[Sandwich]

what attracts me to this bike is not that it's capable of doing crazy DH level stuff, but that's it's also capable of riding very well on regular trails. Knowing the manipulation tech that spec has, they can build a very lightweight frame that still has big travel. pair that with geometry that will reasonably handle very well up and down, and it's a very appealing bike. They've also been smart with it. Despite the RM-approved trend towards riding a DH bike everywhere, they've included a front derailleur for people that don't like to feel like they're riding a DH bike everywhere. The seat tube is not ridiculously kicked out, so you could theoretically raise it enough to be seated comfortably. They even have a pivot point that may not become MORE active under pedaling.

There's very little about this bike that I don't like. Hell, as I've got a kid on the horizon, a smaller, more reliable stable is getting appealing, and being able to ride pretty much everything on the same bike (albeit with maybe a spare set of wheels for DH) ain't so crazy, as my DH racing days will be dead come september.

 

[joeg]

Having spent the last 18 months on a Norco Shinobi (140mm front/120mm rear) I think you'd have to live somewhere pretty special to take advantage of this bike. The Norco is about the upper limit of what I'm comfy pedalling around, and if I need more bike I need my DH rig.
For me the 29er duallie is happy at a higher average speed than a similar 26er. Similar to the way a dh is bike is only really happy when its going say above 15mph, my old 26 inch trailbikes were happy above 10 mph, with old school xc bikes being happy at walking speed or above. The Norco is probably closer to a dh bike in the speeds it needs to carry to feel "alive". Adding more travel would only push it closer to the speeds I like to ride my dh bike. Could I find a 2hr trail ride with trails like that near me? Nope, but good luck if you live somewhere that you can!

I'd agree with the basic sentiment here. I'm not spec bashing either, its a significant accomplishment getting such a short stay and big wheels into that package - esp with a front der. Congratulations to all of them - even if they thought it would be funny to announce it by saying a bike was stolen in my town where bike theft is an epidemic. Both hard things to do (engineering and being d-bags) - but maybe not for everyone.
The thing I have trouble with on big travel 29ers is the stack height. I mean, the front end is so friggin tall, even compared to DH bikes they are tall. The Tallboy LT has a stack of 630mm with a 140 fork - and its borderline for me on a large. I find that one number to be the biggest limiting factor of long travel 29ers.

 

[weedkilla]

nobody needs more than 640kb of RAM - bill gates

Kinda yeah, but nah.
Think more along the lines of Goldilocks, or if thats too obscure - bolt some super monsters on the front of your trail bike.

 

[jonKranked]

even if they thought it would be funny to announce it by saying a bike was stolen in my town where bike theft is an epidemic. Both hard things to do (engineering and being d-bags) - but maybe not for everyone.

personally i thought that marketing plan was pretty poor form, even by bike industry standards. kinda trivializes the whole situation for people who have been unfortunate enough to actually have their bikes stolen. my guess is this viral marketing turd was the by-product of some middle aged marketing schmuck who thought they were being clever and witty. "oh hey let's throw bigfoot in too. it worked for that beef jerky company"

 

[CBJ]

Brilliant Jon.

 

[Sandwich]

personally i thought that marketing plan was pretty poor form, even by bike industry standards. kinda trivializes the whole situation for people who have been unfortunate enough to actually have their bikes stolen. my guess is this viral marketing turd was the by-product of some middle aged marketing schmuck who thought they were being clever and witty. "oh hey let's throw bigfoot in too. it worked for that beef jerky company"

i love beef jerky. I guess I should buy a specialized.

 

[jonKranked]

i love beef jerky. I guess I should buy a specialized.

a 29" piece of beef jerky would have been a better marketing plan

 

[atrokz]

29ers lose again in XC side by side at Old Pueblo:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/26er-or-29er-which-was-faster-at-the-24-hours-in-the-old-pueblo

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dave-harris-26-vs-29-inch-challenge

This is actualy quite good. Paired with the other 'tests' mags are doing, I think we have a fairly clear picture on what the advantages and disadvantages are. The powermeter hubs are a pretty awesome way to see what's up. Having tried a few 29'ers, I can attest that they do indeed require more effort to accelerate, and that does add up over time especialy on tighter trails. At the end of the day it's great to have choice, provided we aren't pushed into something (which is what this 'industry' loves to do).

