Diablo Negligence WTF????
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- blow-out haircuts branches for bicthes check yo sheet diablo apologists! diablo sucks dick dirtymike is a birther dirtymike............. dying mountain happensatplattyallthetime jabba the hutt knuckledraggers learn gross negligence monkey balls our poop doesnt stink platty has moar trails platty owns diablos mom platty trails are clear premier danger zone shawn willrecchyo for $ snookie closed it tags got deleted?
I do that every day when I get in a car, whether it's trusting that the brakes are going to work, or that the stoplight at that busy intersection is not going to go GREEN/GREEN at the same time. Or that that bottle of Tylenol isn't actually pills made of rat poison. Or that the meat I'm eating isn't contaminated. Etc.
Your argument makes all sorts of assumptions but then concedes the main point in closing.
You are arguing common sense ultimately, and this is about responsibility and ultimately liability. It is a reasonable assumption that at a managed resorts, trails will be marked, and additionally - techniques will not be used which have the potential of creating a hazard for the riders.
Here's another clear example: When you''re driviing do you slow to a crawl before passing through every intersection despite having a green light/right of way just in case someone irresponsible decides to blow the light at 100mph and blindside you? Or do you operate on the reasonable assumption that others will abide by the rules, be attentive, and be responsible for their own actions?
Motorcycle-Semi? Yeah it would be a dumb move to put yourself at risk, but should he get in front of that semi and be run down, guess who's liable? Sure its the riders loss - but you're mixing up issues and missing the point.
Take responsibility for your own life. Unless it's being hurled at you or you are lured into it, it's not somebody else's problem.
Live your life. Take it on yourself to control your destiny. Depend on no one else to ever look after for your well being.
Live your life. Take it on yourself to control your destiny. Depend on no one else to ever look after for your well being.
people should be aware of their awesome way of shutting down a stunt and how they seemingly dont care enough to speak with the OP about the situation.
i cant believe they havent deleted their response to this situation yet.
Every ridden a rollercoaster? Airplane? Train? Bus/public transportation? Been a passenger in car?
Have to agree with Jester - there's a reasonable expectation of safety here. The whole "inspect features/trail before riding" deal has to do with checking your skill set against the feature in question - not to perform maintenance for the park. If you are the ones doing the "Trail Sweep" every morning at the park, you should submit a bill for your time to the park and get reimbursed.
The park owner's response is bogus, if not a bit defensive. Not very well versed in customer service (but, who is nowadays?) If he thinks its reasonable to assume that somebody took the time to clear the top part of the feature, closure sign and whatever other barriers were in place to mark the trail as closed, its just as reasonable to assume they would have cleared the landing as well. Did you see the photos of the landing? It would take a whole 30 seconds to clear that out... Either way, its supposition. Can the park prove the trail/feature was closed? The burden would be on them in court to prove it.
Glad the OP wasn't seriously injured, would be great act of goodwill on the park to replace it for him. Instead, the park gets hundreds of posts over at least two forums.
Maybe they think any press is good press...
That is a gross oversimplification, and not reflective of anyones reality. We are not isolated individuals going it alone, we are a collaborative, cooperative (for the most part), community - we have rules and standards.
We all make reasonable assumptions about a breadth of things on a constant basis. If we took the time to question everything all the time we would die off for lack of productivity.
SUMMARY:
OF COURSE it is common sense to check trails/features before hitting them; I do myself - yes - the OP could be considered foolish.
OF COURSE it is the resorts responsibility to manage risk and do EVERYTHING in their power to prevent rider injury, and in turn, resort liability.
- The major underlying points here are:
1. A very poor method of trail closure; it is reasonable to expect that some <insert derisive label here> would tamper with trail markers and closure signage, which exacerbates the poor decision to block off the tranny, which should be considered unnecessary and excessive; the sign should be enough. If the trail is closed because of a hazard, creating a greater one is certainly not reasonable. Those found in violation can have their access revoked or banned.
