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Democratic Party hero, Chavez's home country

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
A true liberal utopia!

PAIN IN SLUMS OF CHAVEZ
By DOUGLAS MONTERO

October 3, 2006 -- I'D LIKE Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez to meet one of his countrymen, 15-year-old Manuel Gonzalez.

Manuel, who's never been to school, lives in a tin-roofed shack with walls made of slabs of half-inch-thick wood, cardboard and flattened oil drums. His "house" clings precariously to La Vega, one of hundreds of hillside slums that dot Chavez's oil-rich capital.

Each day, Manuel lugs buckets of water or propane tanks so his pregnant mother, 12-year-old sister and 1-year-old brother can eat, bathe and flush the toilet.

"I'm scared. I don't want to live here, but I have to take care of my family," Manuel told me.

Chavez should come here, as I did, to see firsthand his country's horrific underbelly - the worsening poverty that he neglects even as he pretends to be a champion of the poor.

It'd be a better use of his time than trips abroad and to New York, where Chavez created an uproar last month by denouncing President Bush as "sick," an "alcoholic" and the "devil."

Here, it seems the devil is closer to home.

At night, Manuel's mother loops a thick chain through a hole in their shanty's thin metal door to barricade her family from murderous teen thieves who roam with impunity.

"Three kids under the age of 18 are murdered in Venezuela every day," said Fernando Pereira, a coordinator for CECODAP, a nonprofit human-rights group trying to save children.

"We don't know of any government program that exists to combat this phenomenon."

The astounding youth death rate belies the public persona Chavez exhibits whenever he comes to New York and eagerly embraces, and sometimes kisses, every little kid he sees.

Chavez recently proclaimed during a ceremony announcing a $16 million plan to rehabilitate 704 homes in a shantytown that extreme poverty has dropped from 21 to 10 percent. But critics say 50 percent of the county's 26 million inhabitants earn less than $2 a day.

Luis Pedro Espana, director of the Economic and Social Research Institute at the Andres Bello Catholic University, said poverty has remained constant since Chavez was elected president in 1998 - despite the country's oil wealth.

Only 10 percent of the work force has jobs, while 52 percent are "freelancers" - street vendors or people who sell goods from their homes, Espana said.

He complained Chavez's socialist, anti-big-business rhetoric and actions have scared off private investors, who currently support only 10 percent of the job market, compared to 25 percent in the 1970s.

"It's not just the issue of how many people are working, it's the quality of the jobs and the low wages that come with it," he said.

Take unemployed Pedro José Flores, 24, whom I met while he was fighting off buzzard-like birds and dodging bulldozers at a garbage dump, searching for metal and paper to sell.

"I have a wife and three kids I have to feed," he said. "There are no jobs out here, and you have to produce to survive."

His kids, 1, 3 and 6, will be lucky to see their 18th birthdays - and have almost no chance of a decent job if they do.

In fact, a recent study conducted by Espana's group shows fewer parents are putting their children into the elementary schools that exist.

"There is a feeling among parents that it's just not worth sending their children to school because a high-school graduate is ill prepared to enter the work force," said Pereira.

While some, like Pereira, give Chavez credit for trying to help parents buy school supplies and combat the dropout rate, they fume that he's done little to create jobs that could absorb the 300,000 people who enter the job market every year.

"For a crisis of this magnitude, it is a shame that there hasn't been any attempt to change the system," said Pereira.

The poverty and lack of jobs have bred out-of-control crime.

Of the estimated 12,000 homicides every year, 90 percent of the victims are men between the ages of 15 and 35.

Manuel's never even been to school. His mother, Thaivis Castro, 32, thought the Chavez government would make room for her son, but they only offered him night school.

"Are you crazy? I'm not going to let my son go out at night so that he gets killed," she said.

Manuel stood a few nights ago in their kitchen, sadly using a dirty rag to wipe the sink.

"I want to go to school because I want to become a policeman when I get older," he said.

A 15-year-old who wants to work and be a productive member of society hasn't even started school yet.

