire. Problem is, I hate spending the money just to find out IF a tire is good.