2. An alleged poor initial response from Diablo,
3. An actual poor response from Diablo on this forum.
In this scenario, if a law suit wound up impacting, or closing Diablo operations, it would not be the fault of the OP, but Diablo for poor risk management. REGARDLESS of whether or not you feel the OP is at fault or not.
I would like Diablo to learn from this, it is a mistake. Not to do so would risk their operation, and my (and your) access to it.
And one more OF COURSE -- OF COURSE whomever removed the signage should be ashamed; that is stupid, entitled, irresponsible, and almost caused someone to be seriously injured.
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I wouldn't want your job, but I'm sure you're good a what you do. Trail maintenance on just public trails can be a hassle, so props to you all and the work you put in to providing a keen place to ride.
Of course there are entitled riders that believe they can ride where ever they want, but I think your idea of riders clearing the sign and downfall on the beginning of the feature, and leaving the rest is a bit of stretch:
"then bailed when they saw that this would take a lot of time to clear the entire section of the trail."
So, they bailed after they saw it would take a whole 30 more seconds to a minute to clear the landing? C'mon, really?
Wait - I just noted that Shawn stated 'Diablo has been open for 7 years'
Correct me if Im wrong (surely there are plenty who would) But DFR opened in 2003. Inluding that season to now, this will be their 9th season......
Is this thread in a time warp?
Correct me if Im wrong (surely there are plenty who would) But DFR opened in 2003. Inluding that season to now, this will be their 9th season......
Is this thread in a time warp?
Seriously? Thats just ignoring the fact that the OP paid to ride a well known bike park.
You must live a completely self sustaining lifestyle where you grow all your food, harvest raw materials, do all the manufacturing, and rely on no other human being for anything.
Did you read the first post? Diablo refused to deal with it...
Man, there is so much man-bitch splattered all over this thread. It's like being in a port a jon on the set of a Jackass movie.
I assume you have never been in a plane, taken a taxi, had surgery, been skydiving etc...
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Agreed!
Believe Diablo has replied but again best to leave it to the parties involved.
Did you read the reply?
Does anyone know what the definition of 'forum' is?
The discussion is entirely appropriate, if you dont want to take part, dont.
Yes I did and I feel bad for the person who got hurt but most of all glad he is okay. What I dont follow is the point. If you really want to resolve an issue the parties involved need to deal with it and consider all point. Did we all want to protest? Heck no. Do we all not want to see someone get hurt? Of course yes.
I dont want to see a person get hurt just as much as I do not want to see Diablo close. I'm not the judge or jury and honest do not see a value in bashing a persons judgement or the park. I hope you understand I mean no harm but feel this is something best left to the parties involved.
I dont want to see a person get hurt just as much as I do not want to see Diablo close. I'm not the judge or jury and honest do not see a value in bashing a persons judgement or the park. I hope you understand I mean no harm but feel this is something best left to the parties involved.
Well said.
I disagree as I feel that this is something the public/consumer should be aware of, and the response so far has been inadequate. That concerns me, and clearly others as well.
I neither want to see Diablo close, nor anyone get hurt - I also dont want to see people making excuses for failure, or casting undue aspersions!
As with most valid discussions, there is a lot of unfocussed banter. I summed up my view a few messages up, and I think it is reasonable.
lol at the tags
This is it. Exactly. Since i've already been accused of "talking smack" by one of the parties involved from my earlier post on Page 2, might as well quote this statement. Forums are places meant for people to discuss opinions... whether it's bikes, automobiles, arts & crafts, airplanes etc.
Well, I look forward to seeing your I got ****ed up thread one day, I hope you do not get overly hurt.
I understand reasonable expectations.... I understand liability.... wait I am repeating **** noone is paying attention to here....... A little personal responsiblity..... can avoid the entire situation.
Your right, how do you gap by taking it easy........ You dont...... Dont go hitting the gaps full speed on your first run..... check your run first.... take the go around and see how it looks......... Next run.... go balls out.... run after that.... go balls out again.