Hugo, who's the devil now?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
That kind of poverty can be found in most Central and South American countries. Its not exactly news and Venezuela is not an outlier in this phenomenon :clue:
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Also most Central/Southern American countries are conservative, not liberal utopias.

Its very easy to get out paying most of your taxes. With corrupt politicians and almost no money for the government there is all sort of fun to be had by all. The infrastructure is great, just trying driving on the roads or getting basic services - electric, water, sewer, telecom, etc. BTW, this is in a "stable" country, Costa Rica.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
No more that Iraq, detainees or GWB's intelligence level but somehow that seems to be what gets talked about.
Chavez's domestic performance doesn't really affect me that much. Iraq, state sanctioned torture, and a retarded president are a little closer to home.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
I can't trust any information coming out of that country since I saw "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" where it was clear how ALL private owned TV channels were in on the disinformation that led to the coup.

Surely that country has a lot of problems but compairing it to the 70's and blaming it all on Chavez's government that has been in office since 98 is ridiculous. If they didn't feel threatened by a US invasion they would surely be spending a lot less on arms too..

You should put your own country in that comparisson; worlds richest country but in Dixie land African-Americans live in conditions that are plain scary. The poverty among that people and lack of funding the high schools they send their kids to was somthing I first thought looked like 50-60 USA, but was confused since the quality of the colours in that program showed that it was filmed waaay later than that. It was 21'st century...
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
I can't trust any information coming out of that country since I saw "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" where it was clear how ALL private owned TV channels were in on the disinformation that led to the coup.

Surely that country has a lot of problems but compairing it to the 70's and blaming it all on Chavez's government that has been in office since 98 is ridiculous. If they didn't feel threatened by a US invasion they would surely be spending a lot less on arms too..

You should put your own country in that comparisson; worlds richest country but in Dixie land African-Americans live in conditions that are plain scary. The poverty among that people and lack of funding the high schools they send their kids to was somthing I first thought looked like 50-60 USA, but was confused since the quality of the colours in that program showed that it was filmed waaay later than that. It was 21'st century...
You just don't want to believe what clashes with what you "know". It really is interesting what you chose to believe and not believe.

I live in Dixie and it is not quite the hell hole pit you have been led to believe. But oh that probably clashes with what you "know" so just go ahead and discount it.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Also most Central/Southern American countries are conservative, not liberal utopias.
Chavez claims to be a socialist, so that would be a socialist utopia then but N8 seems to love bashing the libs as much as he can..
8 years of ruling doesn't create an utopia. Reagan's and Bush sr's 12 years in a row didn't create a conservative utopia did it?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Chavez claims to be a socialist, so that would be a socialist utopia then but N8 seems to love bashing the libs as much as he can..
8 years of ruling doesn't create an utopia. Reagan's and Bush sr's 12 years in a row didn't create a conservative utopia did it?
He's a socialist flush with oil money, and his poverty numbers are getting WORSE.

That's mismangement right up there with anything Bush has done.

edit: Were getting worse, I don't pay much attention to Chavez stories, so the last one I read was early in the year. Here's some stuff from the Economist (Feb 10, 2006):

Higher prices have quadrupled Venezuela's annual revenue from oil exports since 1998. Nevertheless, the country's Catholic bishops claimed last month that poverty was “accelerating rapidly”. Not so, replied Mr Chávez . It has “begun to decrease, slowly and progressively”.

In the five years to 2003, Mr Chávez's performance was disastrous (see chart). The proportion of households below the poverty line increased by more than 11 percentage points. By 2003, a quarter of Venezuelans were living in “extreme poverty”, unable even to feed themselves adequately. It was the first time since data were collected that poverty rose even as the oil price did too. Government incompetence was not the sole cause. Acute political conflict, including a two-month strike and business lockout, which shut down the oil industry, played a big part.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
You just don't want to believe what clashes with what you "know". It really is interesting what you chose to believe and not believe.

I live in Dixie and it is not quite the hell hole pit you have been led to believe. But oh that probably clashes with what you "know" so just go ahead and discount it.
About Dixie, that is what I saw on that TV social program. It wasn't staged or photoshoped. I'm sure that is not the common thing but there are obviously such exeptions. The people in that documentary program were all black. I guess you are white and because of that might never have come in contact with areas like that.