On topic, this would be an interesting bike (to me) had it been 650b. Leave the 29'ers to hardtails. (this is my opinion, even though I'm right)

 

[4130biker]

personally i thought that marketing plan was pretty poor form, even by bike industry standards. kinda trivializes the whole situation for people who have been unfortunate enough to actually have their bikes stolen. my guess is this viral marketing turd was the by-product of some middle aged marketing schmuck who thought they were being clever and witty. "oh hey let's throw bigfoot in too. it worked for that beef jerky company"

Getting a bike stolen IS trivial for 90% of us since you have to have a job, and if you're smart, insurance to even participate!
I viewed it as more adding to the whole Bigfoot hoax/joke thing that fits right in with mtb culture, not the whole corperate comedy skit beef jerky commercial. I will say that I was offended about all of this hype with no 4" enduro sx in sight!

 

[jonKranked]

Getting a bike stolen IS trivial for 90% of us since you have to have a job, and if you're smart, insurance to even participate!
I viewed it as more adding to the whole Bigfoot hoax/joke thing that fits right in with mtb culture, not the whole corperate comedy skit beef jerky commercial. I will say that I was offended about all of this hype with no 4" enduro sx in sight!

oh? 90% you say? you clearly overestimate how wealthy the average mountain biker is. not to mention 90% of all statistics on the internet come from a proctologist.

but i totally agree with you on the enduro sx. i'm still trail riding my sx.

 

[Sandwich]

you guys keep mentioning beef jerky and it's not even lunchtime yet

 

[4130biker]

oh? 90% you say? you clearly overestimate how wealthy the average mountain biker is. not to mention 90% of all statistics on the internet come from a proctologist.

but i totally agree with you on the enduro sx. i'm still trail riding my sx.

I am by no means saying that we are wealthy- but when I hear trivializing, I think it takes a significant life event to be "trivialized". Yeah, it definitely really sucks, but for most of us we could get another bike eventually.
And you are correct, 90% statistic came from where the sun don't shine.

 

[Pslide]

As an owner of a proto-Prime, this Specialized fixes my only two gripes...weight and chainstay length. In fairness, the production Prime is 700g lighter than my proto frame. But the Spec will be lighter still I'm sure.

Long chainstays IMO are the #1 factor that have given 29ers a bad reputation. I've got a Canfield Nimble 9 with 16.3" chainstays and it's poppy and flickable.

A sub-30lbs 6" 29er is absolutely going to slay it in high speed technical terrain. It's too much for where I live now, but for (tall) folks who live in real mountains and like to let it rip, the new Spec is gonna kill it. I reckon Aaron Gwin could win Pietermaritzburg on this thing.

Your probably thinking I'm drinking the cool aid, but consider I've actually ridden what I'm talking about.

I just hope the sport doesn't start disadvantaging small folks at a competitive level. Given some of the benefits of 29ers, I could see it happening in the future...

 

[atrokz]

As an owner of a proto-Prime, this Specialized fixes my only two gripes...weight and chainstay length. In fairness, the production Prime is 700g lighter than my proto frame. But the Spec will be lighter still I'm sure.

Long chainstays IMO are the #1 factor that have given 29ers a bad reputation. I've got a Canfield Nimble 9 with 16.3" chainstays and it's poppy and flickable.

A sub-30lbs 6" 29er is absolutely going to slay it in high speed technical terrain. It's too much for where I live now, but for (tall) folks who live in real mountains and like to let it rip, the new Spec is gonna kill it. I reckon Aaron Gwin could win Pietermaritzburg on this thing.

Your probably thinking I'm drinking the cool aid, but consider I've actually ridden what I'm talking about.

I just hope the sport doesn't start disadvantaging small folks at a competitive level. Given some of the benefits of 29ers, I could see it happening in the future...

Nope. Plenty of shorter women racing on 29'ers currently. Emily Batty comes to mind. They usualy don't ride on FS bikes anyways, so not much difference.

Also, some guys, as was shown in those tests posted above, are faster on 26" anyways. So the whole point of advantages is completely moot and subjective.

 

[Pslide]

Nope. Plenty of shorter women racing on 29'ers currently. Emily Batty comes to mind. They usualy don't ride on FS bikes anyways, so not much difference.

Also, some guys, as was shown in those tests posted above, are faster on 26" anyways. So the whole point of advantages is completely moot and subjective.

