[kickstand]

I have noticed a trend of snapping cables when clutches came out, but lately I have been snapping deraileur cables pretty frequently as has my wife.

2015 V-10's, zee short cage....It hasn't been on one particular derailuer, I usually put a new one on both bikes each season, we have about 5 or 6 spares just in case, etc. It's been a fairly common theme to snap cables on them. This past weekend I broke 3.

1 thing I have noticed is the lower limit screw tends to get mushroomed over time and allows the derailuer to move too far down on the cassette, I also don't run in the lowest gear at all times, so you're obviously relying on the cable to keep the derailuer in place.

Thoughts/questions:
Am I doing something wrong? Seems pretty simple and straightforward, but could I be setting something up wrong?
Are there any other suggestions for a DH derailuer that have a more stout limiting screw, there for relieving tension on the cable when running in the lowest gear?
Any other set ups or designs that are less prone to this? (I've seen it happen with many other derailuers to, so I doubt it's derailuer specific?)
Any super cables out there?

 

[kidwoo]

Shimano: They just do that

 

[jonKranked]

i'd say gearbox, but you'd rant against me for suggesting such a thing, because you've had nothing but good luck with traditional derailers.

 

[jonKranked]

also, do you adjust the b-screw properly?

 

[jonKranked]

also, how do you have the cable routed? are you running full enclosure housing?

 

[jonKranked]

where exactly are the cables snapping? or are they shearing?

 

[kidwoo]

FFS JK, focus man! Focus!


The little tower that the cable mounts to on shimano derailleurs is a crappy design. It bends the cable over a 90 degree edge.

I wasn't kidding, it's just what they do. Routing/housing has nothing to do with it. I buy a stack of cables whenever I go on a road trip with my dh bike, just because it's the only one I have with a shimano derailleur.

 

[jonKranked]

FFS JK, focus man! Focus!


The little tower that the cable mounts to on shimano derailleurs is a crappy design. It bends the cable over a 90 degree edge.

I wasn't kidding, it's just what they do. Routing/housing has nothing to do with it. I buy a stack of cables whenever I go on a road trip with my dh bike, just because it's the only one I have with a shimano derailleur.

thats what i was trying to get to, but yea.

the answer is shims.

 

[troy]

Here is Your solution:

http://www.peterverdone.com/shadow-short-cage-issues/

 

[kidwoo]

Here is Your solution:

http://www.peterverdone.com/shadow-short-cage-issues/

 

[jonKranked]

Here is Your solution:

http://www.peterverdone.com/shadow-short-cage-issues/

i can't believe it. something useful from the guy who deliberately put mineral oil in a brake system designed for DOT because "that's what i'm equipped for".

 

[StiHacka]

I use organic cords woven from unicorn tails as shifting cables and besides the slight rainbow glow after dark, no issues so far.

 

[kickstand]

i'd say gearbox, but you'd rant against me for suggesting such a thing, because you've had nothing but good luck with traditional derailers.

Trail bike, no problems with derailuer.

DH bike, fucking sick of cables.

 

[kickstand]

also, do you adjust the b-screw properly?

I believe so.

also, how do you have the cable routed? are you running full enclosure housing?

Full housing from shifter to derailuer, externally on the frame in the provided cable mounts on the frame.

where exactly are the cables snapping? or are they shearing?

at/near the clamp.

FFS JK, focus man! Focus!


The little tower that the cable mounts to on shimano derailleurs is a crappy design. It bends the cable over a 90 degree edge.

I wasn't kidding, it's just what they do. Routing/housing has nothing to do with it. I buy a stack of cables whenever I go on a road trip with my dh bike, just because it's the only one I have with a shimano derailleur.

This, I don't recall having as many problems with Sram stuff....maybe time to switch back for DH? I think Ic urrently have 25 extra cables in my tool bag LOL

 

[kidwoo]

I only have a saint setup on my bike because it was a build kit and I wanted the brakes. I wouldn't even think twice about running either older or newer sram dh or non dh stuff.

A problem those scram derailleurs have is just backing out of the dropout threads but that's a quick and easy thing to check. Easier than dealing with switching cables all the time.

 

[HAB]

I only have a saint setup on my bike because it was a build kit and I wanted the brakes. I wouldn't even think twice about running either older or newer sram dh or non dh stuff.

A problem those scram derailleurs have is just backing out of the dropout threads but that's a quick and easy thing to check. Easier than dealing with switching cables all the time.

For what it's worth, I've only had the cable snapping issue on Saint derailleurs (and adding a little radius to the cable clamp a-la that PVD link does work). I've got some other 10 speed derailleurs (XT/XTR) that haven't had the same issues, because the way the cable is routed doesn't kink it quite as badly. It's still not great, but better than the DH ones.

