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DHR question....

johnbrittain

Monkey
Jun 14, 2003
200
0
Amarillo, Texas
This season i rode an '05 V10 and liked it, but college is coming and other expenses too. Ive been looking into a DHR but really wanted to know how they felt as far as small bump sensitivity and how well they still soak up the big hits.i looked at a couple threads but wanted to hear from any of you on the new model. also, i heard their bushings used to wear out fast, but they changed that, does their new bearing system work well?
also, how much would an '04 or used '05 run me down on $$$.

thanks
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
You're coming from a v-10 and stressing about the bearings on a single pivot??:p

Don't sweat it. If you ride in a bunch of mud, you'll need to grease some links through a zerk port.........set aside about 15 seconds of your time.

The same size dhr will be slightly longer, noticibly lower and with the right shock spring, can be made just as plush or even more so than a v-10 with the platform shocks that come on them. As far as big jumps/hard landings.......they have an inherently progressive frame design and run a much lower leverage ratio than the v-10s. They're better in that respect. I've still only bottomed mine once.

Don't kid yourself. A turner is not a downgrade.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
You can get a gently used '05 for about $1500-1400. There are several on sale here. '04 are cheaper but usually come with the Romic vs the Fox on the '05. The fox is worth all the hype.

The DHR never used bushings. It uses roller bearings with angular contact bearings for the main pivot. The older ('02-'03) used smaller bearings for the main pivot. It does use bushings for the side load, but they are cheap and don't see much load.
The bearing system has its flaws but works well with regular maintenance. Grease is your friend and should be pumped into the zircs after every ride. A complete overhaul is cheaper when compared to most bikes with sealed bearings.

IMO, the suspension works great. I've never ridden a v10 but I really like my DHR. The suspension is quite progressive which means it can be set up very soft. I have never felt mine bottom.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
thaflyinfatman said:
Your bike would have to be way oversprung for you to have only ever bottomed it once.

Not really. Progressive linkage combined with the bottom out chamber of a DHX means you can use most to all of your travel without a harsh bottom. Maybe that still counts as bottoming.
 

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
buildyourown said:
Not really. Progressive linkage combined with the bottom out chamber of a DHX means you can use most to all of your travel without a harsh bottom. Maybe that still counts as bottoming.
If you use all your travel, that would be bottoming out...
 

johnbrittain

Monkey
Jun 14, 2003
200
0
Amarillo, Texas
good deal. i really wanted to get a turner to begin with but was talked out of it for some odd reason. If you know anyone who is looking for a v10 in great condition send a pm my way.

thanks,

jb
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
thaflyinfatman said:
If you use all your travel, that would be bottoming out...
You should go ride a turner off of something really high to a flat landing. Then take that same turner on a maching stuttery dh run. It's good design, not improper spring weight. I weigh 165 and use a 350 lb spring. Do the math on leverage with 8.5 of travel with a 3.0 stroke. Undersprung and my ankles hurt on landings before it bottoms.

That philosophy in a blanket application is bs considering the wide array of ways to build a suspension bike.
 

LokiLopez

Monkey
Sep 7, 2005
437
0
London
buildyourown said:
You can get a gently used '05 for about $1500-1400. There are several on sale here. '04 are cheaper but usually come with the Romic vs the Fox on the '05. The fox is worth all the hype.
Is the Fox that diferent and worth changing?
I ask this because the DHR I'm getting has a Romic and I wanted to know how the two compare(or dont).


johnbrittain: sorry to "invade" your topic ;)
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
LokiLopez said:
Is the Fox that diferent and worth changing?
I ask this because the DHR I'm getting has a Romic and I wanted to know how the two compare(or dont).

The romic can be good, but it's hard to get it there. There isn't that much you can tune on them yourself and reliability can be spotty.
That said, I've ridden some dialed romics, but they required multiply factory tuning sessions to get that way.

Maybe the fox I got was just perfectly valved for my bike/weight, but I did very little setup on it. My fox fork felt the same way. For me, the factory settings were spot on.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
i just picked up a DHR and a Ti Avy to go with it.....once i get some ride time ill let you know how it feels.........but im assuming it will be nice:drool:
 

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
kidwoo said:
You should go ride a turner off of something really high to a flat landing. Then take that same turner on a maching stuttery dh run. It's good design, not improper spring weight. I weigh 165 and use a 350 lb spring. Do the math on leverage with 8.5 of travel with a 3.0 stroke. Undersprung and my ankles hurt on landings before it bottoms.

That philosophy in a blanket application is bs considering the wide array of ways to build a suspension bike.
2.83:1 is the leverage ratio, that's not exceptionally low. My SGS is 2.91:1, not a huge difference, and that bike isn't *hugely* resistant to bottom-out. Same with the Sundays, they have a lower leverage ratio than the Turners (2.67:1) and all the ones I've ridden have been pretty easy to bottom out (keeping in mind again that they're usually set up for guys lighter than me). Yes I'm aware of the difference in shock rates (I have plotted them), but they're not THAT different.

BTW, I've ridden 2 05 (or 04... square tubing anyway) Turners in the last couple of months (admittedly both somewhat undersprung for me, but not by that much). Could bottom them out fairly easily.

If your ankles hurt on landings and you're not using fairy boots with the cleats set roughly at the tips of your toes, then yes I would say your setup is too stiff in one manner or another (oversprung, or WAY WAY overdamped - more likely oversprung IMO). I find it extremely hard to believe that such a setup would be considered undersprung.

