Which shock would overall perform better on a sunday for strictly downhilling on the east coast. Ive heard great things about both.
Thanks
Thanks
Dhx 5.0 or a 5th element on a Sunday
- Thread starter ShredsTheGNAR
- Start date
I don't own a Sunday nor have I ever ridden one. But I bought a 5th on my MC Fury and it was the worst riding shock I have ever ridden in my entire life. The valving was so far off it wasn't funny. I rode a Santa Cruz, and another Fury with 5th's and guess what, they sucked too. I left 2 voice mails for those SOB's in Tech support/Warranty before I got rid of that trash and got a Dhx. I can't promise that the Dhx, will be the shiznit, but unless the Sunday has some crazy high leverage ratio I would strongly suggest you get the Dhx.
What a bs post.
Progressive has great customer service and their shocks can be tuned to perfection to the Sunday and that has nothing to do with high leverage ratio.
Only a few people has ridden the Sunday with a DHX as they do not fit the old link. My 05 Sunday with the 5th has worked great and it has been very well balanced with the Boxxer and I have at no time been able to blame the shock for any riding mistakes.
My specualtion is that it will be more about feel than performance in the choice between the two.
Progressive has great customer service and their shocks can be tuned to perfection to the Sunday and that has nothing to do with high leverage ratio.
Only a few people has ridden the Sunday with a DHX as they do not fit the old link. My 05 Sunday with the 5th has worked great and it has been very well balanced with the Boxxer and I have at no time been able to blame the shock for any riding mistakes.
My specualtion is that it will be more about feel than performance in the choice between the two.
I guarantee the DHX is smoother over the small bumps at high speeds, with propedal wide open, boost air pressure at 80-100psi, and rebound set fast.CBJ said:
I;ve never ridden a single rear shock that can take drops like a giant suction cup WHILE ALSO boosting off jumps and drops like a bat out of hell! Given the same trail gap jump I hit every day, at the same speed and same level of pumping off the lip I can get 50% more air time out of the DHX than the other shocks I've tried. The last 1/4 of shock stroke on the DHX feels like a rocket booster off jumps.
Most other shocks can be setup for either jumping OR dropping, not both. The DHX does both brilliantly.
So that must be like 30 more pinkbike feet of air huh? Wow you must really rip.Spokompton said:
Obviously with your tuned to perfection, well balanced 5th you have tons of experiance with their customer service department. My experiance clearly wasn't as rosy as yours. I guess I have to temper my post because I was just told that Iron Horse has a specially valved 5th. Not sure if it's true or not, but the off the shelf valved 5th I owned and the others that I have ridden, were too damn slow. Thats my 2 cents. If it ain't coming from Iron Horse get the DHX.CBJ said:
Stop the fight and get an Avalanche.....problem solved
thanks for the advice, seems like the dhx is the better choice.
Yeah the 5th element does work well on the Sunday - but IMO it's not optimal. When Rob used to work for progressive, their CS rocked!! But now they arent on top of my CS top 10 list. I was promised a 48 hour turnaround on a shock I sent them (for my 7Point) but ended up waiting over FOUR WEEKS until I got it back. Thank god it was off season! 
My Progressive shock worked pretty good on my Sunday this year, but the Pushed Vanilla I had on there for a while was much more active and responsive to small bumps than the 5th unfortunately the Vanilla had to be valved very light + not having any settings to smoothen the bottoming out, the shock was blowing through its travel way too quick. Too bad the 05 links didnt accommodate the DHX because thats what I would of ran all year heck I bought a DHX at the same time I ordered my Sunday thinking it would fit. I still have it and will run it on my personal bike once I get the new 06 link.
I now have a DHX on the 06 Sunday that was lent to me by Iron Horse it feels much better than any Progressive Ive ever felt. I just have to dial it in a bit and ride it more.
Im not saying the Progressive is a BAD shock but when measured against the DHX, it definitely falls short.
My $0.02 worth okay now Im heading out for a 2nd ride
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
My Progressive shock worked pretty good on my Sunday this year, but the Pushed Vanilla I had on there for a while was much more active and responsive to small bumps than the 5th unfortunately the Vanilla had to be valved very light + not having any settings to smoothen the bottoming out, the shock was blowing through its travel way too quick. Too bad the 05 links didnt accommodate the DHX because thats what I would of ran all year heck I bought a DHX at the same time I ordered my Sunday thinking it would fit. I still have it and will run it on my personal bike once I get the new 06 link.
I now have a DHX on the 06 Sunday that was lent to me by Iron Horse it feels much better than any Progressive Ive ever felt. I just have to dial it in a bit and ride it more.
Im not saying the Progressive is a BAD shock but when measured against the DHX, it definitely falls short.
My $0.02 worth okay now Im heading out for a 2nd ride
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
typical pinkbike response...ncrider said:
No, it's more like a 10 foot gap on flat ground. I get over 15 feet off it with the DHX. That's also with having the DHX set to take drops too.
