[Kanye West]

Counterpoint: you should have been faster to get into the prize money. See how this line of argument works?

Support women's racing. It's the right thing to do. The problem you outline doesn't have anything to do with equal prize/contract money for women. Though we seem to be moving beyond this, there was a period where elite female racers were encouraged to make revealing social media posts and keep their relationship status private, and so on. As a former pro, I'm sure you experienced that pressure as well, right?

What's a pro doing worried about field sizes and entry fees, anyway?

Another counterpoint: Can women's racing support itself in the absence of men's racing? Can men's racing support itself in the absence of women's racing?


If the point of a riders union is to advocate for/ensure safe and reasonable courses for riders, this has been done in other sports without a riders union. I could see a lot of layout features that could go (and SHOULD go) in observation of that.

Think their list of grievances are best dealt with one at a time. A mob is almost never effective at multi-tasking.

 

[Gary]

pretty much every kid that doesn't have stingy grumpy Scottish parents

... But I was asking what kids you know personally that spend "bulk money" on game skins?
Because pretty much every adult who supplies that money knows fine well its a massive waste of money so have to either be dumb AF, weak AF or just give no fucks to be continually supplying it. Especially to "bulk" levels.
I do give a fuck so have probably supplied a total of less than £40 to purchase in game content over the entire childhood of my two youngest (so fairly inconsequential). eldest is 32 so it wasn't really a thing. Mine have never really been particularly "wanty" "nippy" kids though and grew out of the desire for skins years back. Some of their nippier/wantier friends definitely did regularly spend their (weak/dumb/no fucks given) parents money on that shit for a while and at a certain age and its not uncommon to get gaming gift cards for birthday presents or have (weak/dumb) grandparents/relatives in the mix. But even so it's really not difficult to keep track of what/where your younger kids are spending their pocket money
Reason I asked is because I'd be genuinely interested to hear of other's experience of the type of kids and parents who spend a consequential amount on in game credit Eg. for skins align with mine.

 

[StiHacka]

Kids have it easy these days. Back in the 80s, I had to hack strip poker games myself to get to the goodies without wasting time ”playing”.

 

[Gary]

Not well behaved enough to be gifted by the hedge porn fairy?

 

[StiHacka]

Not well behaved enough to be gifted by the hedge porn fairy?

Those didn’t exist behind the iron curtain - unless you were a prominent party apparatchik.

 

[norbar]

Those didn’t exist behind the iron curtain - unless you were a prominent party apparatchik.

I am still surprised I didn't learn earlier you were raised in the crimson part of yurp

 

[StiHacka]

I am still surprised I didn't learn earlier you were raised in the crimson part of yurp

I thought my passionate hatred for anything russian was a dead giveaway?

 

[Westy]

Jesus, DH forum has gone all golf and video games instead of trail bike discussions like God intended.

 

[Fool]

Jesus, DH forum has gone all golf and video games instead of trail bike discussions like God intended.

Not gonna lie, I was pretty stoked when the lil' porn-mustachiod Aussie won the British Open in the final round

 

[Gary]

Jesus, DH forum has gone all golf and video games instead of trail bike discussions like God intended.

RM has simply run out of anything vaguely on topic to make up and lose your shit over. Hardly surprising seeing as the original subject of the thread is about something which doesn't even exist yet.

Watch this...

And tell us if there's anything new and actually worthy of talking about in there.

 

[StiHacka]

In soviet russia, union rides you.

 

[Gary]

These two guys look pretty unified

 

[norbar]

I thought my passionate hatred for anything russian was a dead giveaway?

That would also make you American, Finnish, Afghan, Turkish... The list is probably waaaay longer.

 

[toodles]

Reason I asked is because I'd be genuinely interested to hear of other's experience of the type of kids and parents who spend a consequential amount on in game credit Eg. for skins align with mine.

I got my kid a one-off pass thingy that lets him earn credits to buy skins. That'll do.. If he wastes it then oh well. I'm not paying for that junk. Some of his school buddies rave about how much crap they've wasted money on.

