Dem's Approve US Defeat Bill
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
In other words:
Dem's have a firm grip on reality?
Dem's have a firm grip on reality?
That's awesome. Had Iran only been slightly unhelpful, we would have been done years ago.
The Dem's of course.
the troops i know and work with have less than zero love for the democrats
i really dont think thats gonna be the case.
is that your bf?
I'm not surprised you hang out with the Lindy Englunds of "down souf".
Seriously though, n8's point is a valid one. Why is it, do you think, that the military is still very much republican when they're the ones taking it in the can?
i sure dont see any officers or enlisted troops getting out because they think fighting in Iraq is a lost cause/wrong etc... what i do see is officers and enlisted people staying in knowing full well that will be going to Iraq again sooner rather than later.
but what do they know.. they're only the ones who have been over there fighting and not sitting back here in the comfort of the US listening to all the dumbasses who haven't been there (and never going to be there) tell the rest of us how bad it is and how hopeless it is and how defeated we are there.
but what do they know.. they're only the ones who have been over there fighting and not sitting back here in the comfort of the US listening to all the dumbasses who haven't been there (and never going to be there) tell the rest of us how bad it is and how hopeless it is and how defeated we are there.
i forgot that you were an expert on the us military... sorry
i've dealt with more than my share of veterans at the VA hospitals. nearly all of them speak out against the war and bush at this point.
my guess on why the currently enlisted soldiers don't actively oppose bush is because they can't for fear of retribution.
http://aclu.org/freespeech/gen/24043prs20060131.html
i was just lampooning you..Touchy.
Seriously though, the whole Iraq thing, do think it's going well? Dems or Reps aside, do you or any of your buddies think this thing was done right?
Seriously?
(btw- please don't clap for yourself...it's really ghey)
i think its going as well as it can go.
i sure hope everyone here realizes Mission Accomplished applied to the fall of Saddam and not the Final Victory In the Middle East. Yeah, it would have been sweet to have all terrorist/jihadist operations cease at that point, but it is never going to be the case anytime soon. war is ever evolving... but one thing is for damn sure, the US military of today is bad ass... we have the largest fighting force with actual combat experience in the world now. with that force we could totally destroy every country in the middle east with ease, however, we are playing a political game and that gets complicated. the military should only be used to 'break things and kill people' but our leaders in the gov think otherwise.
Are we losing in Iraq? hell NO! do the people in the military who are doing ALL of the fighting and dying think so? hell no. Do the liberal democrats think they can make political gains by forcing our military to surrender and run? yes. and they have even stated such.
btw, our daughter will be in iraq with the Army in Jan. She may well end up in a transportation or MP company. Concerned? you bet. does she have any idea what she's getting into? hell no... no 18 year old does. proud of her? Oh yeah! She wasnt drafted, she doesnt have to be there because she's from a poor inner city minority family... nope... she WANTS to serve there. I work with these kinds of young people everyday. some officers, most enlisted. these are guys and gals that run convoys, build stuff, and work EOD. sure they say they are glad to get back to the US after a deployment, but they are also the fisrt ones to volunteer to go back when asked or when a need arises.
You were in the marines; in general, were you impressed with the capability for critical thinking among your brethren?
Not to knock 'em, because I'm sure most were also great guys (loyal, funny, sincere, etc.), but the Republican Party has made a science of appealing to and associating themselves with (but not actually catering policy to) nationalism and discipline. These are the same values that would lead someone into military service.
I'd like to think that's true, but I highly highly doubt it. Converse to N8, my friends in the military are somewhat liberal and opposed to the war, but that's what makes them my friends, and they readily acknowledge theirs is a minority opinion. The values and ideals that lead someone into the military are aligned with the values Bush espouses, and as long as that's the case most of them will stay aligned and be willing to fight for him. Age and experience, especially something as drastic as a major battle injury, will trigger people to re-examine which is why what you hear at a veteran's hospital is different, but most young folks in the ranks are as blindly uncritical and loyal to their cause as the birk'-wearing Berkeley kids who are similarly lacking in experiences.
if all we had to do was carpet bomb the trouble spots then yes
Falluja for example would only exist in old photos.
note where you live though... San Fran is NOT hardly representive of the rest of the US (aside from maybe Austin and NYC)...
I don't how you can avoid or ignore political consequences with regards to the conduct of the war. It's all part of the game. Sure you can go in and level all of Iraq, the "glass parking lot" idea you frothers blather on with. At this point to suggest anything in Iraq is going well is to be living in a fools paradise. The frothers have completely and utterly f*cked up here and the consequences of the foolishness are going to be felt for the next generation. I've gone beyond being pissed-off about this, now it's just sadness at the delusional pig-headed thinking that makes it all possible. N8, you and your ilk should be ashamed.
For all that I hope Miz N8's daughter comes back safe and sound, indeed I hope all the people there do. Hundreds and thousands of Iraqis, thousands of Americans, hundreds of Brits and a handful (fortunately) of Australians are enough.
For all that I hope Miz N8's daughter comes back safe and sound, indeed I hope all the people there do. Hundreds and thousands of Iraqis, thousands of Americans, hundreds of Brits and a handful (fortunately) of Australians are enough.
perhaps offer to meet them at Starbucks for a chi latte or something?
So if bombing it into oblivion achieves the goal, then who were we saving? Clearly not the Iraqis, of whom there would be none left. At this stage, your only goal is "winning" but winning is only defined as "not losing." It's no longer (if it ever was) about Enduring Freedom or Iraqi democracy... it's about our army still standing when theirs isn't. And if that is now the goal, this was just a big expensive (in dollars and lives) exercise in proving we're stronger than everyone else.
Perhaps we need to define what winning means. Does it mean:
A: Killing all Iraqis
B: Killing all Iraqis that don't like the US
C: Killing all Iraqis that don't like the US and take action against it
D: Killing all Iraqis that don't like democracy
E: Killing all Iraqis that would vote for people we don't trust
Feel free to chip in with any other definition whereby carpet bombing Falluja would be a step in the right direction; so far it only fits with option A and I don't think that was ever the stated aim of this war.