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DHX 5.0 Question

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by bpatterson6, Sep 30, 2005.

  1. bpatterson6

    bpatterson6 Turbo Monkey

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    I have already searched the forums for an answer but didn't find any.

    When my DHX 5.0 Shock is installed on the frame, without the spring (As described in the Installation instructions of the manual) :

    When moving the shock thru it's travel and jarring the shock with hits, are you supposed to feel bottom out resistance or any type of compression dampening?
    The Air Chamber has 135lbs of air in it and it doesn't feel like any compression dampening or bottom out resistance is taking place.

    It's seems as though there might not be any bottom out resistance or compression dampening happening. The Tire keeps touching the frame and it is really concerning me. I'm not sure if the shock (Brand New out of the Box) is in perfect working order.

    :help:
     

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  2. largextracheese

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    I just got mine and have yet to ride it. I can say that if I'm reading correctly that you are doing all this without the spring? If so, I'd say that the spring is an integral part to how the shock functions. By having no spring, you'll have no feeling of it's abilities/adjustments. I'd guess that by even having a 50lb spring on it it, it would be similar in it's "nothing" feel. I can't wait to ride mine. And all those fun dials to play with! Put the spring on it and then have you're fun.
     
  3. bomberboy11

    bomberboy11 Monkey

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    Untrue. You should be able to feel a lot of resistance in the valving alone with the compression turned up, by hand though - particularly towards the end of the stroke. The best way to feel it is just to try and push the shaft into the body of the shock with your hand to see when the bottom out compression is engaging, then adjust it as you ride. If you don't feel anything changing at all when you try to compress it by hand there is definetely something wrong.
     
  4. zedro

    zedro Turbo Monkey

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    blah blah blah.....ride the damn thing and stop guessing what it should feel like without coil/without riding it. The whole thing about damping is it requires SPEED to give it resistance. That pressure increases high speed damping, something you cannot feel in a,...uhhh....feel test.


    why do people get so insecure about these things without even trying it?
     
    #4 -   Oct 1, 2005
  5. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    You will never know how it feels without a spring. Cycling the shock slowly will do NOTHING. The valving works with resistance...the oil moving slowly around the shims will not do anything, it has to hit it with a decent amount of force.

    Put the damn spring on, ride it, and adjust it as you go.
     
    #5 -   Oct 1, 2005
  6. bpatterson6

    bpatterson6 Turbo Monkey

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    Alright...

    I'm just irritated that the Tire keep hitting the frame when bottoming out and the Bottom is at it's maximum setting. I can bottom it out just by going off a small 2ft drop...Maybe it's the spring that isnt right.
    I dunno, I will keep trying...Updates as i have them...
     
    #6 -   Oct 1, 2005
  7. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    That has nothing to do with the shock man...either the shock stroke is too long (too much travel), the tire is too big or the frame is badly designed.

    The bottom out will keep the shock from bottoming harhsly and damaging the shock....not from bottoming.

    If you are bottomming off 2 foot drops at speed, the spring is probably too soft. You can easily bottom it out off a curb if you are riding slowly as the damping won't really do a thing to stop it. It gets harder as you try and push oil over the shims at speed.
     
    #7 -   Oct 1, 2005
  8. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    What is your sag looking like when you sit on the bike? It should be around 30 % of the shock stroke used when you just sit on it idle. If it is more, you need a harder spring.
     
    #8 -   Oct 1, 2005
  9. oly

    oly skin cooker for the hive

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    It sounds like something is seriously wrong if your tire is hitting your frame. Maybe a better description of You, Your bike and the dimensions of your shock can get you more help in whats really wrong. Is this a new bike? Or have you upgraded?

    #1 setup step is to get the correct spring for your bike (proper SAG). If your upgrading your last shock, that should get you a starting point... look at the last spring... are there still #'s on it?? If not, then your starting from scratch, but if the weight is listed then you have a head start. If the DHX spring is not close to the old one then you need a stiffer spring. If its a new bike that was just spec'd weird, list it with your weight so people can advise you. There are just too many variables to go on from your description of your setup... oh wait.. you didnt give a description :nope:

    A tip for checking sag.... put a small zip tie on the shock shaft and clip off the excess tie. Re-install spring and give a little preload. Slide the tie up against the shock body, and proceede with checking sag. BUT DONT FORGET TO REMOVE TIE BEFORE RIDING BIKE. By doing this you dont need to buy a buddy a beer to hold the tapemeasure while you sit in your "Attack" position.
     