Talk about failing as a parent though - the other day he wanted to take his bloody scooter to the skate park with me instead of his bike. I was gonna start a poll on RM about whether grounding is severe enough punishment, or if military school was the best option.

 

[DaveW]

Military school clearly!
Drone fodder is about the best you can expect from the lil bastard.

 

[norbar]

I got my kid a one-off pass thingy that lets him earn credits to buy skins. That'll do.. If he wastes it then oh well. I'm not paying for that junk. Some of his school buddies rave about how much crap they've wasted money on.

Talk about failing as a parent though - the other day he wanted to take his bloody scooter to the skate park with me instead of his bike. I was gonna start a poll on RM about whether grounding is severe enough punishment, or if military school was the best option.

Just tell him as long as he rides his scooter the only pizza available to him includes pineapples. The only soda will be diet doctor pepper.

 

[buckoW]

Where did he get a scooter?

 

[toodles]

Where did he get a scooter?

Mum's fault. I have no say in the matter. I'll show her though... looking at mini motos.

 

[Gary]

I like Dr Pepper Zero and have no issue with pineapple on a ham pizza. Hawaian init?
I would tho, eh?

 

[Gary]

Scooters were a gateway to bikes for mine when they were little. My youngest started walking at 10mths. Rode a micro scooter at 12mths. Moved onto a balance bike at 15mths and was confidently riding a pedal bike without stabilisers by 22mths... Basically loved anything with wheels from day 1. Her passion is now football.

 

[Gary]

I eventually got through that podcast BTW. Much of it was cringe. But to paraphrase its just an hour of the thoughts of 3 privileged (spoiled) kids with some good ideas, some not so much. But Loic and Finn seem to have about as much clue about what's going to happen as @norbar does.
Finn actually sees only 30 elites qualifying for finals as a good thing for the sport so long as he gets his own moto style introduction card and accompanying introduction reel played at the start of every race


They also seem to think Warner won't be on the mic #Sadtimes

 

[toodles]

They also seem to think Warner won't be on the mic #Sadtimes

Warner's contract is with RedBull. Unless they break it to allow him to commentate for Discovery (unlikely given the abrupt nature of the changeover) Discovery will need to find a new commentator. I'm not sure RedBull is amicable enough about the whole thing to let Warner change over, so I reckon Discovery would be looking around for an ex-racer with some good background in the sport and some mic skills to grab.

 

[slyfink]

I eventually got through that podcast BTW. Much of it was cringe. But to paraphrase its just an hour of the thoughts of 3 privileged (spoiled) kids with some good ideas, some not so much. But Loic and Finn seem to have about as much clue about what's going to happen as @norbar does.
Finn actually sees only 30 elites qualifying for finals as a good thing for the sport so long as he gets his own moto style introduction card and accompanying introduction reel played at the start of every race


They also seem to think Warner won't be on the mic #Sadtimes

I agree. (though I have to admit I didn't make it through the entire "podcast" as it was a little painful to listen to). I think the biggest benefits of the union would be:
1. present a unified voice to the promoters
2. provide an opportunity for early engagement
3. provide a forum for the riders to discuss their concerns internally, in an organized voice.

on point 1, one needs to be clear eyed that Discovery are getting involved in the sport because they see a business opportunity. The riders need to understand their worth in this business cycle and it's legitimate for them to want to maximise their value in the chain.

on point 2, rather than focus on feedback like Loic and Finn keep talking about, I think they should focus their efforts on early engagement with the promoters and offer their thoughts on what would maximise the value proposition for both parties. be proactive and share ideas early. I'm not in business, my background in environmental studies and municipal government, but one of the key principles that we've learned is crucial in our field is that early engagement is crucial. it allows you to identify potential points of conflict early on. then you can address them early on and try to come up with win-win solutions before its too late.

on point 3, it'll be tough to get all riders to agree on all things all the time. but having a structured forum to debate these ideas and worth through them will be important.

