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Diablo ski trails growing and bike trails shrinking

Fall Guy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
60
0
They keep widening the ski trails and we keep loosing more bike trails every year. First it was the drop on Twist a few years ago, this year the flume drop and the bit of trail leading up to it. Now Dom's denial is closed and there were other trails that were closed by Diablo like morning wood and part of waterboy because of the down tree. I like all the new stuff at the top of the mountain like pipe line but it gets kind of boring taking Alpine and Indy X all the time. I sthere even any more land where they could build more lower trails even if they came down closer to the Dairy Queen side or on the other side of the water park by the triple lift that is right near the road?
 

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen
You can always take lower ripper to get to the bottom. But the fact is that the way the mountain is shaped sort of requires a trail network structure that funnels down to the lift. I don't think I'd want to come down on the other side of the waterpark and then have to trek back over to the lift.

Besides, there are a TON of runs you can do off the other side of the mountain that all feed into the 2nd half of crap chute, and from there into either IndyX or Lower Ripper.

I think the upper half of crap chute being closed is just a temporary thing, while they fix that area where that old haggard bridge was located. Maybe they'll put another line in there.

Or maybe they'll build a huge gap jump where the bridge used to be, haha.
 

Fall Guy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
60
0
But the fact is that the way the mountain is shaped sort of requires a trail network structure that funnels down to the lift. I don't think I'd want to come down on the other side of the waterpark and then have to trek back over to the lift.
Yea, but if it meant new lower trails I would ride the 100yards to get back to the lift. Besides, have you ever noticed the terrain over on that side during the winter. It looks like there would be a ton of natural drops.
 

rollertoaster

Monkey
Aug 7, 2007
729
174
Douglassville , PA
Lets face, it Diablo is only about making money. They build a couple features at the beginning of every season to get people interested and then they let everything deteriorate for the rest of the season. As long as people keep going there and they aren't losing customer base it will continue in this manner.
 

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen
Well, to be fair, epitaph was cut sort of in the middle of the season ans they've been doing some trailwork over the last couple of weeks.

I'll agree that it doesn't feel like they're as active with building/maintenance as other parks, but I don't know if that's just because I ride at diablo more than any other place. But it seems like they're always up to something when I'm at platty, even though I've only been there a handful of times this season.
 

Fall Guy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
60
0
Lets face, it Diablo is only about making money. They build a couple features at the beginning of every season to get people interested and then they let everything deteriorate for the rest of the season. As long as people keep going there and they aren't losing customer base it will continue in this manner.

That wasn't really my point. Its not Diablo who owns the mountain and keeps widening the ski trails and taking away the terrain so this wasn't meant to be a Diablo bash. But they do need to do something about offering some other trails to the bottom even if they dont end 20 feet from the gondola.

P.S. Most businesses are in it to make money.
 

rollertoaster

Monkey
Aug 7, 2007
729
174
Douglassville , PA
I agree but, in order to CONTINUE making money they need to keep building. New trails= expanding your customer base, and keeping current customers. A lot of people get sick of riding the same 2 trails to the bottom.
 

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen
It might not work that way for Diablo. Their location is a major factor in their favor. I live an hour from Diablo, next closest park is now Blue Mountain (2 hours away) and after that it's platty (3 hours). I LOVE the riding at platty but 3 hours each way isn't feasible, and I rarely have a weekend where I'm just free to ride both days.

Location-wise the same is true for any riders from the city or Long island or eastern/central/southern jersey. Usually market forces would force diablo to step their game up, and it MIGHT end up happening but I think it'll take quite a while, unless Diablo does something actively to alienate the riders.
 

sundaydoug

Monkey
Jun 8, 2009
374
63
I agree but, in order to CONTINUE making money they need to keep building. New trails= expanding your customer base, and keeping current customers. A lot of people get sick of riding the same 2 trails to the bottom.
Why don't you e-mail Diablo and tell them how to expand their customer base. I'm sure they'd love to hear your thoughts.
 

rollertoaster

Monkey
Aug 7, 2007
729
174
Douglassville , PA
Why don't you e-mail Diablo and tell them how to expand their customer base. I'm sure they'd love to hear your thoughts.
There are plenty of other great mountains to ride on the east coast. I don't mind driving and camping, so there are plenty of mountains with in range. Blue is only 1.5hrs tops for me.

