[3D.]

I heard from a reliable source, that the U.S. quietly declared war on Iran last month. Is this true? I know it's been brewing for quite some time now; but are we really starting to engage in military threats? I was searching for some substance, couldn't find much, except for this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/05/AR2006040500561.html

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I heard from a reliable source, that the U.S. quietly declared war on Iran last month. Is this true? I know it's been brewing for quite some time now; but are we really starting to engage in military threats? I was searching for some substance, couldn't find much, except for this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/05/AR2006040500561.html

It wouldn't surprise me if we had operatives in there laying the ground work, and the rhetoric sounds eerily familiar, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that we have declared war on Iran yet.

 

[DaveW]

Yeah but the bush/blair memos showed that he decided the date to go to war with sadam a long time (more than a year I think?) before the official kickoff!

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Yeah but the bush/blair memos showed that he decided the date to go to war with sadam a long time (more than a year I think?) before the official kickoff!

I was considering the decision to go to war versus to be a separate thing from a declaration of war. It's entirely true that the admin. may have already decided on war with Iran just as they did with Iraq. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[DaveW]

Well as a general rule of thumb they both end up as full blown war so I class them the same.

 

[MudGrrl]

it wouldn't surprise me if we went in today (except for the fact that we lack manpower)

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

I was considering the decision to go to war versus to be a separate thing from a declaration of war. It's entirely true that the admin. may have already decided on war with Iran just as they did with Iraq. It wouldn't surprise me.

for a war like that. i´d guess they make the decision very in advance.

its like when i played civilization 3 and i had to invade another civilization for oil, but was stuck in a mud-war with another with lots of unhappy citizens, so i couldnt go to war without risking a revolution----... i wonder how that feels in the real world.

only the people die for real when W plays... plus he cannot save and reload if anything goes bad.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Im going to go ahead and say "NO" we havent declared war on Iran. No way, no how. Congress cant agree on **** let alone come to a mutual decision that ANOTHER war would be in anyone's best interests.
Not only that, but do you know the last time we declared war?

 

[The Amish]

GEorge declared war on Iran years ago. Remember the axis of evil speach. Its all coming full circle

 

[N8 v2.0]

Also we have declared war on Poverty, Drugs, Illicit Drugs, Hunger, AIDs, Prostitution etc...

 

[3D.]

Also we have declared war on Poverty, Drugs, Illicit Drugs, Hunger, AIDs, Prostitution etc...

I don’t think those are proper analogies to use when relating to the activities that we are currently involved in with the Middle East (need not explain).

Apparently Baby Bush called for an Executive Order 13292 (declaration of war) on March 16th, 2006. This is kind of how it was done in the good old days only with a twist; historically, Congress used to declare war, and direct the Executive to take action. In the current day of the ongoing ‘Bush Family Presidential Dictatorship”, the Executive calls all the shots, and then makes Congress scramble to make sense of it.

So BurleyShirley, it doesn't matter that Congress can't make sound decisions anymore, we have our fearless leader to do it for them!

The Executive apparently declared war last March 16th, now Congress will pass H.R. 282, “To hold the current regime in Iran accountable for its threatening behavior and to support a transition to democracy”.

I’m not a war expert or anything, but this looks like No joke!

 

[N8 v2.0]

I don’t think those are proper analogies to use when relating to the activities that we are currently involved in with the Middle East (need not explain).

Apparently Baby Bush called for an Executive Order 13292 (declaration of war) on March 16th, 2006. This is kind of how it was done in the good old days only with a twist; historically, Congress used to declare war, and direct the Executive to take action. In the current day of the ongoing ‘Bush Family Presidential Dictatorship”, the Executive calls all the shots, and then makes Congress scramble to make sense of it.

So BurleyShirley, it doesn't matter that Congress can't make sound decisions anymore, we have our fearless leader to do it for them!