I was thinking more in the sport of Enduro, which is going to get bigger and badder, and Mega-Avalanche, etc. With the new generation of 29er bikes, better 29er tires and carbon rims coming down in price, I could see the 6" 29er becoming the weapon of choice in this type of race format. Which is fine, if you're 5'6" or taller...

 

[atrokz]

Gotcha.

 

[Beef Supreme]

Nope. Plenty of shorter women racing on 29'ers currently. Emily Batty comes to mind. They usualy don't ride on FS bikes anyways, so not much difference.

This argument pisses me off to no end. Taking the narrowest subset of riders...pros, riding in highly contrived conditions...groomed track, overlook all of the negatives...bar height, toe overlap and standover, with ulterior motives...marketing, and apply that to an average rider is completely ridiculous. It is hard enough to get any kind of a proper fit for a 5'2" person with 26" wheels.

I consider Joe Murray to be the most influential mountain bike designer of all time. If you are around his height, your bikes have probably been working pretty awesome for you for all these years. If you are 6'3", you probably looked like the proverbial monkey fvcking a football and had to compensate for your bike being out of proportion. 29ers are great for taller riders but they are not a fit all solution any more that 26ers are. In context of this thread, we are talking about a bike that wont even fit a rider shorter than 5'8".

 

[jonKranked]

I'm 6'1" and still ride BMX at 20" wheelsize. Your argument is invalid.

 

[Beef Supreme]

I'm 6'1" and still ride BMX at 20" wheelsize. Your argument is invalid.

Little football

 

[jonKranked]

Little football

off to the flea circus with the rest of the clowns!

 

[Jeremy R]

I'm 6'1" and still ride BMX at 20" wheelsize. Your argument is invalid.

We are all at the same skill level Jerry!

 

[atrokz]

This argument pisses me off to no end. Taking the narrowest subset of riders...pros, riding in highly contrived conditions...groomed track, overlook all of the negatives...bar height, toe overlap and standover, with ulterior motives...marketing, and apply that to an average rider is completely ridiculous. It is hard enough to get any kind of a proper fit for a 5'2" person with 26" wheels.

I consider Joe Murray to be the most influential mountain bike designer of all time. If you are around his height, your bikes have probably been working pretty awesome for you for all these years. If you are 6'3", you probably looked like the proverbial monkey fvcking a football and had to compensate for your bike being out of proportion. 29ers are great for taller riders but they are not a fit all solution any more that 26ers are. In context of this thread, we are talking about a bike that wont even fit a rider shorter than 5'8".

She's winning races, and on an world cup team. You aren't. She can run any bike she wants under the stable, and she chose a 29er after testing it. It's faster for her. The moot point is actualy talking about ONE bike as an arguing point for 29'ers and body size, actualy.

Again, it's individual perference. Some people, smaller than you, will prefer larger wheels. Some larger than you, will prefer 26". I'm 6'1" with a 76" reach, and I prefer 26" after riding a few 29" bikes. This isn't emperical science. Go figure.

 

[dropmachine]

Atrokz you're a stupid face. The internet is NEVER WRONG, and actual riding experience HAS NO PLACE HERE.

REPENT AND DENOUNCE YOUR LOGICAL EXPERIENCED WAYS!

 

[atrokz]

You raise a good point. See sig....

 

[jonKranked]

29ers must need a whole lotta shimz

 

[bdamschen]

She can run any bike she wants under the stable, and she chose a 29er after testing it. .

I'll bet that's not necessarily true. She probably runs whatever bike they give her to run.

That said, I don't disagree with you. Rider preference. I know some shorter local dudes who shred just fine on a 29er while my 6'4" self still likes a 26" wheel.

 

[atrokz]

I'll ask.

 

[bdamschen]

I'll ask.

Nice. See if she'll sign a jersey for me too.

 

[Huck Banzai]

I always love the 'for tall riders' 29er argument.

Hi, I'm 6'8" and niners STILL suck.

Thank you, that is all.

 

[sikocycles]

I always love the 'for tall riders' 29er argument.

Hi, I'm 6'8" and niners STILL suck.

Thank you, that is all.

Didn't you have one of those plastic SC TallBoy LT 29er things coming

 

[Huck Banzai]

Nope. The carbon lured me, the 29er sent me back to reality.

Maybe 27.5, we'll see if those stand up, but 29 has run its course and peaked; watch it fade now.