They'll figure it out on there own sooner or later.
 

jbro

Chimp
Apr 13, 2007
68
0
I guess if you can ride all the stunts @ diablo without a problem i can see the place getting boring for you. I am @ the level where these stunts are way too intimidating so i am satisfied with the trail system there, I hit a few of the man made drops and a few naturals but other than that i work on getting faster and rock gardens. I see alot of people head towards dominion/greenhorn instead of exodus/tempest, from greenhorn your trails to the bottom are limited. Any trail from that side of the mountain will funnel you to domboo/alpine or the fireroad and that does get repetitive.

diablo is 2 hrs from my house and its open 7 days a week with hours into the evening, Perfect for me. i will always go to diablo just for those reasons i mentioned.

But since diablo reps might be reading, how about a big hip jump before the sram berm and build a jump line right under the lift to meet up with lower alpine. Also, build a jump over the fence into the cannoball pools.
 

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen
Every run from the exodus side of the mountain funnels you into crap chute, so it's the same thing, you're limited to either indyX or lower ripper to get to the bottom.

If they could leave the end of the race course from this past weekend open all the time I would barely ever ride the greenhorn side of the mountain.
 

sundaydoug

Monkey
Jun 8, 2009
374
63
If they could leave the end of the race course from this past weekend open all the time I would barely ever ride the greenhorn side of the mountain.
Yea that's a fun section. I'm pretty sure they keep it closed because they like to keep something special for race days. I bet it would also get eroded quickly if it was always open just like Frog Pond does.

I also like the idea of building a huge jump over the waterpark fence into the tarzan-swing pools. Every really hot day going up on the lift I think about how awesome that would be. It would also double as a bike wash!
 

Fall Guy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
60
0
Usually market forces would force diablo to step their game up, and it MIGHT end up happening but I think it'll take quite a while, unless Diablo does something actively to alienate the riders.
Well I ride with 2 other riders and since they have opened as Diablo 5 or 6 years ago we all bought season passes every year since then. This year none of us bought season passes because we don't want to be locked in to Diablo. There times where I stay home just to mow the lawn and take care of the house where in the past I would have squeezed those chores in during the week just to make out for the weekend.

There is some nice stuff happening here and there like pipeline but like I said above, too many things being taken away subtract from the good things. I don't care what kind of trails they build because I like variety but just give us some more options to get down the lower half of the mountain.
 
May 23, 2007
168
0
Stamford, CT
I thought we weren't allowed to talk about Diablo anymore on ridemonkey... lol...

Anyways, I still think there are plenty of lines. As long as Diablo isn't your weekend getaway, you'll agree with me that the $37 bucks and the 1.5 hour drive is worth it. I've, sadly, only been there 3 times this year, my lowest season so far.
 

Fall Guy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
60
0
I thought we weren't allowed to talk about Diablo anymore on ridemonkey... lol...

Anyways, I still think there are plenty of lines. As long as Diablo isn't your weekend getaway, you'll agree with me that the $37 bucks and the 1.5 hour drive is worth it. I've, sadly, only been there 3 times this year, my lowest season so far.
Well if your only there 3 times in one season 1 trail might be enough. I'm usually there about 30 times a season. There's no complaint about price, convenience or the hard work that went into building what we have now.
 
to revive this.........

Wow! WHat happened to Crap Chute? and that step up?
ANd the top of DOm's?

I understand that ski season was looming upon us.........but to take away trails from MTB'ers before the season is even over is just ridiculous.........sorry!

ANd was Frog Pond ever open this year?

