[Toshi]

One thing that I have been wondering is why aren't the other candidates in debates with the major leading candidates, why are they just pushed aside? If this were a fair election process, each candidate would have a debate against the rest of them, and touch on all topics at once. Instead we have three debates between the same two guys, who are both not totally believeable in what they say. I think that if my idea for debates actually happened, the election would probably be a lot different in it's conclusion.

that's one of the major controversies. it's a chicken and egg problem: the debate commission won't allow 3rd party (usuing the term generally) candidates to debate because they command a tiny slice of votes, but they can't gain widespread approval until they gain exposure through debates and the like.

on this subject this is interesting: http://badnarik.org/newsfromthetrail.php?p=1346 . badnarik (libertarian) and cobb (green) were arrested when trying to enter the debate venue last night to serve an "order to show cause" to the commission on presidential debates...

 

[Changleen]

Land o' the free...

 

[ummbikes]

on this subject this is interesting: http://badnarik.org/newsfromthetrail.php?p=1346 . badnarik (libertarian) and cobb (green) were arrested when trying to enter the debate venue last night to serve an "order to show cause" to the commission on presidential debates...

A little bit of grandstanding eh? I read that the papers were able to be served the next day. As they say, "there is no such thing as bad publicity."

 

[genpowell71]

Cheney has been caught in too many fibs and has contradicted himself too many times for me to believe any numbers that spew from his mouth.

Funny we can say the same thing about Kerry AND Edwards can twe?

 

[narlus]

the two dominant political parties have too much invested to allow other parties. one can argue that congress gets more done w/ just two parties (less inertia), but it'd be nice to have alternate views represented as well.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Toshi,
Quit trying to push that nutsack Nader on young Dwaugh. The man is not honest, he's just trying to sell books.

 

[dwaugh]

I dont mind. All I'm saying is that I dont want either of the major candidates. Also, I dont like how people say a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush, a vote for nader is a vote for nader. If you get enough pennies you can make a dollar, if he, or one of the other lesser known candidates got enough votes, they could overcome in the end. I'd say that the way the elections go, it is not very fair.

Yeah, land of the free, ruled by the rich, and those who get the most money for their campaign. Then all they have to do is drill enough promises into our heads that most people will believe what they say, many of those promises being empty in reality.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Yeah, land of the free, ruled by the rich, and those who get the most money for their campaign. Then all they have to do is drill enough promises into our heads that most people will believe what they say, many of those promises being empty in reality.

Holy ****, one Link to a nader site and you come out talking like Changleen. Listen dude, there's a reason that tools like Nader only get 1% of the votes. He wants such drastic changes that the vast vast majority just dont agree with. Anyone SERIOUS about politics has heard of nader and has a basic understanding of what he stands for. IMO, he's no more genuine that John Kerry or GWB. So anyway, go ahead and vote for Nader if you like, but you're basically just taking yourself out of politics altogether when you do, because he has NO chance of winning. And if you vote for Nader instead of Kerry, good I say, thats on less GWB has to make up for. BUT Im just a fundamentalist conservative, so dont listen to me, but you'll see as most people do that being so far out of the mainstream in politics just turns pointless and makes you bitter.

 

[Skookum]

I dont mind. All I'm saying is that I dont want either of the major candidates. Also, I dont like how people say a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush, a vote for nader is a vote for nader. If you get enough pennies you can make a dollar, if he, or one of the other lesser known candidates got enough votes, they could overcome in the end. I'd say that the way the elections go, it is not very fair.

Yeah, land of the free, ruled by the rich, and those who get the most money for their campaign. Then all they have to do is drill enough promises into our heads that most people will believe what they say, many of those promises being empty in reality.

Popularity will probably be the only way a third party could get their person in office. But even then the odds are heavily stacked against them. Theodore Roosevelt broke from the Republican Party to run on the Progressive Party ticket, but he utimately lost. Interesting guy if you haven't studied him you should give him a look.
But it's a sad mess America is in with special interest footing the bill for both major parties. And your right, both parties run on platforms of major issue they really have no intention of making drastic changes to, otherwise what will get them re-elected for the next term? Which is why i fear terrorism may be around to stay for many generations. And how is a third party candidate going to make it through the electoral college? It really is interesting our national perception of democracy, and what it is we really have.
Still there are good persons in both parties, although sparse they may be in your view and ideals, voting in people then holding them accountable through your vote is the only power the average joe has, but it's still a powerful tool.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Land o' the free...

or in your case...