Their 11 speed stuff fixed the issue and is all around awesome.

 

[kidwoo]

The last non saint derailleur I had was a 10sp XT and it broke cables too. What did they change on the 11sp stuff?

 

[HAB]

The last non saint derailleur I had was a 10sp XT and it broke cables too. What did they change on the 11sp stuff?

Actually now that I think about it, I had an XT that did too. The XTR on my hardtail has been cool though.

If I remember I'll take a picture tonight, but basically they changed the cable routing so it doesn't get kinked so badly, and added a radius to the edge of the clamp area.

 

[kidwoo]

I know it still happens though because I was riding with a friend of mine this past weekend who broke his on his 11sp xtr derailleur. He's a shimano rep too so I know his stuff is current.

But yeah, grab a pic.

 

[HAB]

I know it still happens though because I was riding with a friend of mine this past weekend who broke his on his 11sp xtr derailleur. He's a shimano rep too so I know his stuff is current.

But yeah, grab a pic.

Huh.

I've had my XTR 11 speed for a while now and it's showing no signs of fraying anything. And like I said, the design is obviously better if you look at it. I guess maybe that isn't enough to work in 100% of cases, but it's served me well.

*knocks on wood*

*derailleur cable explodes on the next ride*

 

[kickstand]

I only have a saint setup on my bike because it was a build kit and I wanted the brakes. I wouldn't even think twice about running either older or newer sram dh or non dh stuff.

A problem those scram derailleurs have is just backing out of the dropout threads but that's a quick and easy thing to check. Easier than dealing with switching cables all the time.

Interesting you bring that up, my buddies sram gx backed out of his hanger this weekend also.

I developed a "clicking/clunking" right near the sag point Sunday after replacing a few cables. Thought it was a pivot bearing or even my rear shock, turns out the clutch feels pretty sticky on the derailleur so I'm pretty sure that contributed to the problem.

Either way I think I'll look into swapping and giving sram a try. Any recommendations out there?

 

[kidwoo]

They make a parallelogram 10sp derailleur that I'd probably get. It's the same pivotless design as the X01 dh stuff, just not 11 speed. Same retention and clutch and all that, just much cheaper since you don't need to buy that expensive cassette.

 

[kickstand]

Yeah I'll be sticking with 10 speed not going to 11. The 7 speed wouldn't be bad either, I wouldn't mind something with a beefier lower limit screw design as well

 

[kidwoo]

A buddy of mine was bitching about the limit screws on those things messing up his hanger. I think he was just letting the derailleur back out and it was chopping off the edge since it wasn't centered. I've ridden a ton of bikes with those things with no problems.


You should try this one: https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/ex1-x-horizon-rear-derailleur

It's a hundred bucks cheaper for just the derailleur. And hey if 7 and 10 speed are cool, I'm sure 8 is fine



I forgot they're actually making a cheaper 7sp one now too: https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/gx-dh-1x-x-horizon-rear-derailleur


edit: dayum that gx full setup is pretty cheap. You suck. Now I'm spending money to fix the same annoyance.

 

[kickstand]

A buddy of mine was bitching about the limit screws on those things messing up his hanger. I think he was just letting the derailleur back out and it was chopping off the edge since it wasn't centered. I've ridden a ton of bikes with those things with no problems.


You should try this one: https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/ex1-x-horizon-rear-derailleur

It's a hundred bucks cheaper for just the derailleur. And hey if 7 and 10 speed are cool, I'm sure 8 is fine



I forgot they're actually making a cheaper 7sp one now too: https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/gx-dh-1x-x-horizon-rear-derailleur


edit: dayum that gx full setup is pretty cheap. You suck. Now I'm spending money to fix the same annoyance.

I don't care how many speeds it is, as long as it's compatible with my piles of 10 speed chains....that 7speed one is built for 10 speed chains right? If so I might go that route, Can either just buy a spacer for my current cassette, or just leave the damn cogs there and not even use em...or I could make one...

My buddies hanger cut the outer half off too since he didn't notice it was backing out right away. I've been poking around and looking at all these things too now, just not sure I want to drop the $$ since I have like 5 more Zee's floating around....but I probably will, thanks a lot.

 

[dexter]

FFS JK, focus man! Focus!


The little tower that the cable mounts to on shimano derailleurs is a crappy design. It bends the cable over a 90 degree edge.

I wasn't kidding, it's just what they do. Routing/housing has nothing to do with it. I buy a stack of cables whenever I go on a road trip with my dh bike, just because it's the only one I have with a shimano derailleur.