In this case about what news comes out of Venezuela I chose to question that more than I question everything else. What I know from my experiances has led to this. Watch the documentary http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the+revolution+will+not+be+televised
for your self and I'm positive you will see it the same way.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
He's a socialist flush with oil money, and his poverty numbers are getting WORSE.

That's mismangement right up there with anything Bush has done.

edit: Were getting worse, I don't pay much attention to Chavez stories, so the last one I read was early in the year. Here's some stuff from the Economist (Feb 10, 2006):

Higher prices have quadrupled Venezuela's annual revenue from oil exports since 1998. Nevertheless, the country's Catholic bishops claimed last month that poverty was “accelerating rapidly”. Not so, replied Mr Chávez . It has “begun to decrease, slowly and progressively”.

In the five years to 2003, Mr Chávez's performance was disastrous (see chart). The proportion of households below the poverty line increased by more than 11 percentage points. By 2003, a quarter of Venezuelans were living in “extreme poverty”, unable even to feed themselves adequately. It was the first time since data were collected that poverty rose even as the oil price did too. Government incompetence was not the sole cause. Acute political conflict, including a two-month strike and business lockout, which shut down the oil industry, played a big part.
Again, it's hard to know what to belive since it's a propaganda war from both sides. I have to go on my previous experiances when it comes to choosing a side here (without deeply reading up on the subject my self). The Vatican and the majority of their priests also fall under that experiance, as does big coorporate media.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,248
408
NY
Yes, but this is an oil rich country unlike the rest of S. America...
Personally he's more republican than Democrat.

Sure he's claims to be leftist but look at his policies. They're all about making him rich.
He gave the poor people a little food. Just enough to get them to the polls to vote.
He uses religious ideas and words at every chance, just like the Republicans!
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Again, it's hard to know what to belive since it's a propaganda war from both sides. I have to go on my previous experiances when it comes to choosing a side here (without deeply reading up on the subject my self). The Vatican and the majority of their priests also fall under that experiance, as does big coorporate media.
Oil prices aren't subject to propoganda manipulation.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
I was refering to the situation described in Venezuela by the media and the catholic priests.
Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The objective fact is that Chavez is rolling in oil money, and he's not doing the socialist thing (which would be distributing it among the people who elected him.) Instead he's out distributing largesse and trying to buy himself a seat on the Security Council.

He uses Bush just like Bush uses gays and terrorists.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Again, it's hard to know what to belive since it's a propaganda war from both sides. I have to go on my previous experiances when it comes to choosing a side here (without deeply reading up on the subject my self). The Vatican and the majority of their priests also fall under that experiance, as does big coorporate media.
You ought to take a trip to Venezeula. Its a real sweet heart of a country. One of my very first assignments was there in early 1997. Having been back since Chavez taking over is nothing short of shocking. Though if you go you better be ready because what you "know" is going to get seriously dented.

I love how you characterized Dixie from a TV show. Just watch the Dukes of Hazzard you can see how we white folk live. Plus they have these huge walls they put between the blacks and us, so its hard to say how they may actually live. I haven't ever seen a black person in the flesh. I think they maybe a media creation to make me feel guilt.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
About Dixie, that is what I saw on that TV social program. It wasn't staged or photoshoped. I'm sure that is not the common thing but there are obviously such exeptions. The people in that documentary program were all black. I guess you are white and because of that might never have come in contact with areas like that.

In this case about what news comes out of Venezuela I chose to question that more than I question everything else. What I know from my experiances has led to this. Watch the documentary http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the+revolution+will+not+be+televised
for your self and I'm positive you will see it the same way.
Dude, please just quit posting crap like this. There are poor communities all over "Dixie" and yeah, some of them are black and some of them are not. I live in the south and there are equally poor communities of whites throughout appalachia. Of course, you've probably never heard of "appalachia" because there isnt a some TV program about it. You should travel sometime.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Of course, you've probably never heard of "appalachia" because there isnt a some TV program about it. You should travel sometime.
Agreed...

