what are you? Some kind of caveman?I have a solution:
Dessous by Vorsprung Suspension
- Thread starter Mo(n)arch
- Start date
Yep, I just checked the seal. It's got two very small, teeny, tiny notches! Guess I'll order up a seal kit and try it again..
My concern is that the first time I tried releasing air it wouldn't equalize for me. Were the notches already there? Or are the holes in the corset air can making these notches?
My concern is that the first time I tried releasing air it wouldn't equalize for me. Were the notches already there? Or are the holes in the corset air can making these notches?
The quad seal likely got damaged when it blew off after being stuck down.
As far as releasing pressure: hook it up to a shock pump with a bleed button. Release pressure slowly until you hit the negative spring equalization point, and then stop and let it equalize. Do this a few times (stop when you hear hiss of air transfer and let it equalize the chambers) and you should be golden.
If the shaft sucks down too far, just pump it back up and try again.
Due to the large transfer holes in the can, if you pop off a stuck down can it is very easy to kill the quad seal.
got the new quad seal in, very carefully installed the air can. I did take out the xs volume spacer.
Weird thing is, I have it pumped up to 285psi. I am still getting 23mm of sag in descend mode, with about half way into rebound compression. That's well over 35% sag. But at least I can't bottom it out by bunny hopping now. I can get it down to about a 1/4" left.
Why is my pressure so high? And my sag so much? I'm 200lbs loaded up.
Weird thing is, I have it pumped up to 285psi. I am still getting 23mm of sag in descend mode, with about half way into rebound compression. That's well over 35% sag. But at least I can't bottom it out by bunny hopping now. I can get it down to about a 1/4" left.
Why is my pressure so high? And my sag so much? I'm 200lbs loaded up.
I think the fact the two chambers equalize so far into the travel is causing a lot of people to run excessive pressures to try and reduce sag. I could put 300 psi into this thing and still be sitting around 30% sag due to the large negative chamber.
I'm now at 210 psi and completely sold. The shock is way more supple and I've still yet to really bottom it out. It feels a little weird at first as I think everyone expects to bottom out on a trail bike with so much sag, but you don't. If you wanted something super firm and efficient-feeling, look elsewhere, but for something that feels playful, planted and stable, I'm a happy man.
I'm now at 210 psi and completely sold. The shock is way more supple and I've still yet to really bottom it out. It feels a little weird at first as I think everyone expects to bottom out on a trail bike with so much sag, but you don't. If you wanted something super firm and efficient-feeling, look elsewhere, but for something that feels playful, planted and stable, I'm a happy man.
100% ACK
Out of interest, my little brain’s not quite computed the scenario where people order a new higher volume air can, but then proceed to put volume reducers in said can. (Yo Dawg, we heard you like volume in your can...)
Why get the higher vol can in the first place? is it becaues the rings only affect the "positive" air chamber, and you still reap the benefits of a larger negative chamber?
(genuine question)
Why get the higher vol can in the first place? is it becaues the rings only affect the "positive" air chamber, and you still reap the benefits of a larger negative chamber?
(genuine question)
You nailed it. By adding volume to the pos chamber you increase the progression in pressure increase when using travel, higher spring force at same travel, less bottoming. Suppleness at the beginning is not influenced, this comes from the bigger neg chamber that is not suffering from rapid pressure and therefore spring force decrease as a little neg chamber would/is.
The Vorsprung can has a completely different spring curve from the Fox stocker.
Adding volume spacers only really affects the end of the curve. It changes where the ramp starts, and/or makes the ramp steeper. Doesn't have much effect on the majority of the spring curve.
Well hot damn! I just had a frckn great ride with that air can. Super plush! Plenty of pop! Plenty of supportive travel!
I let out a few psi on the pike to match the spring rate of the rear better. Rode it with 230psi and no volume spacer. More sag takes some getting used to.
Call me crazy but I like the ctd on the float X. I use all three modes usually when I ride. Lots of climbing, Lots of casual trails, Lots of gnarly dh sections all at my local spot.
flew off a jump and landed to flat about 6-7' down, kinda felt like it bottomed but still had to look down and check. I used all the travel a few times but it wasnt harsh.
I let out a few psi on the pike to match the spring rate of the rear better. Rode it with 230psi and no volume spacer. More sag takes some getting used to.
