[OGRipper]

"I don't give a flying fvck or a rolling donut whether or Marz jumps into the 1.5 thing, but it's interesting (to me) to talk about and discuss the merits or disadvantages of one system over another. If you don't like that kind of discussion, well that's fine and dandy, but you're in the wrong place..."

Amen, Binary.

We don't need comments to the effect that we're just a bunch of bike geeks talking about stuff that isn't really necessary.

We already know that!

 

[azonicbruce]

So we now have 2 32-36 mm legs tugging on a 26mm steerer tube!!!!!!! Who's gonna win in that tugging match?These new forks (170 sc's) are going to allow riders to go huge on them!People are going to be doing full DH/stunt riding w/o even thinking twice about it,since most don't think at all anyway.
Give it a couple more years and 1.5 will take over.

Good question. If going to a bigger steertube has negligible benefits, then why do the new 66s have 35mm stanchions vs. a 32mm stanchion. That required new tooling/dies/etc. right?

Sorry, I just thought I'd throw more stuff for people to :nuts: over.

 

[Jm_]

Good question. If going to a bigger steertube has negligible benefits, then why do the new 66s have 35mm stanchions vs. a 32mm stanchion. That required new tooling/dies/etc. right?

well, not to invalidate your point, but the 35mm stanchions are used by the 888(and shiver). By having 35mm stanchions on the 66, they are really making things easier for themselves...

 

[OGRipper]

"Good question. If going to a bigger steertube has negligible benefits, then why do the new 66s have 35mm stanchions vs. a 32mm stanchion. That required new tooling/dies/etc. right?"

Yes, but different fork tubes don't require a new frame, headset, and stem. Zoke looked at the issue and said that to them, the benefits of 1.5 don't justify creating a new "standard" for the market.

 

[Lefty]

Very nice coverage.. besides what i have seen on mtbr.

 

[Jeremy R]

wonder why my manipoo bushings are holding up to mammoth and northstar poundings? oil change frequency? i know it's not rider skill

Oh, I was just using that as an example. I know people on the original 6" Breakouts that are still pounding away on them with no problems.

It was really stupid for me to drag myself into this argument, considering I only want a 5 inch fork on my trailbike, and a DC fork on my DH race bike.
So, I am arguing over something that does not even relate to me.
I blame it on the espresso, always making me type stuff.

 

[dante]

conspiracy between marzocchi and kona in an effort to define "freeride"!!! Non FSR 4-bars and long travel 1 1/8" forks!! :mumble:

 

[punkassean]

wonder why my manipoo bushings are holding up to mammoth and northstar poundings? oil change frequency? i know it's not rider skill

I think it is hit or miss, mine were sloppy right out of the box. And god knows no one likes a sloppy box...

Aside from the bushings though I love the fork!

 

[frorider]

I think it is hit or miss, mine were sloppy right out of the box. And god knows no one likes a sloppy box...

Aside from the bushings though I love the fork!

and mine were zero slop but plush deluxe on the small bumps. tight but smooth. heh. i wuz a total manitou-hata when i bought the bike that came w/ the sherman but figured hey i can always sell the fork and get a marzocchi once marzocchi comes out w/ a long travel SC fork (which they did, eventually). i was looking to hate the fork or have things break on it but the damn thing is still working, thereby preventing me from having a reason to switch. :angry:

 

[RogerH]

Lower crowns... Expect to see them ready to ship in about a month. The order was just sent to production. Retail will be about $275 for the set.

Brian

Will the new 888 crowns actually lower the axle to crown race height, or are they just made to fit taller head tubes?
Do you know the length of the 8" -05 888's?

I really like my bikes geometry with the Boxxer, but can't wait to get some sweet HSCV damping!

Thanks.
Roger.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Stock, the length of the 888 will remain unchanged. But the crowns will be available for those who feel they need them to lower the ride height of the fork.

Brian

 

[zedro]

Stock, the length of the 888 will remain unchanged. But the crowns will be available for those who feel they need them to lower the ride height of the fork.

Brian

and to think i'd like to make my Shiver longer...

 

[Brian Peterson]

Zedro,
I need that kick in the nuts smiley now.....

Brian

 

[RogerH]

Ok. If I want the lower crowns, will there be a price difference? Or do I have to buy the complete stock fork, and then get the extra crowns?

 

[James | Go-Ride]

I think we need splined, 1.125 steer tubes.

This is totally unrelated to the subject at hand, but since we're already at like 13 pages we might as well create a tangent discussion. Has anybody else thought about the benefits of theaded head tubes and headset cups? DW specifically, the guy that does our machine work mentioned something about this after he ruined a headtube pressing a cup wrong or something to that effect.

 

[dante]

Zedro,
I need that kick in the nuts smiley now.....

Brian

 

[dante]

Zedro,
I need that kick in the nuts smiley now.....

Brian

:nuts:

 

[binary visions]

This is totally unrelated to the subject at hand, but since we're already at like 13 pages we might as well create a tangent discussion. Has anybody else thought about the benefits of theaded head tubes and headset cups? DW specifically, the guy that does our machine work mentioned something about this after he ruined a headtube pressing a cup wrong or something to that effect.

Ahh, the sick irony that people wonder about the benifits of re-introducing threaded headsets

I see the point, but it just doesn't seem worth it. Pressing headsets in isn't that complicated, and I'm sure just as many headtubes would be ruined by cross-threading them as pressing them in wrong. You'd still have to keep the headset tight, and it would actually require a seperate tool rather than being able to torque it all down with an allen wrench.