So what's going to happen next year? Are they gooing to totally get rid of the trail crew and leave it as it is?
I understand they put a lot of work into Pipeline and Covenant...........but it seems the rest of the mountain got neglected a little with real trail work( I did see them out there clearing drains and doing blown down removal..but is that enough?

I'm a casual rider who is happy to have a place relatively close to home with a large variance in riding terrain...........but people who go here 30 or 40 times a season aren't gonna want to come back.............it seems.


Flame on!!
 

Fall Guy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
60
0
me and one of my buddies road the last day and Sunday and as we were loading up our trucks we were talking about selling our downhill bikes and either buying hangliders or ultralites because the mountain is a mess. I cant even name all the trails that are gone and others we don't take because the bottom portion empties into a ski trail that you have to ride half the way down. At the rate ski trails are widening and bike trails and features are being removed there will be no trees on the bottom part of the mountain in 5-10 years.
 

mtnbiker49

Monkey
Jul 12, 2009
242
0
Milford, PA
well, they must do something to revive the step-up since the US Open course goes through there most of the time. So very dumb though about all the other trails that they have blocked off on the left side of the mountain. I don't know why they have that jump below doms denial closed and just opened for the us open and a few trails inbetween. plus, there is one bridge by monarch i believe that is all twisted and they don't have tape there or anything.

i really hope that they get their act together and maybe hire more trail crew.
i would rather that they maintained these trails instead of building another small trail and forgetting about the others.
 

rollertoaster

Monkey
Aug 7, 2007
729
174
Douglassville , PA
I can't even fathom the amount of neglect that is happening there lately. There is like 2 ways to get to the bottom now and that gets old. Why couldn't they at least wait another week or two to wreck that step-up?! I'll be keeping my Diablo riding to a minimum from now on, unless things change dramatically. Thankfully I now have Blue Mt to ride and it's only an hour away from me.
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
456
6
Tend to agree. I'm sure that the Diablo guys have very little pull as far as the ski construction stuff goes, but it's getting a bit ridiculous. Not to mention riding through a partially open construction zone. Had to stop Sunday to let a backhoe drive by. Some guys a few weeks ago were reporting that construction equipment was causing boulders to go rolling across the trail they were riding. Fortunately nobody was injured (can you say "lawsuit"?).

I will probably buy my season pass again next year, but I'm hoping that they step up their game a bit. It's such a small group of people that ultimately rides there and supports the place. Maybe the place is profitable as it's being run now, but we'll see how things go for the next couple of years...
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
Just a list of trails that got forgotten/closed this year and last year. (see if anybody remembers these trails)
1. Avalanche (now reality check/devient)
2. Mornin wood (it sucked though)
3. Deliverence (was SICK)
4. Evil Bob
5. Frog pond (races only)
6. Fat lip (not closed but not cleared)
7. Utah drop
8. Original waterboy (a ****ing tree, really, cut the damn tree!)
9. the 3 options for flume drop
10. Step up and USO Steeps
11. The cheese wedges (although the trail is still there)

Here is what we got.
1. Pipeline
2. greenhorn
3. salvation
4. covenent
5 DAS wall (dont like it though)
6. middle dominion
7. ego trip

I wont rant on about the lack of maintence because that has already been said, i will add that diablo really SHOULD fix the trails because there have been plenty of times i have moved loose rocks and tree branches, nd i feel that ive done more during season work than the trail crew.

PS what ever happened to the piss our pants so hard "revelation"
 

spylab

Monkey
Feb 7, 2007
275
0
I will probably buy my season pass again next year, but I'm hoping that they step up their game a bit. It's such a small group of people that ultimately rides there and supports the place. Maybe the place is profitable as it's being run now, but we'll see how things go for the next couple of years...

My sentiment exactly.

My buddies and I renewed our season passes for 2010, partially because of the proximity to home, but at least for me a large part is due to the fact that 2009 was the first season we (the riding community in general) collectively noticed a considerable amount of red flags with trail removals, poor maintenance, as well as a general separation of direct interaction between park and riders (in the past, you could not only voice your opinion on a Diablo-specific forum, but also hear justifications right from the horse's mouth as to why things were being changed or what was being added). If the decline in park quality was a few years running, the story'd be different, but I am optimistic that they can clean up their act next year.

