[Tattooo]

Maybe someone out there can help me with this...

I bought my 05 Demo last October, played around with it in Reno until the snow fell. All seemed well once I changed the fork (went from an 888R to an RC and had Marzocchi put in the Heavy Brother kit), put on a chain guide that worked, and bought a new 550# spring. I thought the setup was pretty dialed, no major complaints.

Over the winter I went to flat crowns and a 550# Ti spring and some DeeMax wheels. Those were the only changes other then a new headset.

For this entire season I have felt as if I am way too far foreward on this bike, and it damn sure has let me know it a few times. I am constantly getting bucked over the front, and its starting to take a toll on the body.

Is there some sort of magic voodoo other then not being a fat ass to get the balance back on this bike? Any help would be good, I have been limping for two weeks since the last time I tried to make forced love to a rock at Wisp.

 

[jonKranked]

the flat crowns lowered the front end an inch.

also the rebound on your rear shock might be too fast.

 

[Racerx7734]

Where are you in Reno..........I ride and live in Reno....... I could check it out.

 

[Cant Climb]

sounds like your 888 is diving.
with flat crowns this can be a big issue.

is it a 2005....?....is the compession sleeve installed...?

 

[davep]

Speed up the rebound on the fork, slow it down a bit in the rear.

Oh yea what he ^^ said, the low speed comp sleeve can do wonders for fork diving. You can even fashion one yourself if you are mech inclined at all.

 

[jonKranked]

sounds like your 888 is diving.
with flat crowns this can be a big issue.

is it a 2005....?....is the compession sleeve installed...?

the flat crowns put it at the height it *should* be at for a 8" fork. thats why several companies have been making aftermarket crowns for them. the older ones (w/ the drop crowns) are an inch too high. This is widely known.

 

[Cant Climb]

the flat crowns put it at the height it *should* be at for a 8" fork. thats why several companies have been making aftermarket crowns for them. the older ones (w/ the drop crowns) are an inch too high. This is widely known.

with the flat crowns there is more weight foward in certain situations.....i'm a fairly big and with the flat crowns and xFirm springs i was blowing through 80% of the travel when i would hit the brakes hard......if he puts the compressions sleeve on it will eliminate most of this....

Tattoo is a heavy load.....i wonder what they did to set it up for him....

 

[jonKranked]

ah. does the compression sleeve do the same thing as low speed compression adjustment that's found on the newer 888's?

 

[Cant Climb]

ah. does the compression sleeve do the same thing as low speed compression adjustment that's found on the newer 888's?

yes........the new external adjustment is supposed to fix the same problem the sleeve was fixxing.....

 

[Monkeybidnezz]

Like the others said, flat crowns and possibly the shock set up. Having the shock mounted in the higher setting will steepen you HA, vs the lower mount which will slacken the ride.

 

[trailhacker]

the flat crowns put it at the height it *should* be at for a 8" fork. thats why several companies have been making aftermarket crowns for them. the older ones (w/ the drop crowns) are an inch too high. This is widely known.

But weren't the Demo and a few other frames (VPFree ?) designed around the 888 with standard crowns?
The Demo 9's are spec'd with standard crowns and the 8's are speced with either a Fox40 or a 888 with flat crowns. Makes me think they compensated for the tall A-C height in the geometry. When I rode a Fox40 on my Demo 9 last year I had to put it at its highest point I could in the crowns to get the feel I wanted. Never had any issues with the 888 feeling too tall.

I would say definitely turn the compresion up in the fork, rebound down in the rear shock. Someone said turn up the rebound in the fork earlier but I am not sure that would help it with diving? I could be wrong though.
Also, I've never had a Ti spring but from what I understand you go about 50#'s lighter with the Ti than with steel. If you replaced a 550 steel with a 550 Ti that might be hurting you too.

 

[A.P]

Also, I've never had a Ti spring but from what I understand you go about 50#'s lighter with the Ti than with steel. If you replaced a 550 steel with a 550 Ti that might be hurting you too.

mmm, no. A spring is wound to the same standards regardless of the material its made out of. A 500 lb spring made of ti and a 500lb spring made of steel will both sag identically. The ti will just be lighter.

 

[Tattooo]

I am thinking that the suggestion of changing down the rear compression and working on the front rebound might do the trick. I also think that fooling with the settings for HA might be a good place to start. The downside is that I am now living in Virginia Beach, and so there is no good ping pong trail to test the new settings.

As for the 888 set up that Zocchi did for me, they changed the new sleeve in for me, with three holes covered, and then went with two x-firm springs for me. I am a big load, 250lbs of charging crack head rhino, and so it needed to be firm. I am thinking part of it is that I have not messed with the knobs on top enough. I just read over the go-ride.com articles on playing with the knobs, so that's happening next.

I also think its that I had my brakes set up wrong. Glazed pads and black rotors are not my buddies. Just need to keep playing with it. She's a tank, but oh do I love her so.

