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Debut of F22 Raptor

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
valve bouncer said:
I'm gonna slap you in the face in a minute. :( ;) Exactly my point, why waste money trying to build a nuke sub if an electric can do the job better. Bite the bullet, get 20 Collins class subs to guard the coast.
We've already got trained dolphins.

Candygram...
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
valve bouncer said:
I wish you guys had have done as good on Japan as you did on Germany. Everything there looks lovely and twee, Japan...well, Japan looks like a bomb hit it. ;)
Except all that melted concrete in Dresden...

I think they had a lot more to rebuild than the Japanese did, overall...the destruction in Japan was total, but very localized. Germany took quite a pounding all over.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Andyman_1970 said:
The Concorde had 4 Rolls Royce Olympus engines which are turbojet designs -high fuel comsuption - the P&W F119 and GE F120 engines are low bypass turbo fan engines - much better fuel economy than a turbojet.
Damn that 60's technology. I still hope this new tech can be applied commercially. I suspect Andy that the real reason supersonic commercial planes are not in the pipeline is still the noise deal. BTW Andy, you seem a plane bloke, do you check airliner.net? I go there ocassionally although I'm not a member. F*ck paying $25 to be a member.
 

lovebunny

can i lick your balls?
Dec 14, 2003
7,317
245
San Diego, California, United States
I wish you guys had have done as good on Japan as you did on Germany. Everything there looks lovely and twee, Japan...well, Japan looks like a bomb hit it
more like 2. ;) and i agree we need to work more on our ground forces. but the f-22 has the ability to replace the f14,15,16,and 18. and yes last i heard that they are working on a naval versian. did anyone complain when the b2 was introduced?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
MikeD said:
Except all that melted concrete in Dresden...

I think they had a lot more to rebuild than the Japanese did, overall...the destruction in Japan was total, but very localized. Germany took quite a pounding all over.
My facetious remarks aside Mike, the Japanese didn't miss out. The total land area of Japan and Germany is pretty close but Japan, as you said, is much more centralised because of the mountainous nature of the country. Be interested to know, Hiroshima and Nagasaki aside, the total tonnage dropped on each country.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
valve bouncer said:
Damn that 60's technology. I still hope this new tech can be applied commercially. I suspect Andy that the real reason supersonic commercial planes are not in the pipeline is still the noise deal. BTW Andy, you seem a plane bloke, do you check airliner.net? I go there ocassionally although I'm not a member. F*ck paying $25 to be a member.
Yeah comparing the Concorde engines and the F-22's engines are like comparing a carbureted Chevy 350 and a Ferrari F1 engine.

You are correct about the noise deal for non-military jets. I read an internal study we did on a supersonic business jet and all the "hoops" they would have to jump through design wise to reduce the noise signature.........it looked like a big pain.

You are correct in your assesment of me as a "plane bloke", my wife likes to call it "airplane geek"............if the shoe fits............. :cool:

I'll have to check airliner.net out...........thanks.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
bhspec03 said:
did anyone complain when the b2 was introduced?
Mate I did....you guys had the B17 then the B25, the B29, B47 and the B52. I would have respected that airpline much more if it was like the B102. B2 is sending a message to the terrorists that you guys are gonna f*ck 'em over with biplanes. All that money and you can't get a calculator. SORT IT OUT AMERICA
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,403
22,485
Sleazattle
valve bouncer said:
Mate I did....you guys had the B17 then the B25, the B29, B47 and the B52. I would have respected that airpline much more if it was like the B102. B2 is sending a message to the terrorists that you guys are gonna f*ck 'em over with biplanes. All that money and you can't get a calculator. SORT IT OUT AMERICA
Well there was the B1, I guess the Airforce can't count past 52 and had to roll things over.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
bmxr said:
I suppose we should fly around in F-14's (1970), F-15's (1972), F-16's(1979) and F/A 18's (1980)in forever? Progress in military technology takes money, and lots of it. I favor reducing military spending in certain ways, but curtailing the development of new technologies (which the Raptor is replete with) isn't my favorite. Here is another example.

Confucius say, "Woman who fly aeroplane upside down has crack up..."
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
valve bouncer said:
My facetious remarks aside Mike, the Japanese didn't miss out. The total land area of Japan and Germany is pretty close but Japan, as you said, is much more centralised because of the mountainous nature of the country. Be interested to know, Hiroshima and Nagasaki aside, the total tonnage dropped on each country.
Approximately 160000 tons of bombs were dropped on the Japanese home islands.

Approximately 1.3 million tons were dropped within the German borders.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
DRB said:
Approximately 160000 tons of bombs were dropped on the Japanese home islands.

Approximately 1.3 million tons were dropped within the German borders.
A handy figure to refute those 'atomic racism' charges, indeed. People love to pop that one off these days, too.
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,889
0
Boston Area
Changleen said:
The introduction of the new fighter jet comes in the same week that its manufacturer, Lockheed-Martin, announced a 40% rise in profits as it processes orders for its next generation of fighter aircraft, the F-35.
With the new JSF, I don't see why they are continuing with the F-22.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Repack said:
With the new JSF, I don't see why they are continuing with the F-22.

For the same reason there is a need for the FA-18 and F-16.
One is an air-superiority fighter, the other an attack jet.

Though there is some grey area where the two meet, they are profoundly different in their intent and missions.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Silver said:
Remember, with all this whiz bang stuff, the B-52 is still plugging along...
Cars are much lighter faster and efficient now than they were in the late 50's when the 52 was first penned.
However, with all the cool automotive technology we still need dump trucks don't we?
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,904
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Pōneke
Damn True said:
Cars are much lighter faster and efficient now than they were in the late 50's when the 52 was first penned.
What even the Escalade, the Ford Explorer? The F150?