2010 is a pivotal year for the park, I think. If they continue to show the general disregard reflected throughout this season, not only will I stop renewing my season pass, but I think that a huge portion of the pass holders will do the same. Despite backing out of online communications with their riders, hopefully Diablo's eyes and ears are open and huge changes are planned for next year...
 
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Fall Guy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
60
0
I wont rant on about the lack of maintence because that has already been said, i will add that diablo really SHOULD fix the trails because there have been plenty of times i have moved loose rocks and tree branches, nd i feel that ive done more during season work than the trail crew.
Last week I was ready to hit stigmata and as I was rolling in I noticed a branch was hanging down in the middle of run. If if saw it 1/10th a second later I would be in a serious world of hurt.

But again, my problem isn't that the trail crews don't do enough work because its always been the case that they work on new trails in the beginning of the year and maintain what they have for the rest of the year and for the most part, they have seemed to keep the place running.
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
456
6
Here is what we got.
1. Pipeline
2. greenhorn
3. salvation
4. covenent
5 DAS wall (dont like it though)
6. middle dominion
7. ego trip
Also deviant and reality show though I never see anyone on reality show and the changes to the end of alpine. And some of the end of dirt merchant (I think...never can quite figure out all of the options in that area) has been closed forever.
 

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen
PS what ever happened to the piss our pants so hard "revelation"
I think at some point the "revelation" trail got switched to Epitaph (which you left off your list, btw, and is my favorite new addition to the mountain).

well, they must do something to revive the step-up since the US Open course goes through there most of the time. So very dumb though about all the other trails that they have blocked off on the left side of the mountain. I don't know why they have that jump below doms denial closed and just opened for the us open and a few trails inbetween.
The step up was only installed last year, so the US Open hasn't gone through there "most of the time" but yeah, they're going to have to put up something interesting in its place. Chances are, when they do build it, we won't be able to ride it on a regular basis, since they'll want to keep it pristine for the Open. The jump and berm after dom's denial are roped off most of the season for the same reason, same deal with frogpond, though that's more for the Diablo race series.

I do sort of think that it's hurt Diablo a little bit to not really have a web presence at all. Even though the park has moved to Pinkbike as a sponsor, they don't have a forum over there, just a photo album and advertising. Their twitter is also purely a promotional tool as well, and doesn't really have anything to do with interacting with their customers. I know a few of the mechanics/staff there do post on this forum, but they usually don't represent the park when they do so.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
488
Im over here now
read me



fyi to anyone riding next year.

there is a person riding a old Tomac 204 w/ a old White Brothers DHsomethingoranother fork who is a dangerous person.
keep you kids away from this person and let him know that he is not welcome to the park
 
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mtnbiker49

Monkey
Jul 12, 2009
242
0
Milford, PA
This is crazy talk on a hundred and one levels.
I misspoke. I want to talk to the people in charge of the summer mountain (parklogic i believe) and explain to them what the riders are looking for and about the trail conditions and closures. I think that is better.
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
456
6
The step up was only installed last year, so the US Open hasn't gone through there "most of the time" but yeah, they're going to have to put up something interesting in its place. Chances are, when they do build it, we won't be able to ride it on a regular basis, since they'll want to keep it pristine for the Open. The jump and berm after dom's denial are roped off most of the season for the same reason, same deal with frogpond, though that's more for the Diablo race series.

I do sort of think that it's hurt Diablo a little bit to not really have a web presence at all. Even though the park has moved to Pinkbike as a sponsor, they don't have a forum over there, just a photo album and advertising. Their twitter is also purely a promotional tool as well, and doesn't really have anything to do with interacting with their customers. I know a few of the mechanics/staff there do post on this forum, but they usually don't represent the park when they do so.
Right, so options at the bottom are now (well, were) riding through a construction site to get to the area by Dom's with the roped off drop. Then from there there's either the Indycross or the brief section of trail that used to lead to the Flume drop, which is now non-existent. And if that doesn't strike your fancy, there's the fire road at the bottom of Alpine. Um...fun?