There are rural poor all over the US in third-world conditions, not just in the place that was defeated in the war of Northern Agression. There's just a higher proportion there. :p
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Agreed...

There are rural poor all over the US in third-world conditions, not just in the place that was defeated in the war of Northern Agression. There's just a higher proportion there. :p
Hell. Some of it comes down to simple geography and that its just not profitable for industry take root off in the middle of nowhere. Poverty is simply unavoidable.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
Of course, you've probably never heard of "appalachia" because there isnt a some TV program about it. You should travel sometime.
Actually rockwool is in luck - there is a documentary made about some families in Appalachia that aired on TV.

David Sutherland's "Country Boys" looks at the area. Read the 'Roots of Country Boys' section for a little more insight.

Link: http://www.davidsutherland.com/films_cboys.html
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Actually rockwool is in luck - there actually is a documnetary made about some families in appalachia that aired on TV.

David Sutherland's "Country Boys" looks at the area. Read the 'Roots of Country Boys' section for a little more insight.

Link: http://www.davidsutherland.com/films_cboys.html
There was documentary years ago on HBO or Showtime on Southern Rural Poverty he could have seen (don't recall its name). Also Spike Lee's “When the Levees Broke,” more recently.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,703
1,067
behind you with a snap pop
About Dixie, that is what I saw on that TV social program. It wasn't staged or photoshoped. I'm sure that is not the common thing but there are obviously such exeptions. The people in that documentary program were all black. I guess you are white and because of that might never have come in contact with areas like that.

In this case about what news comes out of Venezuela I chose to question that more than I question everything else. What I know from my experiances has led to this. Watch the documentary http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the+revolution+will+not+be+televised
for your self and I'm positive you will see it the same way.
Are you honestly comparing poor black people in the South to poor people in Venezuela? Seriously?
I live in the heart of the South, and I grew up with a lot of black friends. My school was probaly 65 % / 35% white/black.
Most of my black friends went on to get college degrees, some went to work straight out of high school, and some hang out on the corner drinking 40's and eating government cheese. They turned out differently the same way my white friends did. They made choices.
The poor in Venezuela and places like Mexico are living in cardboard boxes with no running water and they have to try to produce their own food, because the government cheese ain't coming.
They have no choices.

See here is where you are getting confused, Chavez has always been known as an asshat. Just because he is currently attacking the world's choice for asshat of the decade does not make him one of the good guys.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,371
10,301
I love how you characterized Dixie from a TV show. Just watch the Dukes of Hazzard you can see how we white folk live. Plus they have these huge walls they put between the blacks and us, so its hard to say how they may actually live. I haven't ever seen a black person in the flesh. I think they maybe a media creation to make me feel guilt.
I could take pictures of the hispanic, african american, and asian families in my neighborhood, but he might think they were photo-shopped or hired actors.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,261
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
I can't trust any information coming out of that country since I saw "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" where it was clear how ALL private owned TV channels were in on the disinformation that led to the coup.

Surely that country has a lot of problems but compairing it to the 70's and blaming it all on Chavez's government that has been in office since 98 is ridiculous. If they didn't feel threatened by a US invasion they would surely be spending a lot less on arms too..

You should put your own country in that comparisson; worlds richest country but in Dixie land African-Americans live in conditions that are plain scary. The poverty among that people and lack of funding the high schools they send their kids to was somthing I first thought looked like 50-60 USA, but was confused since the quality of the colours in that program showed that it was filmed waaay later than that. It was 21'st century...
i´ve lived in dixie.
and my opinion, based in part on anecdotal evidence from going to school up there and part on my summer job as a waiter on why most poor americans are poor (black, white, hispanic or whatever), is just because they are lazy, are crackheads, are too horny and too stupid to figure out condom usage, or just dont give a damn about getting out of the hole.