The Executive apparently declared war last March 16th, now Congress will pass H.R. 282, “To hold the current regime in Iran accountable for its threatening behavior and to support a transition to democracy”.

I’m not a war expert or anything, but this looks like No joke!

OMFG!!!!!11111111111111

 

[BurlyShirley]

So BurleyShirley, it doesn't matter that Congress can't make sound decisions anymore, we have our fearless leader to do it for them!

The Executive apparently declared war last March 16th, now Congress will pass H.R. 282, “To hold the current regime in Iran accountable for its threatening behavior and to support a transition to democracy”.

I’m not a war expert or anything, but this looks like No joke!

No guy. The point is that it takes an act of congress to declare war. The president cant do it. He can only commit troops for 90 days. Again CONGRESS must declare war. NO WAR HAS BEEN DECLARED.

 

[Westy]

A declaration of war is useless anyway. How many wars have we been in since we last declared war? War isn't a piece of paper, it is people shooting at each other.

 

[BurlyShirley]

A declaration of war is useless anyway. How many wars have we been in since we last declared war? War isn't a piece of paper, it is people shooting at each other.

I agree, but this guy is harping on about declaring a war. Which we didnt.
What was the last actual war? WWII or did we declare war on Korea? I forget that crap.

 

[LordOpie]

its like when i played civilization 3 and i had to invade another civilization for oil, but was stuck in a mud-war with another with lots of unhappy citizens, so i couldnt go to war without risking a revolution----...

Sid Meiers for President!

 

[Ciaran]

I agree, but this guy is harping on about declaring a war. Which we didnt.
What was the last actual war? WWII or did we declare war on Korea? I forget that crap.

The last time the US declared war was during WWII during which we declared war against individual countries.

Korea was a UN resolution thing. Authority came from the UN.

Vietnam was not an official war (war was not declared) though military force was authorized by Congress.

The United States has formally declared war 11 times

 

[3D.]

No guy. The point is that it takes an act of congress to declare war. The president cant do it. He can only commit troops for 90 days. Again CONGRESS must declare war. NO WAR HAS BEEN DECLARED.

My name is not “guy”.

BurleyShirley, if you haven’t noticed, we are world famous right now, for allowing are President to perform tactics that are unconstitutional, and further more, actions that are completely against the Geneva Conventions, U.N. guidelines, and the basic rules of engagement during war time.

To examine all the rules that have been broken lately, and then say “The point is that it takes an act of congress to declare war. The president cant do it.”, is being extremely naïve to what this administration is actually capable of.

Congress has proven themselves a “band wagon jumper” in the past few years. They go were their ‘conservative base’ leads them, not were this country wants them to be.

Are you aware of the relationship that Israel has with Iran and we have Israel?

 

[3D.]

I agree, but this guy is harping on about declaring a war. Which we didnt.
What was the last actual war? WWII or did we declare war on Korea? I forget that crap.

Harping I was not. I simply posted a piece of information that I thought someone might be able to elaborate on. So far you have offered NO insight what so ever.

If anyone is "Harping", it is you with your substance-less, defensive statements.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Harping I was not. I simply posted a piece of information that I thought someone might be able to elaborate on. So far you have offered NO insight what so ever.

If anyone is "Harping", it is you with your substance-less, defensive statements.

If you're calling me "defensive" who are you assuming that Im defending? Im no fan of the current administration, but Im also not one of the resident conspiracy theorists either. How can I have insight into something that SIMPLY ISNT TRUE? I told you the steps that must be taken to declar war, and that they havent happened, fella, so what more do you want?
W has only semi-broken the wiretapping rules, and congress is all over his ass for it, you mean to tell me that he DECLARED WAR and congress has nothing to say? Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying that Congress declared war in some secret session somewhere and word has leaked to the point that YOU know about it, but that the REST OF THE WORLD doesnt? Help me, Im confused.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

W has only semi-broken the wiretapping rules, and congress is all over his ass for it, you mean to tell me that he DECLARED WAR and congress has nothing to say?