Remember how cool that section was over by the Flume drop when they opened it and there was the little rock drop?

I will never criticize Diablo for only being in it to "make money". They are a business. But I really do question whether or not they will continue to make money with this approach.
 

mtnbiker49

Monkey
Jul 12, 2009
242
0
Milford, PA
I will see if they would be willing to make a landing for the flume drop. It really is as easy as that to give us another route down (sorta).

Since when has Doms Denial been closed? Wasnt on saturday.
 

spylab

Monkey
Feb 7, 2007
275
0
Just something to keep in mind before anyone gets too out of hand:

I can pretty much guarantee that it was not in Diablo's business plan to "lose" Flume Drop or Crap Chute. In fact, heard from Shawn O today and I can tell that they were pretty gutted about losing this stuff. The main peak is not "shared ownership" by any stretch; Intrawest (Mountain Creek) owns the mountain, and Diablo (Park Logic) only leases its use during summer months. If Intrawest says "we gotta rip out the bridge for this ski season, but your Crap Chute trail's coming with it," there is not much recourse for the Diablo crew.

I am not speaking hypocritically per my previous post; I am still underwhelmed with the trail maintenance throughout the 2009 season, and the removal of trails like Evil Bob and Deliverance are pretty uncalled for, but I would say it's unfair to point fingers at Diablo for the demolition of the Flume and Crap Chute areas, since they had no control over Intrawest's decisions to help improve their ski seasons.

It all comes down to Diablo management really getting their act together and thinking of creative ways to use the new terrain sculpture, as well as to formulate a better plan to sustain the entire trail network over the course of the year. Perhaps it's just a matter of hiring a bunch of new, experienced staff members and keep trail maintenance as a constant...as much as a trail closure during the day would suck (keeping in mind that they used to do this all the time a couple years ago), think of the payoff of being able to ride a leaf-free Monarch or a braking bump-less Alpine in July, August, September, etc.. It might chew a little from their profits to pay a larger, experienced trail crew, but word of mouth is infectious in this sport, and finding out that the trails were constantly cared for would draw in a lot more people than building a couple rock-less trails and try to get some fresh meat on the mountain.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
^ agree completely, i do not understand how they couldnt open flume drop though, i mean, we could have ridden it how it sits, sure its a 5 degree hip, but why not, why not throw another 6 inches of dirt at the bottom-we ride stigmata, couldnt untape flume drop!
 

sundaydoug

Monkey
Jun 8, 2009
374
63
the removal of trails like Evil Bob and Deliverance are pretty uncalled for
It's not like they went anywhere. We rode Evil Bob a bunch of times towards the end of the season.

My "guess" as to the reasoning behind any closed trail(s) on the mountain is either erosion concern or Dom Series/US Open exclusivity. It isn't to piss people off.
 
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acair422

Monkey
Aug 20, 2003
552
2
For the record...nearly two thirds of the trail crew were out most of the season with broken/dislocated wrists so hopefully next year they can stay healthy and put in some serious work...i'd really like to see a simple pure beginner DH trail, just smooth dirt, nothing to steep etc i think this will help get complete beginners into the sport (people who **** bricks looking at alpine) thus with them off alpine, there should be less breaking bumps and a larger amt. of riders renting bikes and tryin to get into the sport which is where the real $$ is...i'm really hoping we're all sitting here in the middle of april discussing some crazy new **** diablo just built...i know they got some major things planned...lets see if they execute
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
456
6
I will see if they would be willing to make a landing for the flume drop. It really is as easy as that to give us another route down (sorta).

Since when has Doms Denial been closed? Wasnt on saturday.
No, just referring to the smaller waterbar drop after Dom's.