[scottishmark]

Yeah, but it is not about the dollar figure as much as it is about what you get out of it. The only good thing left about our nationals are, the courses, and the fact that we get to practice them for 3 days and then race. Now, they are uping the price, cutting practice times, and making riders pay extra to ride up the lift.

Compare it to the US Open where the prices are similar but nobody is complaining, because the event is sweet, the course is dope, and the prizes are off the hook.
Having gone to our Nationals for years, what they are doing now is making it not worth flying out for. Why would I fly across the country for a measly 5 hours of practice. All while they are just raising prices and lowering expectations.

Timetable:
Friday 25th March
Signing On 3:00pm to 8:00pm
Course open for inspection from 12:00pm

Saturday 26th March
Signing on 8:00am to 12:00pm
Open Practice 9:30am to 2:00pm
Elite/Expert Practice 2:00pm to 2:30pm
Qualifying Runs 3:00pm to 6:00pm

Sunday 27th March
Open Practice 9:00am to 12:30pm
Race Run 1:00pm to 4:00pm
Podium Ceremony 4:15pm

Thats all we get for our money (well their money as i refuse to pay that kinda price). which equateds to just 6 runs down an alright course at the last round.

Our only saviour is that the Scottish series is excellent these days, which helps to keep everyone interested

 

[Jeremy R]

Timetable:

OK, you win.
That blows as well.

It is just that I really used to think that the nationals were a bargain back in the day. They were always an awesome experience until recently.
Oh well, what can we do? The price we pay for the love of bike riding.

 

[Transcend]

IF WE ALL KNEW THIS WE WOULD NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH
NONSENSE ALSO KNOWN AS NORBA, I LIVE AN HOUR AWAY FROM THE RACE VENUE AND IT IS STILL A MYSTERY TO ME

dude, lay off the friggin caps.

 

[heikkihall]

Wow, cool.
So the Ametuer racers subsidise pros. Neato.

When will the people that run this sport pull their head's out and hire someone away from the AMA? Geez, at least call the AMA and ask them how to do stuff.

From my understanding in many AMA events pros not even have to pay for their entry fees. It is supposed to be the showcase event so the cost is offset by charging spectators, amature races, and selling the tv rights.
Many Ski races are very similar. If you are one of the top 15 guys showing up to the race it is not unusual to get the entry fee comped. And on occasion they will pay your travel food and lodging costs and give you some extra spending cash just for for showing up to the race.

 

[Transcend]

Big Bear's Response:

Hi Butch,
Tom isn't in so I'll answer your email.........

Pro/Semi Pro Men will race an Omnium at Deer Valley and your $75 entry fee
includes both events: Downhill and Super D. Pro/Semi Pro will not pay chair
lift fees at Deer Valley.

I hope this answers your question regarding your fees.

Janet Pecoraro

Team Big Bear Mountain Bikes
PO Box 2932
Big Bear Lake, CA 92315

909.866.4565 voice 909.866.5410 fax

That is total crap, REQUIRING you to race a gravity omnium. LAME.

 

[ÆX]

that is what i am saying.

I just hope everyone realized the gravity
of this type of control the promotion company has!

they are changing the way it will be for the future.

mark my words.


thats nothing to smile @

 

[NateH]

If you guys want anything to change do what i'm going to do, don't go.

 

[santacruzer87]

Thats not all Norba's fault though. I think we should all be complaining to Team Big Bear or whoever organizes this one.

-Ryan

 

[Frankenschwinn]

Thats not all Norba's fault though. I think we should all be complaining to Team Big Bear or whoever organizes this one.

-Ryan

Norba should have cost controls in place. If promoters need to make more money then find other ways besides the entry fee. get creative and offer something worth paying more for. National entry fees should be standardized. Any well run series has standard race fees across the board as well as standard start times and practice times

 

[stiksandstones]

Fees etc...are out of control, where is DHtahoe when you need him?

 

[HearNOevil]

That's it! I am done with bikes, I am going to ski's!

 

[Metal]

OK, you win.
That blows as well.

It is just that I really used to think that the nationals were a bargain back in the day. They were always an awesome experience until recently.
Oh well, what can we do? The price we pay for the love of bike riding.