My new 11sp xt decided to do this at the top of baldy in sun valley on friday... awesome being stuck in the smallest cog.. trashed my strava time bra

 

[rollertoaster]

The last non saint derailleur I had was a 10sp XT and it broke cables too. What did they change on the 11sp stuff?

11psd still does it, maybe not as frequently though.

 

[Toshi]

Di2? (or Airlines?)

:ducksandcovers:

 

[CheetaMike]

ran ZEE on 2 different bike and never once broke a cable

 

[Jm_]

also, do you adjust the b-screw properly?

Never once, in 20 years, has turning the B-tension screw actually done anything that I can detect.



I have X9s and they are snappy derailleurs. I get about 2 months of hard riding, or 4 months of easier, before the cable snaps, but it always snaps (frays first) in the exact same place.

 

[HAB]

@kidwoo

Basically they opened up the slot for the cable so it doesn't get kinked so much. It's worked for me so far, and I've been on that same cable all season.

 

[StiHacka]

Never once, in 20 years, has turning the B-tension screw actually done anything that I can detect.

B-tension screw has massive impact on Shimano RDs with extended range cassettes, in my personal experience.

 

[Udi]

The cable breakages aren't isolated to Shimano, both brands did the cable breaking thing on different models, you just have to slightly radius any and all sharp edges that the cable touches over it's entire range of movement (like PVD says). Pretty easy DIY fix.

The bolt backing out on the SRAM mechs is due to excess clutch breakaway force on clutched mechs only (it's a very simple moment equation to see how this happens - to explain visually, the chain slap force that would usually exist rotates the entire mech instead of just the cage). They made the situation a bit better on the Type2.1 vs Type2 clutch (don't buy Type2) and I think they may have updated it again since then, the 2.1s still do it to some extent.

I switched to SRAM a few years ago too after an eternity on Shimano, I find the shift action is faster and better defined. Still prefer Shimano cranks/chains/cassettes though, so mix-n-match FTW.

 

[kickstand]

B-tension screw has massive impact on Shimano RDs with extended range cassettes, in my personal experience.

In my case were talking about dh bikes with 11-25 cassettes or 11-26 or whatever, not extended range

 

[TrumbullHucker]

I have BigTeds adapter for my 10 speed zee clutch with my 9 speed cassette... looks like he machined a nice groove where the cable lays in, and then gets sandwiched by the shimano "washer"

i did break 2 cables before realizing that cranking it down super tight is not needed, and avoid all sharp edges.. even file some sharp corners down

 

[StiHacka]

Problem solved:

 

[kickstand]

I have BigTeds adapter for my 10 speed zee clutch with my 9 speed cassette... looks like he machined a nice groove where the cable lays in, and then gets sandwiched by the shimano "washer"

i did break 2 cables before realizing that cranking it down super tight is not needed, and avoid all sharp edges.. even file some sharp corners down

definitely discussed this option like shown in the link posted above. Also think that this particular derailleur is worse than previous. Going to swap to another one I have that the clutch feels smoother on and attempt to "rebuild" the clutch on this one for now. As I was watching it yesterday you could see the derailleur stick during the travel as the chain started to grow just past the sage point, I'm wondering now if the derailleur has been the culprit of all the noise that I've not been able to eliminate on this bike (I hate a loud bike, and this one makes a ton of noise in the "chatter" where I now suspect the derailuer clutch is loudly clicking and slapping into place).

I'm actually kind of happy I have found all this crap going on with the derailleur, it's given me a lot of peice of mind knowing that my shock and my bearings (which I checked yesterday while I looked for the noise) are all holding up exceptionally well after 1.5 seasons of racing.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

silent bike crew checking in

and yes, a shotty deraiuller is much better than blown shock hardware/ frame pivot hardware

 

[kickstand]

silent bike crew checking in

and yes, a shotty deraiuller is much better than blown shock hardware/ frame pivot hardware

Yeah, can't remember if I left the housings in the internal frame routing for your buddies tr500 or not, but if I did and he removed them he would have found them wrapped in pounds and pounds of foam to keep them from rattling in the down tube #loudbikesdontsavelives

 

[TrumbullHucker]

Yeah, can't remember if I left the housings in the internal frame routing for your buddies tr500 or not, but if I did and he removed them he would have found them wrapped in pounds and pounds of foam to keep them from rattling in the down tube #loudbikesdontsavelives

lol i dont think there were housings in there.. i think he just said f*k it and put the normal cable housing through
drunkenly fished it out with long needle nose pliers haha

he doesnt care about noise as much as i do