[DIRTWRKS]

Hi,

Thought I would share some information from the latest french mountain biking mag " Velo Vert "

They ran a comparative test of nine different DH bikes. Eight different Pro to semi pro riders took part in the evaluation of each bike, Fabien Baril was one of them.

The bikes were tested over the course of several days with each rider given time to adjust and tweak the suspensions and set up to his liking.

All but two of the bikes were outfitted with 888 forks up front to try and even out the comparisions.


Here is a list of the 9 bikes.

Balfa BB7 , Commencal Supreme Dh, Cannondale Gemini DH, Kona Stab Primo
Lapierre Black DH, Nicolai M-Pire , Rocky Mountain RMX, Specialized Demo 9, & the Yeti DH9


The Final standings were as follows.


1. Yeti DH9, despite being the heaviest and longest bike it was the unanimous faovrite of the bunch, it was praised for it's stabilty at speed , riding position and feel and was easy to ride in all types of terrain.

2.Nicolai M-Pire, Stabilty and a responsive well controlled rear suspension were traits most liked

3. Commencal, well balanced and not far behind the top two, a little difficult to set and needed to be tweaked a lot to get it just right for most.

4.Balfa BB7, good performer praised by most but many felt it was a little front heavy and that affected it's balance.

5.Specialized Demo 9, Was praised for it's ability to plow through most obstacles but was let down by it's heavy weight and sluggish feel in tighter technical sections.

6.Kona Stab Primo , Big and heavy feeling bike with a high riding position was not favoured by everyone but like the Demo 9 it likes going over obstacles more than around them.

7.Rocky Mountain RMX. Loose feeling rear end, lack of stabilty at speed were the traits that left the RMX at this spot.

8. Lapierre Black DH, Flex in the frame and uneven feeling between front and rear suspensions let this bike down in the test.

9. Cannondale, light weight but unstable at speed , difficult to get into a comfortable riding position for most and the fact that thefront fork on this bike was acting up a bit left this bike in last place. Most of the testers were amazed that Cedric Gracia could be so good on this rig!

There you have it, remember the comments are those of the testers not mine so no nasty responses.

If anyone is initerested on getting more details about the rest of the set up of any of these bikes such as rear shock, wheels and tires just ask me.


Regards,

 

[Tully]

Thanks for posting that. Could you possibly post some of the specs for each bike, i.e. fork, shock, wheels and tires, as well as the frame weights, if you have them at hand? Thanks again.

 

[DIRTWRKS]

Thanks for posting that. Could you possibly post some of the specs for each bike, i.e. fork, shock, wheels and tires, as well as the frame weights, if you have them at hand? Thanks again.

Here we go.........


Yeti DH9- Boxxer, Vanilla RC, Mavic D521, Maxixs Minion. The only negative comments about this bike were on the Boxxer, all riders wished it would have had the 888 on it , nonetheless still finished in first overall. Weight 20.2 Kg


Nicolai M-Pire- 888, Vanilla RC, Mavic Deemax, Hutcinson Octopus 2.8, weight 19.9 Kg

Commencal - 888, Swinger 6way, Mavic EX 729, Hutchinson Octopus 2.8, weight 19.7 Kg.

Balfa BB7- 888, Vanilla RC, Mavic Deemax, Mich Comp 16 front ,Maxxis High roller rear. Weight 19,1 Kg

Specialuzed Demo 9- 888, Swinger 6way, Mavix EX 729, Specilaized Roller 2.6
weight 19.9Kg

Kona Stab Primo- 888, Fox Vanilla DH, Mavic EX 729, Nokian Gazzi DH 2.6
weight 20.15 Kg

Rock Mountain RMX- Super-T, Fox Vanilla RC, Alex DX32, Maxis Mobster. weight 19.8 Kg

Lapierre- 888, Marz Boss VR66 Rear, Mavic EX 823, Mich DH comp 2.5 weight 18.7 Kg

Cannondale Gemini- Dorado DH, Swinger 6Way, Mavic D3.1, Hutchinson
Octopus, weight 18.5 Kg
*Note the Dorado fork was acting up and it was suspected to be in need of a good tuneup which may have hurt the Gemini overall, however the rest of the bike did not impress most riders either, they felt it was more suited to freeride rather than Downhill.