    #9 -   Oct 1, 2005
  10. thaflyinfatman

    thaflyinfatman Turbo Monkey

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    Ok, the reason for this is because the bottom-out resistance thing is simply a compression damper, NOT any form of actual spring (it's not, for example, like raising the oil height in your Marz/Boxxer forks). As the other guys said, unless the shaft is moving fast (which you can't do by hand) then it won't do anything.

    However, if it's bottoming off that kind of thing when you're riding it with the spring on, yes something may be wrong. Does the rebound adjuster work alright? Rebound adjusters packing it in are usually the first signs of a blown shock.
     
  11. bpatterson6

    bpatterson6 Turbo Monkey

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    All functions of the shock seem to work fine in 4" & 5" Travel mode.
    Sag is exactly what's specified in the Manual for Stroke and Length.
    which is: 7.875 x 2.0
    It has a completely different feel in 6" Travel Mode.
    It bottoms so easily in 6" Travel Mode even with 175lbs in the Air Chamber and the bottom out cranked all the way in.
    I'd sure like to have a suspension Guru take a gander...
    I dunno, I'm thinking I may take the Bike up to Darren at PUSH in the next several weeks and see what his thoughts are.
    I know they are busy since being under staffed this past week while Darren and the others were at Interbike.

    It must just be the Tire Size. 26x2.5 Maxxis High Roller DH Tire.

    Q: If a spring rate feels perfect in 4" & 5" Travel Mode, could the same Spring need to be replaced in 6" Travel Mode? I'm already using a 650lb Spring.

    Excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I'm trying to understand. I appreciate all the knowledge from everyone.
    No need to flame me for trying to learn...

    In my experience, if you want to learn:
    ASK QUESTIONS AND GET YOUR HANDS ON!

    Here is my Bike:





    I upgraded the shock after having trouble with the SPV not holding air on the Manitou 4-Way.
    I was told that the DHX 5.0 is a much better shock and so far in 6" Travel mode, it hasn't felt better yet.
    In 4" and 5" mode, it has been a much better shock.
    I'm very excited to get out tomorrow and get a good ride on it.
    I may move the shock back into 6" mode and see how it rides.,

    Thanks.
    -Billy
     
  12. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    There's no way in hell you are going to be able to use one spring for a bike that has a travel range from 4" to 6". When you change the travel setting, it changes the leverage ratio of the suspension, and when you change the leverage ratio, it means you need a different spring for the optimal ride.

    "Adjustable travel" is kind of a farce, kind of works with an air shock where you can adjust the spring easily, but with a coil shock it simply doesn't work. If you get a strong enough spring for 6", you'll be over sprung at 5" and 4". If you get a spring that works great for 4", it will bottom like crazy and blow through the travel at 6". No question, this is your problem.

    The other part of this that could be adding to the problem is that your suspension rate (progressive, linear or falling) will also often change with "adjustable travel" settings. So in the 4" setting you have a nice progressive or linear setting. I will gaurentee that the more the linkage rotates (usually at greater travel settings the linkage will rotate more) the closer it will get to a falling rate. Often times this is also a problem, but problem number one is that you always need a different spring for a different travel (leverage ratio) setting.
     
  13. oly

    oly skin cooker for the hive

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    I once owned a Banshee with 3 travel settings. If i ran the correct spring for 8" travel (900lbs) It was as good as a solid strut in the 6" mode. It had a little give, but there was no way i could ever hope to get the suspension to work with the same spring across all 3 settings.

    One word of caution though, If you are hitting the frame with the tire when the shock bottoms out, are you sure you got the correct i2i. I think the DHX comes in 7.5 x 2, and 7.875 x 2.25. I dont have my order sheet handy to double check... maybe someone can confirm that. When my Banshee didnt have a spring on the shock and I pushed on it till the bottom out bumper was as flat as 240lbs could squish it, i still had a good .25" of space between the tire and frame. I would hope you would also have some space as a saftey factor. Shocks do bottom even when setup correct (although thats a classic internet argument on how often). My thinking is it would be real dangerous to design a bike that has interferance at complete bottom out.....

    One last note: Are you sure that in the 6" mode that the blue bottom out isnt hitting the frame? I would make real sure it wasnt before you go too far and either dent frame, or damage shock.

    Good luck.

    EDIT: Your also running a tire known to be pretty small for its measured size. I'd really check the i2i of the shock, Compare the old one, or call Versus for the correct spec.
     
  14. largextracheese

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    I invented a new word/name for 50% of the bikes out there.........Kontranturntreksheesus. I agree with the adjustable trvel spring conclusion. On that particular design it does not work in real world riding. Get a spring for the 6 inch mode and leave it. The DHX will pedal as good anyways(if setup right) in the 6" as the 4" mode.