The reason why I even did my first national was because I would be able to ride for 3 days at Durango for only $40. I didn't even care about the race. I figuered it would just be worth the 3 days of riding I would get.
I didn't really know much back then, so I didn't know about the different practice schedules, but I still got quite a bit of riding in on a fun course.

 

[dhtahoe]

Fees etc...are out of control, where is DHtahoe when you need him?

Ping.... here I am. If it was not Deer Valley I would not go, but that place rules. As far as the fees go... damn Do you see a take the money and run move coming from TBB. Maybe they are just trying to make a bunch of money and move to Mexico or something before the lawsuit drains them... I would.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

It truly is amazing how much we don't know but pretend we do. We judge people for doing things we don't like but don't understand why or what their reasons are. Like parents, cops, any authority figure. We whine and complain but really when it comes down to it, we do nothing to change things or get involved. Armchair QB's. Life is life, get used to it...GET INVOLVED.

 

[OGDMFG]

Tell me why we have to pay for the lift for the pro/semi pros
when they are the one who have at least some sponsorship,and we still
get bent over the barrel

 

[W4S]

It truly is amazing how much we don't know but pretend we do. We judge people for doing things we don't like but don't understand why or what their reasons are. Like parents, cops, any authority figure. We whine and complain but really when it comes down to it, we do nothing to change things or get involved. Armchair QB's. Life is life, get used to it...GET INVOLVED.

It's kinda hard to get involved when TBB will never give a straight answer about their intentions, i.e., requiring a gravity omnium, reducing practice time, etc. I don't agree with their vision of DH racing. Yeah, I'm getting involved, I'm boycotting all TBB events and spending money on other promoters races.

 

[profro]

Tell me why we have to pay for the lift for the pro/semi pros
when they are the one who have at least some sponsorship,and we still
get bent over the barrel

pro means you are a professional and that you should get paid. Unfortunately they don't anymore. At least from NORBA or TBB, so maybe its to compensate for that?????

 

[bizutch]

Tell me why we have to pay for the lift for the pro/semi pros
when they are the one who have at least some sponsorship,and we still
get bent over the barrel

ummm...you call me having to pay $75.00 not "paying" for the lift? Especially adding to the fact that you're gonna get handed the same t-shirt and medal as me if we're both in the top 5 of our respective categories? ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink: ink:

 

[OGDMFG]

I should have stated that as the average expert racer pays almost as much as the semi/pros if you add in the cost of lift passes. I am sorry if it offends you if the the general race public is being priced out of of sport

 

[davetrump]

Tell me why we have to pay for the lift for the pro/semi pros when they are the one who have at least some sponsorship,and we still
get bent over the barrel

I should have stated that as the average expert racer pays almost as much as the semi/pros if you add in the cost of lift passes. I am sorry if it offends you if the the general race public is being priced out of of sport

haahaahaaah... you make it sound like pro riders don't pay out of pocket just like everyone else. 90% of the pro riders pay their own way on EVERYTHING. most sponsorship's these days get you discounts on parts, and if lucky you might get something free once in a while.

get passed you illusion that "pro" riders have it easy. travel, lodging, enty fee's all come out of pocket

everyone is getting hosed here, and one group isn't paying for the other

 

[OGDMFG]

We are all getting screwed pros /semi/ experts we are paying way too much
to these promoters.So sorry if I have offended anyone with my rants.

 

[stiksandstones]

It truly is amazing how much we don't know but pretend we do. We judge people for doing things we don't like but don't understand why or what their reasons are. Like parents, cops, any authority figure. We whine and complain but really when it comes down to it, we do nothing to change things or get involved. Armchair QB's. Life is life, get used to it...GET INVOLVED.

Somewhat agreed, but they are running a business. This business is supplying a service/product. The prices are high and the customer service is bad-no one can ever get a straight answer except how "hard it is to promote a race, hard it is to find a venue...blah blah blah". If my wife and our partners ran our business like this we would be OUT of business. Perhaps it just comes down to the fact they are selling a product no one wants, I dont know? But some change is needed. Sometimes I think just a whole new group of people could solve the issues, a new , fresh, unjaded group of people???

Fact of the matter is, there is a problem and no one knows how to fix it. I will say that many people have offered advice to NORBA, TBB and Blue Wolf and not always is the advice taken-sometimes great advice. I have never been on the side of being upset about practice times or entry fees, so I am taking what I read here with a grain of salt and learning as I go, but I do know there is a dozen other issues with these guys-in addition to this fees dilemma.