 

[BMXman]

wow I'm suprised the M-pire did so well...it usually gets black balled just on looks alone....D

 

[me89]

man i am surprised that the rmx got that. i mean i guess its a dh bike but it really looks like a freeride bike just cause of the higher standover hight of the bike. it just doesnt look that stable flyin down the trail at 30mph. but just one mans opinion.

 

[Tully]

I'm still surprised that the yeti won, because it is a great bike, but it's really long, and, surprisingly (to me, anyway) heavier than a Demo 9). I suppose you could just buy a size smaller, though. Are Lapierre and Commencal available in America?

 

[profro]

I'm still surprised that the yeti won, because it is a great bike, but it's really long, and, surprisingly (to me, anyway) heavier than a Demo 9). I suppose you could just buy a size smaller, though. Are Lapierre and Commencal available in America?

Have you ever ridden a Yeti? and I don't mean around the parking lot. I mean on good trails and at speed? If you have , then you understand.

 

[dw]

I find it incredibly hard to take much stock in a test like that.

All of the bikes had different tire combinations, and most likely if a detail that huge and simple was left aside, then they probebly didnt take the time to set up the suspension correctly for each rider. Also, I would doubt that the bar/ stem combos were tuned correctly for everyone.

All in all, a test like that (done properly) would take a lot of time and resources. Probably more of both than a magazine could afford.

I dont buy into it at all.

Dave

 

[profro]

I think you're over analyzing it a bit. Like any good engineer would, but this was done by a magazine. What do they know about setting up test procedures and identifying dependent and independent variables?

Oh BTW, the Yeti is still the best. :devil:

 

[Jeremy R]

Well, Let's see.
I am not surprised the Yeti won.
Not surprised the C-dale got DFL.
Definitely not surprised every rider wished they had a 888 on the front.
But that is a given.
I am surprised the Demo-9 was not up there.
They said it did not handle tighter techy trails well.
I wish somebody would have told that Chris and Ryan T. before they hand me my azz at every tight technical race course out there.
The different tire combos is silly for sure.

Well, at least this magazine picked a winner. The US magazines would not dare put a list of bikes in a "finishing" order. Somebody's happy place would get a scoop full of sand.

 

[dante]

hmmmm, no SGS, no V10, no DHR, no 223, no Foes...

 

[dw]

I think you're over analyzing it a bit. Like any good engineer would, but this was done by a magazine. What do they know about setting up test procedures and identifying dependent and independent variables?

Oh BTW, the Yeti is still the best. :devil:

I dont know, I dont think I'm overananlyzing really. I mean, if they are going to claim that one customized (not a stock complete bike) full suspension mountain bike is better than another, then I think there has to be a little more parity as far as parts selection and tuning.

It would be one thing if it was a complete bike shootout like some magazines do. Then it is an "as supplied" battle. If some company specs a road tire on their DH bike, and it sucks, too bad for them.

At the very least, they could have put the same tires on all of the bikes and run them with the same pressures. Then you could have somewhat of a level playing field.

Just my opinion anyways, Im just saying that I personally dont take much stock in tests like that

Dave

 

[ssaddict]

The fact that they didn't like the Cannondale just because of the fork show's how much effort they put into it. Its pretty much worthless, kinda like a french version of MBA.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Well, at least this magazine picked a winner. The US magazines would not dare put a list of bikes in a "finishing" order. Somebody's happy place would get a scoop full of sand.

very well put, thankyou for finally saying this like it needs to be said

 

[dante]

Well, at least this magazine picked a winner. The US magazines would not dare put a list of bikes in a "finishing" order. Somebody's happy place would get a scoop full of sand.