Call me crazy but I like the ctd on the float X. I use all three modes usually when I ride. Lots of climbing, Lots of casual trails, Lots of gnarly dh sections all at my local spot.
flew off a jump and landed to flat about 6-7' down, kinda felt like it bottomed but still had to look down and check. I used all the travel a few times but it wasnt harsh.
So are people making any adjustments to the rebound adjuster to compensate for this? Are they going lighter? Going heavier?
I suspect on the basic Float shocks, running a ton of rebound is what causes the shock to heat up fast, which is my #1 complaint with it. If this doesn't top out, can be run with some more sag, a reduced rebound setting may keep the shock cooler. Just a thought..
I suspect on the basic Float shocks, running a ton of rebound is what causes the shock to heat up fast, which is my #1 complaint with it. If this doesn't top out, can be run with some more sag, a reduced rebound setting may keep the shock cooler. Just a thought..
I'm riding an RP2 with PUSH internals coming from a small can and used to rather fast rebound settings. I had to add rebound damping, the plus in mid travel support lead to pogo stick characteristics without.
My basic rebound tune was L and I never noticed any performance flaws from heating and loss of damping on longer descents. But that doesn't mean there weren't any. I have only done ~5 min long downhills with the Corset setup so far, longer stuff yet to come when the snow is gone. Will try to "feel" something.
I also added a couple of clicks of rebound damping. I don't know if it's related to the air can swap or not.
I also tweaked my fork. I went from one to two red tokens in my Pike and dropped the air pressure slightly to make it more supple and progressive to better match the new rear.
I also tweaked my fork. I went from one to two red tokens in my Pike and dropped the air pressure slightly to make it more supple and progressive to better match the new rear.
front page article on pinkbike 
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/ask-pb-rear-shock-upgrades-frame-water-stanchion-scratch-2015.html
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/ask-pb-rear-shock-upgrades-frame-water-stanchion-scratch-2015.html
New underpants for Pikes and Lyriks:
http://vorsprungsuspension.com/products/vorsprung-luftkappe-upgrade-air-piston-kit-for-rockshox-pike-lyrik
http://vorsprungsuspension.com/products/vorsprung-luftkappe-upgrade-air-piston-kit-for-rockshox-pike-lyrik
^^nice!
For the European based crowd, Novyparts has been doing a similar modification for quite a while now, see here http://www.novyparts.com/optimisation-novyparts-suspensions-vtt/rock-shox-fourches/optimisation-specifique-pike-et-boxxer.html for 169€ you even get custom shimz and load of it!
And don't ask for an English version of the site. Novyparts is a one man show and has apparently more than a few customers in France to keep him busy.
For the European based crowd, Novyparts has been doing a similar modification for quite a while now, see here http://www.novyparts.com/optimisation-novyparts-suspensions-vtt/rock-shox-fourches/optimisation-specifique-pike-et-boxxer.html for 169€ you even get custom shimz and load of it!
And don't ask for an English version of the site. Novyparts is a one man show and has apparently more than a few customers in France to keep him busy.
Interesting, do you have any experience with this mod?^^nice!
For the European based crowd, Novyparts has been doing a similar modification for quite a while now, see here http://www.novyparts.com/optimisation-novyparts-suspensions-vtt/rock-shox-fourches/optimisation-specifique-pike-et-boxxer.html for 169€ you even get custom shimz and load of it!
And don't ask for an English version of the site. Novyparts is a one man show and has apparently more than a few customers in France to keep him busy.
Also not available in English, but the AWK dual chamber system has been tempting me for a while now: https://goo.gl/TYvKFk
Looks like that moves the main piston further down the shaft since you can't do anything about the stanchion dimple.
It also effectively acts as a volume reducer for the main chamber....which I guess gets it close to the same feel it had before moving the piston.
It also effectively acts as a volume reducer for the main chamber....which I guess gets it close to the same feel it had before moving the piston.
Not personally, but everything I read about it is positive. Nicolas Vouilloz suspension are prepared by this guy. He is also active on a french forum, his nick is Meca06. Here is the thread about his products http://forum.velovert.com/topic/154680-novyparts/page__pid__6275955__st__10350#entry6275955
In French only, of course!