You should also be resonable in the expectation that weather erodes trails, and people **** up from time to time.......
I thought everyone except for the person filing suit is supposed to be perfect?
Keep it simple then.
No one should ever expect to see or encounter what was there under ANY circumstances.
This wasnt erosion or a downed rider. It was a pile of crap placed there intentionally, which was a really bad idea under any circumstance.
Block the trail, but use some sense. The rider should look out for themself as you point out, but it doesn't absolve the resort of any responsibility.
The response should be that they'll look into what happened, and to cease putting blockage anywhere that could cause a hazard for riders - taking into consideration what COULD happen (Eg signs moved, trail partially cleared).
vs.
It's unfortunate but its not our fault, we have an impeccable record.
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I Agree on those points..... It was a bad idea under any circumstance.....
I agree that it doesnt absolve anyone from any wrong doing either.......
My simple point is, that if the rider had looked first, he could have avoided the crash, and potential life changing injury......... that is all.
I still stand strong on the fact that ANY rider should stop and check a drop such as this before going over it the first time of the day......... The reasons for checking are.... erosion, changes since your last visit, downed rider........ Its a blind drop, that by desription is a 100% commit once you are able to see the landing....... the byproduct of those actions would end up catching the fact someone else ****ed up and stacked the branches there in a ****ty manor
Dude, come on DirtyMike. I know you're on your high horse cause you had a buddy and whatever, but do you seriously advocate scoping out the landing to each drop every run, every time you ride? Downed rider? Are you for real? It's completely reasonable to expect an open trail to be open and clear. If there's a downed rider, then his friend should put a bike or get to the top of the drop to prevent people from coming over it. You shouldn't ride DH alone.
The item in question is who opened the trail, but more importantly than that, why diablo thinks that an injured rider isn't worth speaking with on a personal level. That's ****ed up.
The item in question is who opened the trail, but more importantly than that, why diablo thinks that an injured rider isn't worth speaking with on a personal level. That's ****ed up.
While this is true for riding on your own trails / public parks / etc, there is NO reason to have to do this at a park where you pay $40 for a lift ticket and (supposedly) maintained trails. There's 44 trails at Diablo, and probably 20+ stunts / features that you're claiming I should inspect first every day I ride them. Seriously? That's not what I spend money on a lift ticket for. I pay money so I don't HAVE to stop, leave the bike, hike down, inspect something, hike back up and ride the line. If I am going to end up hiking all over the place checking out stunts beforehand, I would have just gone to Trumbull and saved myself the $40 (plus $15 in tolls, plus food, plus gas, etc).
What you're saying is true for riding someplace other than a DH park. There's NO way it's true for riding (or skiing, or boarding, or whatever) at a place that's taking your money so that they can maintain the trails for you.
Some of those 'trails' are less than 35 feet long....how long would it take to inspect them...?
And some of them run the length of the mountain, what's your point?
I think you are mixing 2 different concepts: personal responsibility (being aware of conditions) vs. gross negligence (not clearing the landing area, closing the trail, and/or alerting riders) [unclear based on evidence]. Like others have said, what you wrote apply more to local trails rather than a well-run bike park.
lolz.
Ahhh - derail it may be, but - these are SECTIONS of a trail.
Of course it's my opinion, but looks like it jibes with at least one other person. When its posted that there are 44 trails, Im expecting 44 top to bottom routes, not 'chute de satchum' (Which might as well not be there much as the boring drop in question....Anthem - which is a feature not a trail.)
Ultimately moot since we know thats the case, but its the norm in snow and bike parks, so w/e....
Just an FYI, all the "small" trails are gone or lose their "trail" status. The shortest trail up there right now is test of metal, or pipeline, both of which i would say can be called a trail.
My whole point was that it would probably take until the early afternoon to ride every trail at least once. If I stopped and checked out every single trail and every single feature every single day before hitting it at speed, by the time I was done the lift would have closed for the day and I'd have to start the whole process over again the next day.
let's now play "fun with editing"