Hmmm, guess I'm too american, I would've preferred plus/minus breakdown on each of the frames, including where each one excelled or which would be better for which kind of rider/course/etc. The frame that's best at Mt Snow isn't the frame that would be best at Sea Otter. Or the frame/fork that's best for someone who's 240 with no skills probably isn't going to be the best for a highly-skilled 125lb female. Putting together a bunch of different bikes with different parts specs, riding them for a weekend at one particular place and saying "this one is the best" really doesn't do it for me.

(I have no idea of the test or the article, I'm just assuming)

 

[profro]

I dont know, I dont think I'm overananlyzing really. I mean, if they are going to claim that one customized (not a stock complete bike) full suspension mountain bike is better than another, then I think there has to be a little more parity as far as parts selection and tuning.

It would be one thing if it was a complete bike shootout like some magazines do. Then it is an "as supplied" battle. If some company specs a road tire on their DH bike, and it sucks, too bad for them.

At the very least, they could have put the same tires on all of the bikes and run them with the same pressures. Then you could have somewhat of a level playing field.

Just my opinion anyways, Im just saying that I personally dont take much stock in tests like that

Dave

Like it or not but most people don't understand things like that. They want a simple answer. This bike is the best or Cedric rides it, so it must be the best. So it will make me faster. I would be willing to say that Nathan Rennie and Sam Hill riding Iron Horse bikes did more for sales than all the improvements that Evil did or even the killer specs for the price. Most people want an image, not the details.

I agree in what you say however. I too don't take much stock in tests like these and as such I don't even open MBA anymore. But this supports my Yeti claim. Magazines and people on RM say that its heavy and too long. But when you actually ride one, you'll understand that those things don't mean much. But I keep in mind that not all bikes are for everyone.

 

[mike425]

Tbh, all this stuff about the bikes not been setup correct for each riders, doesnt bother me too much. If the test riders were of the likes of fabien barel etc, im more than happy to take there word as the truth, theyre gonna no what they are talking about.

mike

 

[ssaddict]

too bad the "riders" are editors/writers who get schwag from the companies and other benifits, then just happen to write glowing reviews.

 

[mike425]

But if you read the first post youll see that he says that fabien barel and some semi-pro riders were in on the test

mike

 

[ssaddict]

same deal, ask the guys who ride for MBA

I would just rather find out info off of a website such as this, than people paid or compensated to do a test.

 

[jmvar]

probably interesting reading while you are sitting in a tiny french bathroom performing your business on the can. I doubt that a lot of people take the ratings to seriously, I think there are too many attributes to a custom DH bike that are personal taste to really crown one the winner.

Fun to read how they did the test, taken with a grain of salt.

Now they should do which bike is best hucked over a tour de france peleton off of a 25 ft. drop to flat with DH spinner wheels and various APC products on the bike purchased at Pep Boys...can you rice out a DH bike?

 

[dw]

I would be willing to say that Nathan Rennie and Sam Hill riding Iron Horse bikes did more for sales than all the improvements that Evil did or even the killer specs for the price. Most people want an image, not the details.

Persoanlly I have to strongly disagree with that statement, but hear me out, I have access to inside information that most don't.

Actually to be honest, Evil had nothing to do with the Iron Horse improvement, that was all me personally. I was hired on as an independent consultant. I think that the involvement of a real deal pro team helped sales, but these guys went out and won on STOCK bikes. Its the fact that the team has been winning on production or coming production models that I think has been so impressive. The consumer reviews and the fact that every day riders like us get on the bikes and love them has been what has really sold them. At least thats what the consumer surveys say...