i believe the achievement of some hard working illegals who arrive not talking a word of english, and leave with enough money in their pockets to earn a decent living for the rest of their lives back home, is a good anecdotal indicator on that.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
People are poor because they're lazy. Lol at trust fund boy here. Like you'd know about the poor, you drive past them in everyday in the car daddy bought you. Window up of course, stinks where they live.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,261
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
People are poor because they're lazy. Lol at trust fund boy here. Like you'd know about the poor, you drive past them in everyday in the car daddy bought you. Window up of course, stinks where they live.
lol, i said IN THE US.
on why most poor americans. i guess that wasnt clear enough.

to be poor in the US, is like to starve in the middle of a cornfield. honestly, you just cant tell me people who are born americans and end up dirt poor arent just malfunctioning in some trascendental way. its not like there arent any jobs, or there isnt any government help, or there is a famine to worry about up there.

other places are different ballgames though.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
Did that guy just say 3 teen murders a day is an "astounding youth death rate"?

I wonder how that compares to any major US city?
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,261
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
Did that guy just say 3 teen murders a day is an "astounding youth death rate"?

I wonder how that compares to any major US city?
i guess that was a try at identifying the reader with one dramatic case to illustrate a bigger reality. desechables is the word for those kids in colombia. means "disposable people".
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1994/colombia/gener1.htm

there are similar things going on in colombia, venezuela and brazil.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The objective fact is that Chavez is rolling in oil money, and he's not doing the socialist thing (which would be distributing it among the people who elected him.) Instead he's out distributing largesse and trying to buy himself a seat on the Security Council.

He uses Bush just like Bush uses gays and terrorists.
Sure it does matter since media forms our views on things. The church has lost some of its power to control peoples views to the media but is still a significant player. We are all affected by these powers, and since the opposing side rarely gets their version out, we automaticly can't picture any other senario than the one portrayed.

That type of media blackout and the constant repetition of the same news is in a litteral sence brainwash.

Now, I can't trust the mainstream media for information about what is going on in Venezuela. I know they have started an alphabetization campaign to end analphabetism. I know they pay oil in exchange for over one thousand Cuban doctors to help the poor, something Venezuelan middle class doctors always have refused to do. For Chavez to do these things but not feed his own strongest voting support group? Jigga please.

Distributing largesse? Meaning??
Please tell me how he buys his votes, this is important.

I think he's got a perfectly good right to be pissed at Bush since that faild coup, and because of his statments and politics it seems like he has wipped up a frenzy in the US media (that havent affected Swedish media) that has led to people reacting so strongly about him; the massmedial effect. (THAT WAS TOTAL SPECULATION FROM MY SIDE)

And last, don't forget "Chavez is rolling in oil money" but so was the previous administrations. Tell me, was the US media as upset, about the poverty, at the other administration of the late 90's?

You ought to take a trip to Venezeula. Its a real sweet heart of a country. One of my very first assignments was there in early 1997. Having been back since Chavez taking over is nothing short of shocking. Though if you go you better be ready because what you "know" is going to get seriously dented.

I love how you characterized Dixie from a TV show. Just watch the Dukes of Hazzard you can see how we white folk live. Plus they have these huge walls they put between the blacks and us, so its hard to say how they may actually live. I haven't ever seen a black person in the flesh. I think they maybe a media creation to make me feel guilt.
Yeah, I'd like to take that trip but sadly there is no money for such thing. Unfortunaly, or fortunaly (depends on how you look at it), going there to see for my self doesn't automaticaly guarantee anything. All situations are relative and have to be compared both to their neighbours and their past.

Don't put what I said "I know" about out of context... I know how the media works. I know how media reported the coup in 2002 (it was filmed by a Belgian documentary crew that happened to be in the country at the time). I know how missleading and false media coverage has been on other stuff that is not in the liking of the western world. And since one has to taste the dish to know what it is, watch this effing documentary and you will know something more about it too. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the+revolution+will+not+be+televised

It wasn't a "TV show". It was a seroius documentary reportage done by national Swedish television, SVT. I didn't see the beginning and I don't remember everything, so that I can tell you better about it. I'm sorry. Sadly, it was no media creation eather. They probably picked the comunity of the worst scoring high school in the US (figuring there wouldn't be as heavy to report on the 50th worst example..)