Drops = slow rebound and compression needed
Jumps = faster rebound and compression needed
What makes the DHX special is that in somehow covers both areas perfectly with the same shock setting.
On top of that you can control the low speed damping by hand, where as SPV shocks need a pump.
I have spent many hours riding many iterations of 5th elements on Sundays starting in late 2003 and DHXs this year.
The 5th Element, when tuned to work with the dw-link is a pretty great performing shock. The "pedaling platform" is basically removed from the beginning of the travel and lets the dw-link take care of all of the acceleration efficiency duties. The "pedaling platform" then ends up giving a nice end-stroke damping ramp up without some of the tradeoffs in regards to spring rate change that a progressive link would give. We run the shocks with a special tune that uses about 1/3 the damping of most other bikes. This is partly due to the Sunday's low leverage rate, partly due to the unique dw-link leverage rate curve, and mostly due to the dw-link anti-squat curve and what it accomplishes under acceleration. The shocks are set up with CVT Chamber volume 1 turn from full open, very low pressure (50-90 psi), 0 turns in on low speed compression, a turn or so on the high speed, and rebound to suit. The shock is lively and performs very well.
The DHX is a worthy competitor to the 5th Element. It has a lot of the same feel of the 5th,but is definitely more "lively" on the trail. It tends to use a little more of its travel in the middle, but ramps up nicely in the end. I have been running a couple turns in on the pro-pedal on the tunes that we have, and I really like it. I do not recommend the DHX air though. The shock is crazy light, but it really uses its travel. For Sea Otter it may be OK, but not for every course in my opinion. One other positive about the DHX is that it is pretty lightweight. Couple a DHX with a ti spring on a Sunday any you have a DH frame and shock in the high 9 lbs range.
All in all its personal preference. Both shocks are great performers. Taking the time to tune one or the other to suit you will give the biggest performance gains you can get.
Happy Thanksgiving all
Dave
The 5th Element, when tuned to work with the dw-link is a pretty great performing shock. The "pedaling platform" is basically removed from the beginning of the travel and lets the dw-link take care of all of the acceleration efficiency duties. The "pedaling platform" then ends up giving a nice end-stroke damping ramp up without some of the tradeoffs in regards to spring rate change that a progressive link would give. We run the shocks with a special tune that uses about 1/3 the damping of most other bikes. This is partly due to the Sunday's low leverage rate, partly due to the unique dw-link leverage rate curve, and mostly due to the dw-link anti-squat curve and what it accomplishes under acceleration. The shocks are set up with CVT Chamber volume 1 turn from full open, very low pressure (50-90 psi), 0 turns in on low speed compression, a turn or so on the high speed, and rebound to suit. The shock is lively and performs very well.
The DHX is a worthy competitor to the 5th Element. It has a lot of the same feel of the 5th,but is definitely more "lively" on the trail. It tends to use a little more of its travel in the middle, but ramps up nicely in the end. I have been running a couple turns in on the pro-pedal on the tunes that we have, and I really like it. I do not recommend the DHX air though. The shock is crazy light, but it really uses its travel. For Sea Otter it may be OK, but not for every course in my opinion. One other positive about the DHX is that it is pretty lightweight. Couple a DHX with a ti spring on a Sunday any you have a DH frame and shock in the high 9 lbs range.
All in all its personal preference. Both shocks are great performers. Taking the time to tune one or the other to suit you will give the biggest performance gains you can get.
Happy Thanksgiving all
Dave
DW, i have a question.
I have a 5th on mine, and it feels fine so far (i'm running maybe 40% sag on the stroke). Should i be running any compression (ending stroke) or bottom out? I am unable to get out and test it until Saturday, and i want to have it all sorted before i get out there.
Dave
I have a 5th on mine, and it feels fine so far (i'm running maybe 40% sag on the stroke). Should i be running any compression (ending stroke) or bottom out? I am unable to get out and test it until Saturday, and i want to have it all sorted before i get out there.
Dave
I've had a 5th on my Sunday and it worked pretty well once I got it set up right (this took several trips to progressive) However I got my hands on a remote resevoir DHX and have to say that I like it far more. It allows me to move the bike around more on the trail which suits my riding style more. Basicaly if you like to more around and jump over trail obstacles the dhx seems to work better. If staying on the ground is more your style than the 5th is probably your cup of tea.
That has more to do with your rebound I would believe.NateH said:
DHX let's you get away with a pretty fast rebound.
I have noted the same thing though. The DHX just loves to get air off anything in sight, which is my style. It also allows me to get just as much air at the dirt jumps as I get out of my Dj bike.
DHX with remote resi? Never heard of it. Are they available aftermarket or what?
ncrider said:
Dude, that is an Awesome response!
What a great observation...I laughed so damn hard my wife thought I was high!