 

[Jm_]

My gripe (if you want to call it that) of 29rs is the flexiness of the wheels. It may be the build quality of my current wheelset and crown/tire clearance, but i can buzz the tire at times if i am diving into a hard corner. And my front fork is a reba 20mm ta.

Hmm, the 20mm hub won't help a whole lot for torsion flex(that's what dual crowns are for), but for lateral rigidity it helps quite a bit. I've never had this problem, although I've run a rigid fork most of the time. Some of those forks are pretty pathetic with their crowns and stanchions, given the long axle-to-crown distance. The 34mm stanchions and 15mm axle on the fox is probably a better system than the 32mm stanchions and 20mm hub on the RS, even though the best world would be 34mm stanchions and a 20mm hub.

 

[Jm_]

Well sonavabitch, I just ordered one. Seems they are coming with 160mm 35mm Pikes now too.

A 29er with 16.9" chainstays with 155mm of travel just can't be ignored. I tried.

 

[chillindrdude]

Alu or carbon?

 

[Jm_]

Alu, if they just offered the frame I might be interested in the carbon, but it seems they won't do that for a little while. Supposedly the shipment to the LBS is due at the end of this month, so we'll see, but I'm stoked, this should be a super fun bike, a few component changes will make it sub 30.

 

[Jm_]

I forgot about the height issue. I just had a discussion about that elsewhere. It's still my opinion that 29ers are stupid for short folks, but some short folks are going to want better rollover too. 650b is perfect for that. I also don't think most manufacturers will be able to match specialized's short rear end, and will therefore continue to make the move to 650b. Specialized is fighting a losing battle here, as I'm willing to bet most of "the industry" is moving towards 650b, and 29" will all but be abandoned for hardcore use in a few years. I'd love one of these bikes, but if spec are the only people making aggressive 29ers, it doesn't matter.



but what about the flickability?!1

Hmm...just reading over this thread. I take slight issue with this though. It's not that 29 is going to be endangered by 27.5, it's 26 that's on the way out. I predicted that we'd get all of these 27.5 bikes years ago, in the sense that these will be the "normal" bikes and we are seeing the advantage of bigger wheels. These are the bikes that smaller people can use that still want to roll over better, just like you said. What that does is it makes 26 dead in the water. Expect it to go away except for the absolute bottom of the line bikes at the LBS, and maybe even then that will change a bit later. DH bikes will be 26 for a while, but I'm sure we'll see a few 27.5 soon, DJ/DS may be 26 for a while, snowbikes are 26, but pretty much unlike a 26" mtb in every way except rim diameter, they actually have 29er geometry. So except for a few niche markets, I think we are going to see the end of new 26ers in the next few years.

So if you are big enough of the frame is designed well enough, you can go to 29 to get even better rolling/momentum, but 27.5 is a real option too. 26? On it's way out IMO. I'm going to predict the above and I bet within 5 years it's negated to specialized hardrocks and trek 820s. 29 isn't going anywhere.

 

[Floor Tom]

Well sonavabitch, I just ordered one. Seems they are coming with 160mm 35mm Pikes now too.

I have a carbon on order and was going to order a Pike to replace the 34 that it comes with. Where did you hear that its coming with a Pike?

 

[Jm_]

I have a carbon on order and was going to order a Pike to replace the 34 that it comes with. Where did you hear that its coming with a Pike?

Salesguy that supposedly talks to the rep each week. Supposedly what is ordered and coming is actually a 2014, or at least has the 2014 new Pike 160 on it. Now, I won't be very disappointed if it doesn't come with it, because I am dealing with human beings and they are known to sometimes exaggerate, but he seemed pretty legit and was able to fill in some of the pike's details. I haven't heard of the latest batch hitting the ground anywhere yet, it's supposed to be the end of this month, again according to the rep, but I've verified that in other places too. If we start to see new ones without it, then I guess we'll know for sure.

 

[Floor Tom]

Hmmm, mine is supposed to be here in about 2 weeks so I might just hold off on ordering the fork until the bike turns up. Should only take a few days to get the fork anyway.
Have you heard if the Carbon one is switching to a Pike too?

 

[Jm_]

I don't know if it's any indication, but the Sea Otter SJ Evo 29er (pretty ripping bike in it's own right) and the Enduro 29ers had the Pikes on them. The salesguy said all the 29ers will have the Pikes, but again, it's one of those things that you don't want to trust too much and end up disappointed in the end.