Dude, please just quit posting crap like this. There are poor communities all over "Dixie" and yeah, some of them are black and some of them are not. I live in the south and there are equally poor communities of whites throughout appalachia. Of course, you've probably never heard of "appalachia" because there isnt a some TV program about it. You should travel sometime.
Of course it is, I jsut gave you one example of what I had seen and stroongly reacted to. Didn't mean that any other people than african americans have it as bad as I saw it there eather, but DRB dude is sitting infront of a coumputer daily. These guys weren't. Just meant to say he was one of the lucky and might not have come in contact with a place that was as bad as that one.

Appalachian mountains, I remeber the name from geography class in grade school or junior high. Dunno anything more about it than that though. Don't worry about me haven't traveled, I've seen a few countries but more importantly I'm second generation greek and that have given me the benefit of comparing it to Sweden from day one. That has given me more knowledge than a trip working over the summer season can give.

Hell. Some of it comes down to simple geography and that its just not profitable for industry take root off in the middle of nowhere. Poverty is simply unavoidable.
With a defence budget of ~580 billion dollars nothing is unavoidable.

Actually rockwool is in luck - there is a documentary made about some families in Appalachia that aired on TV.

David Sutherland's "Country Boys" looks at the area. Read the 'Roots of Country Boys' section for a little more insight.

Link: http://www.davidsutherland.com/films_cboys.html
Lunk?

There was documentary years ago on HBO or Showtime on Southern Rural Poverty he could have seen (don't recall its name). Also Spike Lee's &#8220;When the Levees Broke,&#8221; more recently.
No, none of them. Any good?

Are you honestly comparing poor black people in the South to poor people in Venezuela? Seriously?
I live in the heart of the South, and I grew up with a lot of black friends. My school was probaly 65 % / 35% white/black.
Most of my black friends went on to get college degrees, some went to work straight out of high school, and some hang out on the corner drinking 40's and eating government cheese. They turned out differently the same way my white friends did. They made choices.
The poor in Venezuela and places like Mexico are living in cardboard boxes with no running water and they have to try to produce their own food, because the government cheese ain't coming.
They have no choices.

See here is where you are getting confused, Chavez has always been known as an asshat. Just because he is currently attacking the world's choice for asshat of the decade does not make him one of the good guys.
There are no people living in cardboard boxes in the US? Even in the rich and freezing country of Sweden there are. It's a shame. Both our countries have had the means to stop that for decades. Both countries have defence budgets that are out of proportion. Come to think of it, in Sweden it's a new phenomena. In the 70's all these people would have lived in some form of institutions.

In comparison with Chavez, he's getting bashed now for not fixing his countrys miserys up in 8 years. I compared them 8 years to the 12 of Reagan/Bush. Intant utopia isn't the latest mix from NesCafe.

Asshat, like that word. =D

I could take pictures of the hispanic, african american, and asian families in my neighborhood, but he might think they were photo-shopped or hired actors.
If you have the means of taking and posting one of your neighbourhood, please do. I don't understand what you think it might prove, but it would be nice to see in anyway!
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
i´ve lived in dixie.
and my opinion, based in part on anecdotal evidence from going to school up there and part on my summer job as a waiter on why most poor americans are poor (black, white, hispanic or whatever), is just because they are lazy, are crackheads, are too horny and too stupid to figure out condom usage, or just dont give a damn about getting out of the hole.

i believe the achievement of some hard working illegals who arrive not talking a word of english, and leave with enough money in their pockets to earn a decent living for the rest of their lives back home, is a good anecdotal indicator on that.
Almost forgot you...sorry.

Man, you see your own abilities and think all people have them too. People are not the same. Some can't get things done for some reasons. You being a very productive and determind person don't mean everybody has that ability as well. If we were, all people would have the ability to create magnificent art. Or just any kind of art, but we can't.

Mankinds multitude in abilities are there to make us work in teams, so that we together can overcome. We aren't made to compete against each other. That just is our egos talking...