That said, Turners are fun bikes and I'd happily ride one.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,480
4,720
Australia
My DHR came with a Romic and I've just changed it to the DHX. No negatives except weight, and that's only ~100grams but the shock is much, much better. More lively, yet somehow pedals better. I love it. Totally worth what i paid to upgrade the shock.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
thaflyinfatman said:
2.83:1 is the leverage ratio, that's not exceptionally low. My SGS is 2.91:1, not a huge difference, and that bike isn't *hugely* resistant to bottom-out. Same with the Sundays, they have a lower leverage ratio than the Turners (2.67:1) and all the ones I've ridden have been pretty easy to bottom out (keeping in mind again that they're usually set up for guys lighter than me). Yes I'm aware of the difference in shock rates (I have plotted them), but they're not THAT different.

BTW, I've ridden 2 05 (or 04... square tubing anyway) Turners in the last couple of months (admittedly both somewhat undersprung for me, but not by that much). Could bottom them out fairly easily.

If your ankles hurt on landings and you're not using fairy boots with the cleats set roughly at the tips of your toes, then yes I would say your setup is too stiff in one manner or another (oversprung, or WAY WAY overdamped - more likely oversprung IMO). I find it extremely hard to believe that such a setup would be considered undersprung.

That said, Turners are fun bikes and I'd happily ride one.
I mentioned leverage ratios only to get a spring rate reference. SGS bikes are nowhere near as progressive as turners. If I set my bike so that I was bottoming it with any sort of regularity, I'd be sagging it out at about 60%.

I ride a completely linear shock with minnimum air pressure and no sort of compression damping at all. It's not a dhx. And I either ride flats or my clips as far back towards my heel as my shoes will allow.

I know what I'm talking about. So does buildyourown and most of the other guys you hear piping up with turners on this board.
Until you've set up this particular bike for yourself and have had a good amount of riding on it, just accept the fact that you might actually have something to learn. I've had guys bottom out my bike when they borrowed it too. And both of them said it sagged way too much for them. Which makes sense considering they were both 30-50lbs heavier than me.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
Plus the 'Woo goes large - anyone's ankles could be forgiven for hurting a bit even on a perfect bike.

There was another thread a while back about whether proper setup means bottoming out fairly frequently. My opinion is that it makes some sense for pure DH but is too soft and not fun for body or bike for freeride, jumps and drops, etc. For that kind of riding, the biggest hits are exactly where I DO NOT want to bottom out. The trick for me is to use most of my travel, most of the time, and still have a little extra for the biggest hits.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Regardless of jumps and drops, keep in mind that I ride northstar literally every weekend of the summer. I like my bike soft.......it hurts otherwise.:p But that's why I like the turner.......it rides soft and still gives a really progressive cush when you blow through your travel.

You know the second rock on boondocks right before that rock crotch thing that's hard to get through without banging your pedals or bars? There's a hard right turn then a little straight away to what's only about a 3-4 foot drop with a little lip. When I was screwing around with spring weights, that's the one that hurt the most for some reason with the lighter spring. I never got a true bottom out but it ramps so hard those last few millimeters give some serious resistance. Plus my bike rode like a chopper with a spring that soft. That was with a romic which is now my backup shock...........hence my signature.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
kidwoo said:
There's a hard right turn then a little straight away to what's only about a 3-4 foot drop with a little lip. When I was screwing around with spring weights, that's the one that hurt the most for some reason with the lighter spring.
I think I know the drop you mean and also do not understand why that one hurts so much. It's some kind of weird optical illusion - looks like a bit of a downward slope but feels like you land going uphill or something...
 

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
kidwoo said:
I mentioned leverage ratios only to get a spring rate reference. SGS bikes are nowhere near as progressive as turners. If I set my bike so that I was bottoming it with any sort of regularity, I'd be sagging it out at about 60%.

I ride a completely linear shock with minnimum air pressure and no sort of compression damping at all. It's not a dhx. And I either ride flats or my clips as far back towards my heel as my shoes will allow.

I know what I'm talking about. So does buildyourown and most of the other guys you hear piping up with turners on this board.
Until you've set up this particular bike for yourself and have had a good amount of riding on it, just accept the fact that you might actually have something to learn. I've had guys bottom out my bike when they borrowed it too. And both of them said it sagged way too much for them. Which makes sense considering they were both 30-50lbs heavier than me.
What shock would that be? I don't know of any completely linear shocks that allow you to adjust the air pressure to begin with.

The two DHRs I rode were set up for guys who weighed about 10-15kg less than me in both instances. Neither of them sagged more than about 40% (my estimation anyway - they weren't stupid soft) with me on it. One had a Romic, the other had a Swinger 6-way (remote res version, off a Giant I believe). I didn't struggle to bottom either of them (Romic with a 400lb spring and the Swinger with a 400 too I believe), and I wasn't doing anything big or slamming them into stuff particularly hard. So you can probably understand, given my experiences, why I find it hard to believe that with an undersprung setup, no compression damping, a completely linear shock and obviously going big/riding hard, you've only ever bottomed it once. Maybe you're just 100x smoother than me and everyone I ride with, I don't know. Or maybe a lot of the time you're not bottoming it hard enough to notice (which is entirely possible, and if you ARE bottoming it like that regularly and not feeling it abruptly then I would say your bike is very well setup). I'm not calling you a liar here, I just think I'm not getting the whole story in one manner or another.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I've had a romic, fox vanilla rc and a fox vanilla dh on my turners.

But you nailed it. I'm smooth as hell.

Either that or everything everyone else has said similar to my claims just rides an oversprung turner and doesn't know it.

Thanks for the info!!:thumb:
 

MOTODH

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2005
1,167
0
CT
the progressive linkage also puts less stress on the shock
It is very different from a V10 lot more flickable from what i have seen by riding them