Just changed my Bullit's 5th element coil CVT for a Fox DHX 5.0 Air , the Fox works great, and the bike went on a diet. Here in South America all the 5th elements Air broke.
Just as I thought, the valving was way the f@#k off for my bike. Are both compression and rebound valving 2/3 less that the stock ?dw said:
the DHX will be smoother than the progressive. It just comes off as better all around
After we got a 5th re valved for a 7. it was absolutely completely different and better.
Get the shock revalved ASAP if you have a 'stiff' one.
The shock fees good enought that i would spend that $400 on other upgrades to the bike instead of getting a DHX.Unless of course you just got new rims and tires and fresh cables,grips etc and still have $400-Then get a DHX! It ultimately will work the best.
We sell the remote resi DHX shocks here (at Go-Ride) and can get the right hardware to work on a sunday if anyone has an 05.
Krispy - on v dub's computer.
Get the shock revalved ASAP if you have a 'stiff' one.
The shock fees good enought that i would spend that $400 on other upgrades to the bike instead of getting a DHX.Unless of course you just got new rims and tires and fresh cables,grips etc and still have $400-Then get a DHX! It ultimately will work the best.
We sell the remote resi DHX shocks here (at Go-Ride) and can get the right hardware to work on a sunday if anyone has an 05.
Krispy - on v dub's computer.
It very well may have been spot on for your bike, but the stock 5th element valving (and the valving used for evrery other DH bike that I am aware of) is way too stiff on a dw-link bike. You can run a dw-link tuned 5th on other suspensions, but generally, whatever bike you do that on, the bike is going to heave and bob a lot under acceleration.trialsmasta said:
Dave
My Fury has a leverage ratio of 2.5 which I belive is less than the Sunday. So if you had to remove 2/3 of the damping on a Sunday, bobbing asside the valving was way of for me.dw said:
5th? DHX? Nah...Avy, right DW?
hahah..so true....i m calling Avy all the way from Australia proabably next week when i have time....thought about getting the Fox DHX air to save some weight..but meh...few hundred grams...who cares...and also cant be botherd to get the new link to accomodate for the DHXs..jefedelosjefes said:
What was your CVT chamber pressure and volume? Also, what was your low speed compression screw set at? Those adjustments make a big difference on the 5th. I'm just curious more than anything at this point. I'm not doubting that there was something wrong with your shock, I've seen enough valving issues with out of the box shocks this year to not take anything for granted anymore!trialsmasta said:
I have a CHUBIE that I have run on one of my Sunday test bikes, and the shock felt phenomenal. Lighter riders may have difficulty getting a light enough spring though. I'm not 100% sure what the latest is on that. A CHUBIE with a ti 300 spring would be a sweet setup. DHX and AVY run about 25lbs higher spring than 5th for given rider weight.jefedelosjefes said:
dw said:
romic might be the ticket for those springs, i have one here thats 150lbs.
dw said:What was your CVT chamber pressure and volume? Also, what was your low speed compression screw set at? Those adjustments make a big difference on the 5th. I'm just curious more than anything at this point. I'm not doubting that there was something wrong with your shock, I've seen enough valving issues with out of the box shocks this year to not take anything for granted anymore!
I ran pressure from 50 to 130 psi, chamber volume maxed out and all adjustments completely backed out. I had everything as light as I could possibly get it.
I wouldn't really know, their customer service never got back to me, but MC was curtious enough to swap the shock out for me, so now I'm happy. But the other 2 bikes I rode with 5th elements felt terrible too, so thats 3 out of 3, I'm leaning towards their shock valving dosn't suit my ridding style.dw said:
Dave,dw said:
Since you have probably the most different shocks on your Sunday and played with them the most, which one do you like best and why? What things did you and didn't you like about the others?
Rich
You really have to know what you're doing with all the adjustments on the 5th shock to make it ride nice. I got a 5th shock when they first started making bike shocks for my Uzzi-SLX. I thought it was the biggest piece of crap until I got Intense's suspension guy to tune the shock. It was a night and day difference and I haven't touched it in the last 3 years. My 7" travel FR/DH bike bobs less than any other XC bike that I've ridden with a Fox shock. My Intense Tracer with a Fox propedal is about the same...neither bike has any bob, but the Tracer and my old Ellsworth Truth used to bob more when they had Fox Float RC's. Other non-Horst link bikes bobbed even more. I've ridden some friends bikes including Kona's and Specialized Big Hit's and their suspension with a Fox shox is a lot more active, but it bobs more and feels less in control. I have a really hard time hopping the rear end of my bike off the ground because of the 5th shock. It gives the bike a really dead feel, but it's what I want for DH racing and trails. If I wanted to jump my bike then I would get a different shock, but the 5th is awesome for DH racing and trails because it just soaks up all the hits without throwing you offline or bucking you over the bars because of too much rebound. Mine is also very smooth and light feeling until the last couple inches where it ramps up.