 

[Fonzie18]

You make racing what you want it. Saddens me to hear a bunch of bitching about the price of racing when if you stop and think about it, it is not a big deal. There are infinite examples that I can give to show how much of a big deal this IS NOT:
Sagebrush safari in San Diego, first face of the Cal State series, entry fee: $60 for a lame course that most raced on hardtails.
North Star, I paid my entry fee of $55 then had to purchase a lift ticket which was $30 a day.

I will be going to the Deer Valley nationals because I like to ride and race my bike. Granted, the heightened entry fee is a slight disappointment, but the fact that it includes the SuperD entry fee makes it a litte less disappointing.

It's hard to comprehend how boycotting a National will make the racing situation better. But I guess if you go out to the race and are going to complain about the course, entry fee, practice times, staff, blah then you should just stay home. You make your own experience, and I am definitely looking forward to the Deer Valley National. I'm going to bed......

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Marla Streb has been involved with NORBA this year and she has noted that they are doing a good job and there is so much more involved than she knew. She's a vet, she's mature, and she's intelligent. If she is seeing things on the inside and saying she has hope then it gives me some too. I have had bad and horrible experiences racing, this Sea otter was the worst but if I bag out without a truly strong motive what am I saying? The new Mountain Bike Action has the new GEneral manager of Norba giving an interview, check it out.

 

[ÆX]

we "the concerned members of ridemonkey" have talked about this before.

only conclusion i had any faith in was a whole new licensing body.



other options that will not work and why are:

boycotts:
not everyone will do it. not effective means of portraying our complaints

norba:
doesn't listen to there body,will not make rules for promoters for there series.

 

[W4S]

It's hard to comprehend how boycotting a National will make the racing situation better. But I guess if you go out to the race and are going to complain about the course, entry fee, practice times, staff, blah then you should just stay home. You make your own experience, and I am definitely looking forward to the Deer Valley National. I'm going to bed......

Couldn't agree more, you make your own experiences. I'm never going to make a living riding my bike, I race for fun. When a promoter seemingly goes out of their way to make racing more difficult, less fun and more expensive, I stop going, money talks. I'd love to go to Deer Valley, I've heard that course is awesome, but I don't want to race SuperD and I don't think I should be forced to pay for an event I have no interest in. My problem with TBB is that their decisions seem to be arbitrary and self serving. That's fine, but I don't need to support them. That being said, I'll probably still go because I do believe in the future of the sport, and I do want to support the support and the riders.

 

[stiksandstones]

Fonzie, you bitch about Sagebrush, but I "think" thats a Team Big Bear race.

 

[stiksandstones]

Marla Streb has been involved with NORBA this year and she has noted that they are doing a good job and there is so much more involved than she knew. She's a vet, she's mature, and she's intelligent. If she is seeing things on the inside and saying she has hope then it gives me some too. I have had bad and horrible experiences racing, this Sea otter was the worst but if I bag out without a truly strong motive what am I saying? The new Mountain Bike Action has the new GEneral manager of Norba giving an interview, check it out.

She is far LESS involved that you think or heard.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Well, I hope that's from personal knowledge and not just speculation, because she said it herself. Not me, just quoting someone with influence and position.

 

[bizutch]

Be all end all of the whole argument is that the promoter is the party responsible for putting up prize money and pulling in all the cash sponsors to pay the purse. That I think is THE KEY! Blue Wolf and Team Big Bear have failed to bring a big company to the table to foot the sponsorship and purse. If you are a race promoter at that level and cannot raise enough money to allocate a PURSE, you should not hold an event.

Even just allocationg $1.00 from every entry in DH for the pros and the same in XC...that's gives you SOMETHING! The promoters are refusing to part with even THAT much money for the winners.

$5000.00 is money I could raise for a regional event. It is NOTHING to a corporation to put up the pro purse. Since Pros are showing up to race without a purse, the promoter has decided they don't have to pay one!