I guess the idea of a union implies fees to hire someone to do this sort of organizing. I hope it works out for them... that could be a tough sell for athletes who are already tapped out just trying to participate in this sport, and not making a living from it (which is what, 70% of the field? more maybe?)

 

[norbar]

I like Dr Pepper Zero and have no issue with pineapple on a ham pizza. Hawaian init?
I would tho, eh?

See @toodles ? Now you have to ask yourself. Do I want my son to turn into a Gary.

 

[norbar]

I eventually got through that podcast BTW. Much of it was cringe. But to paraphrase its just an hour of the thoughts of 3 privileged (spoiled) kids with some good ideas, some not so much. But Loic and Finn seem to have about as much clue about what's going to happen as @norbar does.
Finn actually sees only 30 elites qualifying for finals as a good thing for the sport so long as he gets his own moto style introduction card and accompanying introduction reel played at the start of every race


They also seem to think Warner won't be on the mic #Sadtimes

The idea of a union is even if Finn has a stupid idea you get a voting body and his stupid ideas may be blocked by the majority of riders. Never said "this is going to be the bestest union since unions were invented". Just that a union here is a good idea. I think even the top30 riders (not named Finn) realize top30 qualifying to the final is bad because early in the season you can simply crash and not qualify. Finn is pretty good at crashing so I'm sure someone will explain to him he'd be screwed by that more than consistent racers.


Also to play the Gary here: How dare you be sad about Warner not being on the mic. You need to accept what the corporate overlords want. Be happy you will get a worse experience because life sucks

 

[norbar]

Warner's contract is with RedBull. Unless they break it to allow him to commentate for Discovery (unlikely given the abrupt nature of the changeover) Discovery will need to find a new commentator. I'm not sure RedBull is amicable enough about the whole thing to let Warner change over, so I reckon Discovery would be looking around for an ex-racer with some good background in the sport and some mic skills to grab.

Who is available from people who have some social media presence so they know they are tested? Cathro is with PB not Redbull and I'd be surprised if he's on a long term contract. I doubt they'd pick any of the ex racers who are still somewhat associated with any of the teams. They will probably chose a Brit given it's probably led by Warner Europe (they have a weird corporate structure) so who else can be chosen? Someone from GMBN or whatever it's called?

 

[norbar]

I guess the idea of a union implies fees to hire someone to do this sort of organizing. I hope it works out for them... that could be a tough sell for athletes who are already tapped out just trying to participate in this sport, and not making a living from it (which is what, 70% of the field? more maybe?)

This is a good point. Unless it's a self organized union which becoming more common in 2022. Will be more of a mess but it seems like the only option

 

[slimshady]

Someone from GMBN or whatever it's called?

 

[norbar]

Knowing Eurosport I don't expect a great commentator. I know Disco US started making some better choices but their Euro subsidiary is a bit of a mess from what my industry friends tell me so we are at risk of getting someone really weird.

 

[slyfink]

The idea of a union is even if Finn has a stupid idea you get a voting body and his stupid ideas may be blocked by the majority of riders. Never said "this is going to be the bestest union since unions were invented". Just that a union here is a good idea. I think even the top30 riders (not named Finn) realize top30 qualifying to the final is bad because early in the season you can simply crash and not qualify. Finn is pretty good at crashing so I'm sure someone will explain to him he'd be screwed by that more than consistent racers.

on the topic of Finn, the one question that kept popping up in my mind while he was comparing it to other sports is skiing (I know, I keep coming back to this...). But as I recall (from some Redbull bio on him I think), he was on the national development team but reached a point where he had to choose between biking and skiing. and he chose biking, and I wonder why? was it comparatively easier to make a living from the biking? are there any lessons from that experience that he could bring to mtb-ing? The kid probably has more knowledge and experience than he knows, it'd be nice to channel it a bit...

also, I liked how Bruni dropped "worst-case, Ontario"... Finn's been grooming him!

 

[Gary]

Never said "this is going to be the bestest union since unions were invented".

and no one here has accused you of saying anything of the sort

Just that a union here is a good idea.

And that's exactly what I stated when you first brought this up.