I can deal with french... but 346 pages?!?!Not personally, but everything I read about it is positive. Nicolas Vouilloz suspension are prepared by this guy. He is also active on a french forum, his nick is Meca06. Here is the thread about his products http://forum.velovert.com/topic/154680-novyparts/page__pid__6275955__st__10350#entry6275955
In French only, of course!
but seriously, one question I have about these aftermarket mods, is are you beholden to have them serviced by them exclusively after this? When I had a shock that had been prepped by Push, I wanted my local shop to do a regular service one time, but all the seals were different. which meant I had to send it to Push for a regular service.
I'm intrigued by this kit, as I find my Pike has a tendency to remain a little deep in its travel, even with three tokens in. But I'm not keen on having to send my fork to Vorsprung every time I want it worked on...
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Inside of the piston is hollow. Adds probably 5cc or so of extra negative volume, at the expense of one tokens worth of positive volume from the looks of it.
Could be fun.
You sure?
I thought it was filled with chocolate.
I can check it out for you.
Not beholden to have it serviced at Vorsprung and can even install it yourself if needs be, there's a kit available on the website that includes a set of shaft clamps for your air shaft if you need them.
In prototype the cap used the quad-ring and dual backup ring arrangement that is found on a Boxxer air piston, rather than the single quad ring used on the standard Pike piston and it appears this has been retained for the production one. I can't imagine Steve would ever have a problem selling you seals to work on the fork yourself, alternately they are also standard industrial parts that can be sourced easily just about anywhere.
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You know what (specifically) he's doing for damper tunes?
Not to the point I'd be willing to comment on what they are definitely. I work in the workshop during the summer but am on the Canadian Government Ski Team for the winter, so haven't been in touch with the final stage of this project. Several metres of fresh powder to deal with and all that
amenNot to the point I'd be willing to comment on what they are definitely. I work in the workshop during the summer but am on the Canadian Government Ski Team for the winter, so haven't been in touch with the final stage of this project. Several metres of fresh powder to deal with and all that
yesterday:
Regarding that offseason activity I quit caring about yesterday: That's always been the biggest problem with the RS forks the last few years, an extremely limited comp circuit. I wonder mostly if he found a way to get that LS comp circuit to have a useable transition. I guess I could like you know, email him.
Wait, is this the same Woo that had Steve fab up a top cap so he could milk a charger cart into a 40? More waffling than Donald Drumpf at a waffle house. I bet you've already developed an orange skier's sun tan.
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I hate you!Several metres of fresh powder to deal with and all that
He uses the same seals and the same oils (or equivalent ) in his kits as used originally.
He hates proprietary "standards" by the way and wants everybody to be able to service and repair their products with easily available stuff. Truly a good guy!
Any updates from anyone running the Luftkappe? I'm going to send them my Monarch for a tractive tune, and figured i'd get them to send me a Luftkappe, if they are worth it...
I'm running one in my 160mm pike (26" though so grain of salt and all). everything claimed about the changes to the air spring characteristics I've found to be true. very supple off the top, no more midstroke weirdness and a nice ramp up. I'm not running any tokens (was running 2) and the end stroke i'd say is slightly more progressive than standard with 2 tokens. it really did bridge the gap between the standard air spring and a coil and I don't feel the need to buy a coil conversion anymore, as I don't think what extra small gains i'd see are worth the costs.
well, I just threw caution to the wind and sent them my Monarch Plus for a Tractive tune and ordered a Luftkappe kit. So I will be able to answer my own questions once the snow melts. Which shouldn't be in too much time given this warm weather and all this rain.
Time to revive this thread. How do you like the LK, @slyfink? I have one incoming now, too.
If I'm honest, I didn't notice as big a difference as I did from the tractive tune on the shock. I could run a bit more sag, and it would ramp earlier, so it would be more plush early in the stroke but still offer good support, but I don't find it made a huge difference in how the bike felt overall.
Still, it did what it said it would, so no complaints, and no regrets.
Still, it did what it said it would, so no complaints, and no regrets.
Did you do both at the same time? After a significant upgrade of a shock, the shortcomings of the fork were always felt more in my past experiences.
I ordered a LK whilst struggling with my dork setup. Got it dialed before it arrived but installed it anyway along with a 10mm longer shaft.
At the end of the day the difference was small, but plush enough for my gimpy hands but still plenty supportive. The longer shaft should keep sag closer to normal if not a little taller.