Putting the "semi-broken" aside, Congress has basically given W a pass on the wiretapping. It was a storm for a short while, but it's since been forgotten. Hell, even the Dems. are dropping it. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's what we've got.

You are right that no formal declaration of war has been made. Of course, none was made in Iraq either, but I don't think you would say that we aren't at war there. I think 3D isn't talking about formal declarations, but what actions the admin has decided on. And, with the way Congress lets W do what he wants, it's a pretty safe bet that if he has decided to go into Iran, we will be going in there at some point.

 

[3D.]

If you're calling me "defensive" who are you assuming that Im defending? Im no fan of the current administration, but Im also not one of the resident conspiracy theorists either. How can I have insight into something that SIMPLY ISNT TRUE? I told you the steps that must be taken to declar war, and that they havent happened, fella, so what more do you want?
W has only semi-broken the wiretapping rules, and congress is all over his ass for it, you mean to tell me that he DECLARED WAR and congress has nothing to say? Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying that Congress declared war in some secret session somewhere and word has leaked to the point that YOU know about it, but that the REST OF THE WORLD doesnt? Help me, Im confused.

The idea of the U.S. going to war with Iran should not be considered a "conspiracy theory", a conspiracy maybe, but there is too much supporting evidence to call it a theory.

I don't want to see this thread turn into a full blown debate, so all I can say is; "time will tell".

 

[BurlyShirley]

I think 3D isn't talking about formal declarations, but what actions the admin has decided o.

That would have been fine, but what he actually said was

Apparently Baby Bush called for an Executive Order 13292 (declaration of war) on March 16th, 2006

...and of course this is simply not true. Im not saying war against Iran isnt possible or probable, Im just saying that no war has been declared in 50 years or so.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

That would have been fine, but what he actually said was...

I went ahead and looked up EO 13292 and I found this:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html

3D, is this what you thought it was? How does it relate to Iran?

 

[3D.]

That would have been fine, but what he actually said was
...and of course this is simply not true. Im not saying war against Iran isnt possible or probable, Im just saying that no war has been declared in 50 years or so.

I can’t reveal the source that which my information has come from, I wish I could. But, if your interested in knowing about the changes Bush has made to the Executive order that is now known as “13292”, read this. Classifying things as “top secret”, appears to be as easy as 1-2-3.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200602160841.asp

 

[3D.]

I went ahead and looked up EO 13292 and I found this:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html

3D, is this what you thought it was? How does it relate to Iran?

Sorry if I was a little unclear on what the 13292 was, but in this case he has used it to keep the declaration under raps.

 

[Ciaran]

I can’t reveal the source that which my information has come from, I wish I could.

Really? Gee, I think I've heard that before... (top left square)

 

[3D.]

Really? Gee, I think I've heard that before... (top left square)

Chuckle.. that‘s some funny sh!t... seriously though, I’m not going to say my source is full-proof, just reliable… and again “time will tell”!

I don’t care for FOX, but they are great for watching planned public exposure to things, (example: the movie “Oil Storm”, and then Katrina) and now Iran:

http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/2006/cavutoiran.320.240.mov

 

[N8 v2.0]

Chuckle.. that‘s some funny sh!t... seriously though, I’m not going to say my source is full-proof, just reliable… and again “time will tell”!

I don’t care for FOX, but they are great for watching planned public exposure to things, (example: the movie “Oil Storm”, and then Katrina) and now Iran:

http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/2006/cavutoiran.320.240.mov

Your source is www.democraticunderground.com ???

 

[Ciaran]

Chuckle.. that‘s some funny sh!t... seriously though, I’m not going to say my source is full-proof, just reliable… and again “time will tell”!