Sorry, just being pedantic...
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Uh yeah actually.
Average fuel economy for an early 60's V-8 was around 10 (or fewer)mpg with about 300hp.
Engines of the same size routinely make the same if not more power and get over 20mph.

Fuel injection, electronic ignition, variable valve timing and overdrive transmissions.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Damn True said:
For the same reason there is a need for the FA-18 and F-16.
One is an air-superiority fighter, the other an attack jet.

Though there is some grey area where the two meet, they are profoundly different in their intent and missions.


Which one is which tough guy? Those are both multi-role fighters. Both of those planes flew in the same trials for the same role for the air force. The JSF fills a different niche than the F22, you're right about that. The JSF will be made for carrier roles, VTOL applications as well as a traditional attack fighter.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Like I said, there is a grey area in between where the two planes capabilities overlap. However, the F-16 is primarily an air superiority fighter designed for air to air combat with a capability for ground attack.
The FA-18 is primarilly a ground attack fighter with a capability for air superiority roles.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Damn True said:
Like I said, there is a grey area in between where the two planes capabilities overlap. However, the F-16 is primarily an air superiority fighter designed for air to air combat with a capability for ground attack.
The FA-18 is primarilly a ground attack fighter with a capability for air superiority roles.
Look it up. MULTI ROLE FIGHTER, meaning exactly that. Air to air is really the F15's realm. F 16's have primarily been tasked to attack roles

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/F-16
 

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,340
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
Zark said:
Look it up. MULTI ROLE FIGHTER, meaning exactly that. Air to air is really the F15's realm. F 16's have primarily been tasked to attack roles

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/F-16
The man is correct... the F15 is the US's king of the sky... well, it was until the Raptor. Apparently the raptor is actually going to be replacing the Eagle. Anyone ever seen the F15 take off in under 100 yards of runway It's frikkin amazing.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
i keep thinking to myself "needs to get a life" but who am i to talk i'm browsing a mt. bikers political forum.......

guess i'll go outside and play with my new model airplanes now.... :p
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
MikeD said:
A handy figure to refute those 'atomic racism' charges, indeed. People love to pop that one off these days, too.
Using simple tonnage figures does not really tell the whole story. The physical destruction resulting from the air attack on Japan approximates that suffered by Germany, even though the tonnage of bombs dropped was far smaller. The attack was more concentrated in time, and the target areas were smaller and more vulnerable. Japan had little or no air or civil defense when compared to Germany and the B-29 was a much more effective bomber than those used in the European theatre.

The atomic racism charges fall apart even under the briefest of glimpses. There is no arguing that the racism toward Japanese Americans was rampant during World War II, having to look no further than the internment camps for evidence of that. However, the fact remains that the US was equally committed to the defeat of both enemies at any and all costs. If the racism has played such an important part of US war policy it is unlikely that the adoption of a Europe First policy would have occurred at Arcadia. As it was the US planned to only fight a war or containment against the Japanese until Germany could be defeated. It was only because of American industry far outstripping expectations and a unique strategy that allowed US forces to pick the battles they were going to fight that an offensive war was possible in the Pacific theatre. If atomic bomb had been available prior to the surrender of Germany, it would have been used in Europe so as to speed the end of the European campaign to allow more focus on Japan.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
DRB said:
F15E Strike Eagle.......
Yeah but, the F-15 was not designed from the ground up as a strike aircraft, the F-16, F/A-18 were designed intially with strike cabablities. The F-15E is also structurally different and has a different avionics suite from the "normal" F-15........so it's not a "normal" F-15 with bombs bolted on and painted dark grey.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,904
2,867
Pōneke
Damn True said:
Uh yeah actually.
Average fuel economy for an early 60's V-8 was around 10 (or fewer)mpg with about 300hp.
Engines of the same size routinely make the same if not more power and get over 20mph.

Fuel injection, electronic ignition, variable valve timing and overdrive transmissions.
Huh. On the Internet it says the Dodge Ram gets 9mpg under test conditions and Top gear say that in reality Cars like the Escalade and Dodge Ram actually get 4-6mpg in real world conditions... Anyway, keep talking planes.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Changleen said:
Huh. On the Internet it says the Dodge Ram gets 9mpg under test conditions and Top gear say that in reality Cars like the Escalade and Dodge Ram actually get 4-6mpg in real world conditions... Anyway, keep talking planes.
4-6mpg?
Maybe towing a trailer....in the rockies.
Ive owned 30 year old vehicles that got better mileage than that.

From www.fueleconomy.gov

All with v-8, automatic and 2wd
2005 Cadillac Escalade: 15-20mpg
2005 Ford Explorer: 16-21mpg
2005 Ford F-150: 15-20mpg
2005 Chevy Corvette: 18-26mpg
2005 Ford Mustang: 18-23mpg
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Damn True said:
4-6mpg?
Maybe towing a trailer....in the rockies.
Ive owned 30 year old vehicles that got better mileage than that.

From www.fueleconomy.gov

All with v-8, automatic and 2wd
2005 Cadillac Escalade: 15-20mpg
2005 Ford Explorer: 16-21mpg
2005 Ford F-150: 15-20mpg
2005 Chevy Corvette: 18-26mpg
2005 Ford Mustang: 18-23mpg
My F150 5.4l V8 averages 16 in the city and 20 on the highway.