I think a lot of people want the image, but in 2004, when most people get ready to throw down $4500 for a bike, market research shows that usually they research their purchase before going to a shop or ordering online. You talk to your friends and people that you trust etc...

dw

edit: my terrible, terrible, fast typing grammar

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Personally i find it insane that they placed the gemini last place, that bike rocks, its light simple and nimble, esp if this was a "race bike" test, it was the lightest bike in the test, i have ridden a few of the bikes mentioned and felt that the gemini was a way more neutral bike compared to the stab especially, that thing is a tank, it will plow through anything but i has no flickability...argh i hate mags you just gotta go out and ride it all yourself :mumble:

 

[Orvan]

I'm tellin ya, the Hutchinson DH Tires are one of the kickass sleepers!! Get the 2.5s now before they're hard to get (2.5s, due to their air volume looks like 2.7 tires)..

and thank god there was no typical ass kissing on em DHRs again...

 

[El Jefe]

hmmmm, no SGS, no V10, no DHR, no 223, no Foes...

Just what I was thinking. I guess they choose not to rate the bikes that everyone already knows perform well.

BTW-1st ride on my long awaited now white monocoque V10 shall occur today. It's so beautiful.

 

[Orvan]

too bad the "riders" are editors/writers who get schwag from the companies and other benifits, then just happen to write glowing reviews.

Typically, some of these test riders are actually real life racers/riders who do testing/feedback for ____ publication on certain products. The thought and knowledge just gets tainted once it reach the pages of the mag. I mean, I rode with some of the test riders at/for MBA and I truly respect what they have to say about bikes and riding in general more than Jm_, Acadian and other online forum test riders in a whim.

You are correct about the schwags though... I hate them for that...

 

[Jeremy R]

and thank god there was no typical ass kissing on em DHRs again...

Yeah, there is no need to include the DHR in a shootout.
All you have to do is go to a race and look around.

 

[cali4niabiker]

The test shootouts between bikes don't seem to tell you anything since people tend to be so biased when it comes to testing different brands. I personally think these shootouts don't tell you much about the bike itself. It is a waste of time to listen to those riders rant about the bikes... so what! Really, it boils down to the rider and how (s)he rides and handles it.

What they should do in the future is cover up the bike completely and spec it with the exact same parts (i.e., bike 1 has same wheels, tires, and drivetrain to bike 2) with the exception of the fork to match the rear travel of the frame. On the cover, put on bike 1, bike 2, etc, so that whoever rides it will have no idea what the brand/manufacturer is. I'll guarantee you that you will get more honest and straight up answers if some mag can figure out how to do that.

If they do something like that, then I'll listen what these riders have to say. Just MHO.

-CAbiker

 

[frorider]

Well, at least this magazine picked a winner. The US magazines would not dare put a list of bikes in a "finishing" order. Somebody's happy place would get a scoop full of sand.

i assume you're being sarcastic. MBA, the mag we all love to hate, routinely puts a list of bikes in rank order. that's why in this forum you always see jokes about shootout reviews like "we test all tires and rank them for you!!!" in MBA.

which is, in fact, in the latest issue.

 

[MikeD]

Testriders should all be blindfolded.

 

[cali4niabiker]

Testriders should all be blindfolded.

Oh... how much fun it would be to watch them smack into trees...

They could rate the best tree to run into instead! Or perhaps if they are out here in CA, rate the best shrub to run into. The choices are a dried shrub, spikey plants (I'm not a biologist, so don't make fun of me neaky: ), dried thorn bushes, cactus, or..... hmmm. that is it. :evil:

 

[Orvan]

BTW-1st ride on my long awaited now white monocoque V10 shall occur today. It's so beautiful.

aren't you scorned for not riding a Turner considering where you live?

You definitely are a good helmet crash tester

 

[Dogboy]

Testriders should all be blindfolded.

And they should put trash bags over the bikes so they can't see what they're riding.

 

[Jeremy R]

i assume you're being sarcastic. MBA, the mag we all love to hate, routinely puts a list of bikes in rank order. that's why in this forum you always see jokes about shootout reviews like "we test all tires and rank them for you!!!" in MBA.

which is, in fact, in the latest issue.

Oh, I am sorry, maybe I should have said, "US magazines that human beings actually read."

 

[profro]

Actually to be honest, Evil had nothing to do with the Iron Horse improvement, that was all me personally. I was hired on as an independent consultant.