I don’t care for FOX, but they are great for watching planned public exposure to things, (example: the movie “Oil Storm”, and then Katrina) and now Iran:

http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/2006/cavutoiran.320.240.mov

I'm glad you see the humor in it. Too many of us (myself included) get too serious in our discussions.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Sorry if I was a little unclear on what the 13292 was, but in this case he has used it to keep the declaration under raps.

I'm a bit confused. If he has decided to go to war, why does he need to classify documents? Are you saying that there's another Downing St. memo type document around and he changed the classification rules in order to keep it under wraps?

 

[3D.]

This is what the White House was publicly saying, last month, about the potential conflict with Iran:


The White House:
We may face no greater challenge from a single country than from Iran. For almost 20 years, the Iranian regime hid many of its key nuclear efforts from the international community. Yet the regime continues to claim that it does not seek to develop nuclear weapons. The Iranian regime’s true intentions are clearly revealed by the regime’s refusal to negotiate in good faith; its refusal to come into compliance with its international obligations by providing the IAEA access to nuclear sites and resolving troubling questions; and the aggressive statements of its President calling for Israel to “be wiped off the face of the earth.” The United States has joined with our EU partners and Russia to pressure Iran to meet its international obligations and provide objective guarantees that its nuclear program is only for peaceful purposes. This diplomatic effort must succeed if confrontation is to be avoided.

As important as are these nuclear issues, the United States has broader concerns regarding Iran. The Iranian regime sponsors terrorism; threatens Israel; seeks to thwart Middle East peace; disrupts democracy in Iraq; and denies the aspirations of its people for freedom. The nuclear issue and our other concerns can ultimately be resolved only if the Iranian regime makes the strategic decision to change these policies, open up its political system, and afford freedom to its people. This is the ultimate goal of U.S. policy. In the interim, we will continue to take all necessary measures to protect our national and economic security against the adverse effects of their bad conduct. The problems lie with the illicit behavior and dangerous ambition of the Iranian regime, not the legitimate aspirations and interests of the Iranian people. Our strategy is to block the threats posed by the regime while expanding our engagement and outreach to the people the regime is oppressing.



One would wonder if they will comply to avoid the inevitable confrontation… probably not.



This excerpt was taken from this:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss/2006/sectionV.html

 

[BurlyShirley]

This is what the White House was publicly saying, last month, about the potential conflict with Iran:

What else could they possibly say?

"This diplomatic effort must succeed unless Iran decides to keep doing what they're doing, in which case we wont do anything about it. "

That'd be a real effective bargaining chip right there...

 

[3D.]

I'm a bit confused. If he has decided to go to war, why does he need to classify documents? Are you saying that there's another Downing St. memo type document around and he changed the classification rules in order to keep it under wraps?

I'm not sure, maybe it's to be classified until the time is right?

 

[3D.]

What else could they possibly say?

"This diplomatic effort must succeed unless Iran decides to keep doing what they're doing, in which case we wont do anything about it. "

That'd be a real effective bargaining chip right there...

I don't think there is any real bargaining to be done at all.

1. Iran will continue to defy the U.S.
2. The U.S. goes to war.
3. Bush says I warned them. (total disclaimer)

 

[N8 v2.0]

I'm not sure, maybe it's to be classified until the time is right?

..and missles were fired into the WTC on 9/11 as well...!

 

[3D.]

..and missles were fired into the WTC on 9/11 as well...!

Your not starting to "think" again on us, are you?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I'm not sure, maybe it's to be classified until the time is right?

I hear what you are saying, and I see it too. The parallels between the rhetoric on Iran and Iraq are pretty scary. And, I fear you may be right that we are headed towards armed conflict with Iran. It may very well have been decided already in the admin to go ahead and start a war with Iran. But, what we're going on at the moment isn't proof that would stand up in a court of law, unless I missed something.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Your not starting to "think" again on us, are you?

LMAO!
Conversation over.

Late dude...

 

[N8 v2.0]

LMAO!
Conversation over.

Late dude...

Set it up and...

Got em!