 

[zedro]

This is totally unrelated to the subject at hand, but since we're already at like 13 pages we might as well create a tangent discussion. Has anybody else thought about the benefits of theaded head tubes and headset cups? DW specifically, the guy that does our machine work mentioned something about this after he ruined a headtube pressing a cup wrong or something to that effect.

i believe this was covered in the splined pedals discussion thread

i say nay!....extra stresses (raisers), loosening....plus, then we'll just get people stripping their headtubes instead

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah because pressing in headset cups with the proper tool is a tricky, tricky gamble..............suited to only the highest level of trained professional.......

 

[Brian Peterson]

That's not it....

 

[buildyourown]

Yeah, the threaded headset interface has been discussed. I don't think any possible benefits would outweigh the problems it would bring create. I don't really see a problem with the current standard as long as people know how to install a headset and don't use equipment outside of its intended use.

 

[Brian Peterson]

:nuts:

That's the one....

Brian

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Fine. Burst my bubble.

 

[RaID]

These 2 quotes i couldnt agree with more

I just don't see what the big argument is all about on this 1.5/1.25 steerer thing. It kind of seems like a small item to be arguing about.
The weight is not a big factor either way, and the stiffness should be fairly close as well. Unless there is a big difference in either weight or stiffness, I don't see the big problem here.
If I was trying to decide between the two, I would be more worried about the internals than anything else. Like fat chicks say, it is what is on the inside that counts.

I do love the 1.5 headtubes for sure.
The added benefit of those is the added crown adjustibility with E13 cups and all that jazz.

i personally would prefer a bit more flex from my fork in exchange for superior damping
what use is a really stiff fork if it spikes or packs up?

if i was a frame manufacturer i would definately i adopt the 1.5 standard for DJ, Freeride and DH frame
however i doubt i would produce 1.5 forks from a fork manufacturing point of view, unless the market really required me to do so and ATM i dont think this is the case

umm, when did people get the impression Brian was an engineer part of product development? geez leave the guy alone lol...

and nobody suggested 1.125 was superior, but rather 1.5 wasent entirely necessary....when will this die?!

i agree the 1.5 technically is superior, but do we really need it that much???



this has to be probably one of the best threads of the year
it is actually very interseting to read all of the 13 pages

NICE WORK Monkies!!!!!!!! :dancing:

 

[narlus]

13 pages? it's a mere 5 for me...change yr preferences, people! unless you like to hit the "next page" button excessively.

 

[The Kadvang]

Narlus, enlighen me. I hate switching pages.

 

[The Kadvang]

Got it

 

[RaID]

13 pages? it's a mere 5 for me...change yr preferences, people! unless you like to hit the "next page" button excessively.

nice one didnt know you could change that

 

[scurban]

nice top see they are bringing back the Shiver SC

 

[Bulldog]

nice top see they are bringing back the Shiver SC

What I got from Brian was the NSMB listings are the international OEM fork options. Meaning some models ("R" models for one) and some options will either be unavailable or different for aftermarket sales. He said the Shiver SC wasn't listed for US sales.

 

[scurban]

thanks for ruining it for me! lol

 

[Enduro]

Haven't you seen the '06 Sherman?

Thanks 4 the laugh man! Whahaha

 

[mplutodh1]

any news on the height of the 888s? did they fix the problems from the 04's? if someone brought this up, sorry, just too lazy to read through everything...

 

[punkassean]

Thanks 4 the laugh man! Whahaha

Werd^

 

[frorider]

heh no one's reading this thread any more anyway but wanted to add another factor to consider. it's all about insertion baby.

for a reasonably stiff interface between the steerer tube and the fork crown, the 1.5 inch steerer tube will require less depth of insertion into the crown. i think you can see this right away by looking at the photos of the zokes 66 and the fox 36 SC forks and comparing them to the 1.5 inch shermans.

this means that the axle to top-of-crown distance will tend to be taller for the 1.125 long travel forks, unless the design is trading off stiffness. i think i read that the marzocchi 66 is in fact taller than the equivalent travel 1.5 inch sherman--is that correct?

anyway something to think about. depending on the frame geometry, having a slightly taller fork might be good or bad or not even noticeable. so if you put aside the increased bearing area advantage of 1.5 and focus just on the strength/stiffness aspect, i suppose you could make a reasonably stiff and strong 1.125 ST and crown assembly if you don't mind a fork that is a little tall for the amount of travel it has. if anyone has 66 or fox 36 measurements to confirm or contradict this.....

 

[Incubus]

Since the 66 measurements have now "officially" :wink: been released, here goes:

150mm - 575mm a2c
170mm - 595mm a2c

...they are tall relative to their travel and 1.5" forks.

I wonder if the 1.125" steerer 6" travel Sherman will have a different axle to crown measurement than the '03 breakout (6" travel, 1.5")

 

[azonicbruce]

Since the 66 measurements have now "officially" :wink: been released, here goes:

150mm - 575mm a2c
170mm - 595mm a2c

...they are tall relative to their travel and 1.5" forks.

I wonder if the 1.125" steerer 6" travel Sherman will have a different axle to crown measurement than the '03 breakout (6" travel, 1.5")

I'm not up to speed on how those measurments are taken. Is that center of the axle to the top of the crown (where the headset race sits)?

Would anyone happen to know the a2c of a Z150 or the Breakout (6" version)?

 

[OGRipper]

Damn, 14 pages. This thread should be bronzed or something.

Ordinarily I prefer more insertion but is this one reason the 888 is so tall?

Maybe go-ride can make the WAYlowrider crown: 1.5 for 888.

 

[The Kadvang]

I'm not up to speed on how those measurments are taken. Is that center of the axle to the top of the crown (where the headset race sits)?

Would anyone happen to know the a2c of a Z150 or the Breakout (6" version)?

Yep, center of the axel to crown race. The axel-crown of my z150 is something like 21 inches. If you have a marzocchi manual its all in there too, a2c of all their forks. Dunno about the sherman though.