Sorry, didn't mean to take away credit, where credit is due. I assume Evil/DW are interchangable.

I lived in San Antonio for awhile and what I noticed was a huge boom in the freeride market. Me and few friends were pushing the envelope around there and there wasn't anything that some boob on a 6" "freeride" bike could do that we couldn't do faster on a dirtjumping hardtail. In fact a lot of wanna bes had love affairs with Imperials cuz they were the latest core thing out there. Even though they had never seen one or ridden one. But the image of being fast or core is so much more important. I finally busted through all that crap awhile back and I'm happier for it. I am still rocking my 3 year old Hayes and my 2001 Shiver, not because I can't afford anything new, but because they just plain work for me.

I still think for the most part people buy on image, not the facts. Go to any race and witness the amount of posers that can't ride fast enough to warrant 9" travel bikes, but they still have them. But the best part is.... it doesn't matter. I think its great that you can buy what you want and that you have so many options.

 

[El Jefe]

aren't you scorned for not riding a Turner considering where you live?

You definitely are a good helmet crash tester

Gee, thanks? I do tend to find the limits of the helmets a bit faster than other riders.

I've received nothing but positive comments on the new V10, even from certain die-hard Turner owners whom I will not mention in this post.

 

[DIRTWRKS]

Hi,


Just got a chance to read a lot of the feedback on my initial post, and I must say some people just can't be pleased , if it's not being sceptical because it was a bike magazine that did the test and they must be "biased " or " what do the French no anyways" attitudes, please leave the politics at home and just accept the findings.

Just cause your favourite ride did not place first does not mean that it sucks, these riders simply rated the bikes in order of preference for their style of riding and for the attributes they found best suited for DH racing.


First of all some clarifications are in order, all of the riders and there were 8 of them "actually they started with 9 and one of them ended up breaking his wrist in a crash early on during the test" all are actual DH riders not bike magazine editors.

Also to keep the test unbiased none of the sponsored riders were allowed to ride or rate their own brand of bike. Among the 8 riders were team riders sponsored by Kona, Nicolai, Giant, 2 from Balfa, Specialized , Commencal and Lapierre.

Each rider was given time to fine tune and make adjustments to suspensions and cockpit etc. so he would be as comfortable as could be on that rig.

Each rider spent about 16 hours riding and evaluating the bikes.

I find the French and British Mags much less biased in their tests overall and they also do a lot more testing especially on components etc, MBA pales in comparision in this regard.


Too bad they were not able to test other bikes such as the Turner, SC V10,
Iron Horse, and Intense etc. Well maybe next time.

 

[BMXman]

hmmmm, no SGS, no V10, no DHR, no 223, no Foes...

most of the frames you have listed have been tested to death both by the US mags and overseas...I for one was glad they were testing the "not so popular" frames....D

 

[Ciaran]

Have you ever ridden a Yeti? and I don't mean around the parking lot. I mean on good trails and at speed? If you have , then you understand.

As one who owns a DH9 I can say that this is correct. This thing was designed to go fast and she handles better at speed. Seriously, the faster you go the better she is. The Yeti DH9 seems to have an aversion to brakes.

 

[PAMS 25]

hmmmm, no SGS, no V10, no DHR, no 223, no Foes...

For a little (compare to Mtbaction or other US mag) french mountain bike mag, it's not easy to join together as much dh rig which are expensive and rare. For exemple, nobody know the SGS in France it's not imported here, I seen it only one time in Switzerland.
It's a good comparative but not a reference.
Big Bike, an other frenche mtb mag, make every year a comparative of dh bikes. This year: giant dh team, cannondale gemini dh, kona stab primo, lapierre black dh, MSC (the same like of the team Maxxis) F-1.0 wcr, santa cruz v10, scott high octane and specialized big hit expert. This comparative is great because all the bike are tested and weigthed whith the same tires and pressure. All the test would must be like that neaky: .