Do you have a learning difficulty?
I'm being serious. (for a minute) here as you seem to struggle with retaining and sharing information but the constant making shit up is more worrying.


.

 

[norbar]

and no one here has accused you of saying anything of the sort

And that's exactly what I stated when you first brought this up.

Do you have a learning difficulty?
I'm being serious. (for a minute) here as you seem to struggle with retaining and sharing information but the constant making shit up is more worrying.


.

For someone who repeatedly assured me he isn't angry at me you sure do want to insult me Gary. Can you send your insults in a private message as to not derail this topic?

PS. Don't blame your poor grasp of english on me. This topic started with you being unable to precisely express yourself and then being angry we don't read minds.

 

[Gary]

It's not an insult.
Full disclosure : I do.

[EDIT] in reply to your (now) edited second paragraph my grasp of English is just fine. Thanks.
There was no anger. No "we" and mindreading really wasn't necessary in order to comprehend the meaning of "X is an entertainment industry" you simply went off on a blinkered rampaging tangent in your belief Hollywood and mainstream TV are the only entertainment industries.

 

[canadmos]

on the topic of Finn, the one question that kept popping up in my mind while he was comparing it to other sports is skiing (I know, I keep coming back to this...). But as I recall (from some Redbull bio on him I think), he was on the national development team but reached a point where he had to choose between biking and skiing. and he chose biking, and I wonder why? was it comparatively easier to make a living from the biking? are there any lessons from that experience that he could bring to mtb-ing? The kid probably has more knowledge and experience than he knows, it'd be nice to channel it a bit...

also, I liked how Bruni dropped "worst-case, Ontario"... Finn's been grooming him!

It was in one of the videos with Warner. I believe he was basically the top ranked in Canada, in his age class. His mom makes it sound like he just liked biking more.

5:12

 

[norbar]

It's not an insult.
Full disclosure : I do.

[EDIT] in reply to your (now) edited second paragraph my grasp of English is just fine. Thanks.
There was no anger. No "we" and mindreading really wasn't necessary in order to comprehend the meaning of "X is an entertainment industry" you simply went off on a blinkered rampaging tangent in your belief Hollywood and mainstream TV are the only entertainment industries.

Nope Gary. I just used them as examples. Example doesn't mean they are the only parts of the ent. industry. It's you who got angry about me using it as an example. For someone with a decent grasp of english you sure do not understand what an example means.

PS. I think you're the last person on RM who can accuse others of derailing topics

 

[norbar]

It was in one of the videos with Warner. I believe he was basically the top ranked in Canada, in his age class. His mom makes it sound like he just liked biking more.

5:12

No idea about current downhil skiiing but how good are Canadian Skiiers in terms of international results? Did he have any chance to compete with the top Euro pros? Since I doubt slower racers in downhill skiing get great pay.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. Angry AF

Absolutely pointless completely irrelevant examples are the one thing sure to absolutely enrage me.

 

[canadmos]

No idea about current downhil skiiing but how good are Canadian Skiiers in terms of international results? Did he have any chance to compete with the top Euro pros? Since I doubt slower racers in downhill skiing get great pay.

No idea, but he grew up in Whistler so I'm sure he was well on track to having the opportunity to go pro.

 

[slyfink]

No idea, but he grew up in Whistler so I'm sure he was well on track to having the opportunity to go pro.

ironically enough, it seems the majority of Canada's most successful skiers are from the east (ON and (mostly) QC).

 

[Avy]

I think this is where we need to bring more idea’s Gary/All Monkey’s. I see Both Side’s.

We like the Riders Union.

We don’t like equal pay for the Winners.

I think we need to Firgure out Top of Race Winners Pay Scale. That’s all. Top what? 10? Whatever It is.

The rest we set on a fair Scale based on cost to contend?

Can we talk about that,or should I just go to the corner?

Avy

Hey,can you Monkeys give me/us you’re thoughts on the above questions? I am out of the corner and want to know: What is a Proper Wage for 1,2 and 3 for there hard work On the Podium? A good start this is.

Avy