 

[trailhacker]

mmm, no. A spring is wound to the same standards regardless of the material its made out of. A 500 lb spring made of ti and a 500lb spring made of steel will both sag identically. The ti will just be lighter.

Odd?
When talking to a guy locally (that works for RCS) he said that for the Swinger if I am running a 550 I should run a 500 in Ti. Had something to do with the characteristics of the metals.
Didn't pull the trigger as I was sure I was getting a DHX and there was an issue with clearance on the resivour with that big a spring in Ti.
Sully from Rotec said pretty much the same thing?

 

[Tattooo]

Honestly I prefer the Ti. The property of the metal makes it more progressive, and it retains the bounce better then steel.

And its pretty.

 

[davep]

Odd?
When talking to a guy locally (that works for RCS) he said that for the Swinger if I am running a 550 I should run a 500 in Ti. Had something to do with the characteristics of the metals.
Didn't pull the trigger as I was sure I was getting a DHX and there was an issue with clearance on the resivour with that big a spring in Ti.
Sully from Rotec said pretty much the same thing?

Did Duane tell you that? He works on some pretty crazy sh1t down there but a lot of that stuff is 'experimental' as i understand. From a material standpoint there is no reason to change the rate of spring when changing to ti. You could argue that because it is lighter, that it has less inertia and could rebound a little faster, but the change in total unsprung weight on a bike is minimal...3% maybe

 

[Kram]

I am thinking that the suggestion of changing down the rear compression and working on the front rebound might do the trick.

Maybe the other way round? Slow down the rear rebound so it doesn't ping you over the front.

 

[Tattooo]

Right, that's what I meant.

 

[Taro]

I have a 9 DH from 04 and i try the flat crown for a day and change right back . I loved the flat crown on my bighit with a 8" 888 but not on the demo , the front is to low and it mess up the balance (weight shift to much to the front ). Using the standart crowns with the sleeve seem the best choice for that bike . Oh , and i'm 240 ponds 6.1 guy , so i know how bad it can be when the weight shift on that bike .... went down hard because of it . Somebody posted something about spez building that frame with the 888 in mind and i think he's right , they made the front hight for that ... i'm curious how the bike rides with other (shorter) forks .

 

[Tattooo]

Sounds like the story of my summer. Alright, I'll go swap back to the bigger crowns, see if that pushes the balance back.

 

[trailhacker]

Did Duane tell you that? He works on some pretty crazy sh1t down there but a lot of that stuff is 'experimental' as i understand. From a material standpoint there is no reason to change the rate of spring when changing to ti. You could argue that because it is lighter, that it has less inertia and could rebound a little faster, but the change in total unsprung weight on a bike is minimal...3% maybe

Didn't want to bring his name into it but yeah. But now that I am thinking about it, I might have mis-understood what he was talking about as it was a pretty encompassing conversation about different bikes and shocks and springs.
BUT, Sully did tell me he typically recomends a 50 # lighter spring in Ti. It might be his frame vs. other frames though.

Tattoo, if you still have the standard crowns try swapping them out. Seems like the cheapest thing to try? I am 5'10", around 250 and ride a large. I have the stock fork from an '04 Demo9 Pro (the RR?) and the only thing done was one firmer spring and the modified sleeve and the bike feels good to me. Never had any problems with over the bars feel.

 

[Tattooo]

I am going to swap the headset race tonight, then put the old crowns on. I broke down and called Specialized and confirmed that they worked around the geometry of the 888 with the tall crown.

With mine it isn't an "over the bars" feel, its my fat ass being shot into orbit (which is no small feat) when I get just a second too lazy and forward... Hopefully swapping to the old crowns will help.

Anyone want to buy some 888 flat crowns?

 

[basikbiker]

how much?

 

[trailhacker]

I broke down and called Specialized and confirmed that they worked around the geometry of the 888 with the tall crown.

DUUUDDDEEE!!!!!!
Your never supposed to do that!?! Your supposed to rely on heresay and conjecture gleened from the intranet...

 

[Demomonkey]

Slow down your rear shock rebound. Lower crowns shouldnt be causing that problem.

 

[JeffD]

Anyone want to buy some 888 flat crowns?

I might if you'll be at the last SS race.

 

[Tattooo]

I'll go $65 on them. However, the Chirs King Race is going on the old crowns.

Specialized explained that they designed into the frame the height of the fork as my bike is an 04, not an 05 (bless serial numbers.) As such, taking the two or so inches out really stuck the bike forward. Also, as an added bonus they said this would make the steering twitchy and the bike super sensitive at over high speed bumps. Sounds a lot like what was going on when I used my fat ass to stop some rocks.

However, the entire upside of taking the digger is that I made a Navy doctor tell me that my fat saved me from injury. He really didn't want to say it, but he admitted it was true.

 

[atrokz]

go back to drop crowns.

edit, doh. too late...