I paid $35-40.00 for my first National back in 1995 and drove a long way to get there and got poored on int he rain and it was mostly an uphill red clay mud bog. I had fun and didn't really complain. I saw the pros win big money, friends win helmets, forks, drivetrains, etc. WIth inflation, the improved courses, the fantastic timing system and excellent locations....I honestly wouldn't have a problem paying $60-70.00 now because I KNOW how much it costs to run the lifts.

BUT, when you factor in that myself and every other rider who shows up to race stands to walk away with a $2.00 medal and NOTHING ELSE, then suddenly:
I have much less interest in showing up.
I tend to complain about the time I get on the hill.
I complain about the cost of entry fees
I complain about the sanctioning body that is tied to the event
I complain about the resort itself being greedy.
I complain about the start official in the gate.
I complain about the timing and question it.
I complain about the heat.
I complain about the distance from my home.

Bottom line is that prizes and a PURSE for pros will break the chain of complaints...

 

[profro]

You make racing what you want it. Saddens me to hear a bunch of bitching about the price of racing when if you stop and think about it, it is not a big deal.

But here's the rub...

Why should I fly across the country to get 5 hrs of riding my bike over 4 days? When I plop down the money to fly, fly my bike, get a rental car, get lodging and pay to race I'd like a little more time to ride.

I flew to Bootleg this winter to race. The entry fee was $75. A tad high for a local race, but I got probably 5 hrs of practice Saturday and probably 3 hrs of practice on Sunday, plus a whole day of riding on Monday. Too me it was worth the trip.

But to fly to Deer Valley for 5 hrs. Its just not worth it. Makes a Whistler trip real attractive. Its sucks that the National Series promoter is makings its customer pick something else over the National Series.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Fox, Go-ride, Jeep. The downieville pro race has a 5000 purse. U.s.Open.-purse. You are right, it is not hard to get a purse going but whining is about as condusive to change as throwing rocks at a flat tire. It just adds to the problem and makes you look silly.

 

[stiksandstones]

Fox, Go-ride, Jeep. The downieville pro race has a 5000 purse. U.s.Open.-purse. You are right, it is not hard to get a purse going but whining is about as condusive to change as throwing rocks at a flat tire. It just adds to the problem and makes you look silly.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease...

If they hear enough complaining maybe they will realize they need to go get some money for their series. I have said it before but GT was willing to pay prize money in 2003 and 2004 (for 4x), no one ever got back to us!

They always say they cant afford to hire someone to go get them some outside money. What business do you know that did not invest in themselves?

 

[two1]

Could someone tell me why Pro is 85 bucks and expert is 50 bucks? There's no purse for pro, so they offer the same things to pro and expert...right? Practice and a timed race run, thats it. So why the price difference?

 

[ÆX]

will there ever be a promotion company to oust TBB?

 

[stiksandstones]

Could someone tell me why Pro is 85 bucks and expert is 50 bucks? There's no purse for pro, so they offer the same things to pro and expert...right? Practice and a timed race run, thats it. So why the price difference?

To quote a promoter once when I asked this question "The pros get their entry fees paid"

 

[Transcend]

bizutch, you are my redneck, pabst drinking hero! Your post nailed it...100%. Screw norba.

I VOLUNTEERED to find them prize money...guess what..they didn't respond. This was AFTER they posted a plea looking for help on multiple sources..they just ignored me. Funny how i can find $$ to fun a team..enough cash to pay at least an events full pro purse, for a team of 6 riders who can JUST qualify for a WC. Yet they cant find $5000 for a pro event that used to be televised???

Something if wrong here, they should go into another line of work..maybe begging on the corner would work? Some of those guys in NYC pull in $400 a day...

 

[two1]

To quote a promoter once when I asked this question "The pros get their entry fees paid"

Ohhh, that makes sense, just rip off the sponsors of riders. They wont care....their rich!! Privateers prepare for anal entry!

 

[Transcend]

Ohhh, that makes sense, just rip off the sponsors of riders. They wont care....their rich!! Privateers prepare for anal entry!

If you have a pro license, race local WCs. Way more fun, way better atmosphere, WAY better riding time (like 16 hours ofpractice over 3-4 days), 2 race day runs + practice and get treated like a pro...and have a purse.

If you are euro you are lucky as air travel in europe is fairly cheap..

 

[santacruzer87]

This makes me sad, this will be my first year at Nationals and it doesn't sound like fun............

-Ryan