Land ' the sheep...


baaaaaaa

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

such leaders are out there. you won't find them in the leading ranks of the republicans or democrats, however.

www.lp.org
www.greenparty.org
www.votenader.org

of course they will never figure out with the current voters, since truth is a political suicide.

but i dont think jumping out of the bipartisan system would offer any advantage on realistic grounds.

like if it was a system on which "fresh" people could just jump into presidency of the US. that would open the door for oportunistic well-spoken not-ready charismatic people without any defined nor known ideology to jump into the presidency train by basically a good campaign.

i mean, its bad to have only 2 parties as the bouncers of the joint, but it would be worse to open it for anybody. at least a party system creates some sort of restriction or drag for a candidate to obbey certain parameters somewhat known for most people, rather than a fresh face to get elected on a good campaign, and having the risk of him

and IMO, "fresh" politicians who jump into high ranks usually fare worse than average.

i dont think the solution for the problem (or the problem itself) is on the party system. i think its on the voters themselves.

a true democracy imo should be that in which all people have access to information, and are politically mature enough, and have the knowledge tools to analyze and accept or refute them on better grounds than appeal to the massses, or faith (lots of people vote for a president by "faith", or because they "trust" X guy more). that would be the best for democracies to counter the effect of the candidate marketing.

but agaisnt the trends in the 1st world, a guy like bush can get elected (something that truly amazes me). GWB, an extremist president more likely to belong to banana-republics infant-state democracies.
a guy who would have virtually no chance on other industrialized nations, get his kicks in the US like there is no tomorrow.

 

[Skookum]

of course they will never figure out with the current voters, since truth is a political suicide.

but i dont think jumping out of the bipartisan system would offer any advantage on realistic grounds.

Right......
and wrong.

Maybe a third party will never get their man in office, but the vote will let the party that gets effected by your lack of a vote a strong message on what you want for the country.

 

[Changleen]

Right......
and wrong.

Maybe a third party will never get their man in office, but the vote will let the party that gets effected by your lack of a vote a strong message on what you want for the country.

I wish... I mean, I hope so, anyway...

 

[dwaugh]

Holy ****, one Link to a nader site and you come out talking like Changleen. Listen dude, there's a reason that tools like Nader only get 1% of the votes. He wants such drastic changes that the vast vast majority just dont agree with. Anyone SERIOUS about politics has heard of nader and has a basic understanding of what he stands for. IMO, he's no more genuine that John Kerry or GWB. So anyway, go ahead and vote for Nader if you like, but you're basically just taking yourself out of politics altogether when you do, because he has NO chance of winning. And if you vote for Nader instead of Kerry, good I say, thats on less GWB has to make up for. BUT Im just a fundamentalist conservative, so dont listen to me, but you'll see as most people do that being so far out of the mainstream in politics just turns pointless and makes you bitter.

I didn't go to the nader site.

 

[genpowell71]

Here's a gruesome thought:

President Hillary Clinton, and first lady Bill

 

[valve bouncer]

Here's a gruesome thought:

President Hillary Clinton, and first lady Bill

So if getting ya mates in power is cronyism and getting ya rellies in power is nepotism what is getting ya old girl in power? Stoshism?

 

[Skookum]

So if getting ya mates in power is cronyism and getting ya rellies in power is nepotism what is getting ya old girl in power? Stoshism?

haha i love drunken posts.

 

[valve bouncer]

haha i love drunken posts.

OK ya smart arse...what am I drinking?

 

[Skookum]

I wish... I mean, I hope so, anyway...

Michael Moore sitting with Jimmy Carter at the Democratic Convention is one example of sending a message to their constituents. Now it's a different ballgame if Kerry get's into office if he applies any of those ideals, but there is now an implied assumption that he will, and voters who may have switched from more leftist candidate will hold him under more scrutiny. Make a president work perhaps vs. people from Bushy land, just resigned to the fact that the president can do no wrong. At least that's the ideal....

 

[Skookum]

OK ya smart arse...what am I drinking?

i dunno really but i imagine it's not Hawaiin Punch.

 

[genpowell71]

So if getting ya mates in power is cronyism and getting ya rellies in power is nepotism what is getting ya old girl in power? Stoshism?

I'm sorry, can I get a translation from wanker to english please?

 

[valve bouncer]

I'm sorry, can I get a translation from wanker to english please?

Hey ya drongo it's not my fault ya can't understand fair dinkum strine.

 

[MikeD]

Hey ya drongo it's not my fault ya can't understand fair dinkum strine.

Stand back.

Powell, you do know that VB is a waiter at the Outback Steakhouse in Osaka, don'tcha? He knows his sh1t.

Check out that flair!!

MD

 

[biggins]

hmmm, has anyone seen my weapons of mass destruction? i cant seem to find them. my friends georege and dick looked for them and they couldnt find them either.

 

[valve bouncer]

Stand back.

Powell, you do know that VB is a waiter at the Outback Steakhouse in Osaka, don'tcha? He knows his sh1t.

Check out that flair!!

MD

Don't droll, I'm human

 

[genpowell71]

DOnt give bouncer any crap. The servers there, if they're any good, usually make some pretty good bank. Besides I bet he's a secret agent for applebee's

 

[MikeD]

You wouldn't believe the tips he gets when he does the 'aussie bannana trick.' The 50+ crowd loves it.

MD

 

[valve bouncer]

DOnt give bouncer any crap. The servers there, if they're any good, usually make some pretty good bank. Besides I bet he's a secret agent for applebee's

The dirty sluts always make up for lack of bank.

 

[MikeD]

The dirty sluts always make up for lack of bank.

What's this I hear about you being banned from the meat locker?

 

[valve bouncer]

What's this I hear about you being banned from the meat locker?

I demand to know the contents of your and partsbara's PM file. Pervert.

 

[genpowell71]

The dirty sluts always make up for lack of bank.

Aint it true