[dan-o]

I disagree, was Kerry less motivated to be President than Bush? It is a matter of poor campaigning, not motivation or desire.

Let me use myself as an example.

I voted for gay marriage here in MA.
However, I wasn't so committed to the cause that I was compelled to act beyond my own vote.

My point is that these boycotts/protests etc are evidence of energy that should've been utilized prior to the election, not as a reaction to the result, if people REALLY cared.

Samirol/Ohio/Silver: what did you do beyond your personal vote?

 

[Samirol]

Simply blaming the momos for buying more ads doesn't justify the inability of the pro-marriage folks to convince the fence-sitters to vote against the ban.

It wasn't how many ads they bought, it was the ads they ran. They ran complete lies as truth. The pro-gay marriage groups actually raised more money, but didn't spend it as well.

Do you think the Republican whining about Obama's ad budget is legit? McCain was obviously motivated to win.

They are whining for the right cause, but for the wrong reason. They are whining because Obama was able to raise more money. There is no reason why an election should last nearly two years and cost as much money as it did. A short 6 week election with no radio or TV advertising would be much better.

I donated 100 bucks, but didn't volunteer any time.

 

[$tinkle]

It wasn't how many ads they bought, it was the ads they ran. They ran complete lies as truth.

by "they", i hope you mean both sides

 

[Samirol]

by "they", i hope you mean both sides

no, because the ads you posted earlier aren't anywhere near the straight out lies that the mormons put out

 

[$tinkle]

so it's not a straight out lie that mormons are going to unlawfully violate lesbians' 4th amendments rights? that's what the "Home Invasion" spot clearly portrays.

there are others, but let's deal w/ this one first.

 

[Samirol]

so it's not a straight out lie that mormons are going to unlawfully violate lesbians' 4th amendments rights? that's what the "Home Invasion" spot clearly portrays.

there are others, but let's deal w/ this one first.

The ad clearly said that the Mormons, who financed the yes on 8 campaign, are pushing to remove the legal right of same-sex couples to get a marriage license. The people that made it openly said that it is satire.

What about the ad that said that your children will learn about gay marriage in school, which is an outright lie?

 

[$tinkle]

The ad clearly said that the Mormons, who financed the yes on 8 campaign, are pushing to remove the legal right of same-sex couples to get a marriage license. The people that made it openly said that it is satire.

weak lube on the half shaft right there

What about the ad that said that your children will learn about gay marriage in school, which is an outright lie?

seems to me if legislation is being enacted, that it certainly should be taught, especially in any class that might make passing mention of "rights". also seems that in the vein of anthropology (social studies ring a bell?), this should be taught.

think about it: if you're pro-gay rights, and this measure had won, wouldn't one of the fruits (!) of your labor be to educate? furthermore, how could you then in good conscience expect schools to teach about civil rights & exclude gay rights?

 

[Samirol]

Marriage isn't taught except in sex education, and parents are warned a couple weeks beforehand and are allowed to opt out.

 

[$tinkle]

no....

in sex ed, marriage may be is taught as part of an optional section of the course, but that certainly does not exclude those who recently gained rights from having this info inseminated in other appropriate curricula

do you seriously think students can graduate high school ignorant of this topic by design, yet still be taught about women's suffrage, religious oppression which drove subjects of the king to our shore, slavery, & civil rights?

to recap: i do not personally see gay rights on par w/ civil rights, but it would be increasingly difficult to make this distinction defensible if sexual identity becomes completely irrelevant in the structure of our society.

 

[Samirol]

no....

in sex ed, marriage may be is taught as part of an optional section of the course, but that certainly does not exclude those who recently gained rights from having this info inseminated in other appropriate curricula

do you seriously think students can graduate high school ignorant of this topic by design, yet still be taught about women's suffrage, religious oppression which drove subjects of the king to our shore, slavery, & civil rights?

to recap: i do not personally see gay rights on par w/ civil rights, but it would be increasingly difficult to make this distinction defensible if sexual identity becomes completely irrelevant in the structure of our society.

The California Education Code permits school districts to offer sex education, but if they do, they have to "teach respect for marriage and committed relationships." (http://www.sandiego6.com/political/story.aspx?content_id=fc844be4-1ed5-44f1-96f9-e07cd8fe7a73&rss=tick)

The issue at hand is the question of whether it is taught in schools without the parent's consent, and since it isn't, then they straight out lied. The advertisement said that kids will learn that gay marriage is okay in school without the parents consent and that the parents cannot object to it, which is not how it works in California.

 

[$tinkle]

The California Education Code permits school districts to offer sex education, but if they do, they have to "teach respect for marriage and committed relationships." (http://www.sandiego6.com/political/story.aspx?content_id=fc844be4-1ed5-44f1-96f9-e07cd8fe7a73&rss=tick)

The issue at hand is the question of whether it is taught in schools without the parent's consent, and since it isn't, then they straight out lied. The advertisement said that kids will learn that gay marriage is okay in school without the parents consent and that the parents cannot object to it, which is not how it works in California.

see now, you're interchanging the words "will learn" (formerly contingent upon rejection of prop 8) and "is taught" (contingent upon merely attending a current class regardless of prop 8 outcome)

so which is it?

i'm now understanding your position to be this "huge lie" is gay marriage shall be taught in sex ed

ed: oh, found this

(4) Instruction and materials shall be appropriate for use with
pupils of all races, genders, sexual orientations, ethnic and
cultural backgrounds, and pupils with disabilities.

source

so how exactly does sexual orientation relate to class materials? just slot-A-into-tab-B discussions, and not societal applications?

 

[$tinkle]

ok, i believe this is the ad in question:

this one cites the conditional (prop 8 being defeated) education offering, which is hardly an "outright lie". a bit heavy-handed to be sure, but not a lie, which requires knowing what's true, and then making a contradictory statement.

if the future is not known, how can a statement based upon the unknown possess any degree of (un)truth?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

what the fvck does it matter?

srsly...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

if the future is not known, how can a statement based upon the unknown possess any degree of (un)truth?

Truthyness?

 

[Samirol]

this one cites the conditional (prop 8 being defeated) education offering, which is hardly an "outright lie". a bit heavy-handed to be sure, but not a lie, which requires knowing what's true, and then making a contradictory statement.

if the future is not known, how can a statement based upon the unknown possess any degree of (un)truth?

If the GOP ran an ad saying that if Barack Obama wins, there will be race riots and BLACK PEOPLE will rape your white daughter and give her AIDS, that would be a complete fabrication and a lie.

what the fvck does it matter?

srsly...

it matters because the LDS ran a misinformation campaign to violate the basic human right of marriage

 

[$tinkle]

If the GOP ran an ad saying that if Barack Obama wins, there will be race riots and BLACK PEOPLE will rape your white daughter and give her AIDS, that would be a complete fabrication and a lie.

pfft - we all know not all muslims are black

it matters because the LDS ran a misinformation campaign to violate the basic human right of marriage

if it's a basic human right, then how does polygamy play into this? or countries where the age of consent is +/- ours? do we recognize their marriage(s) as valid too?

srsly.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

it matters because the LDS ran a misinformation campaign to violate the basic human right of marriage

Sorry...I didn't mean to have that aimed solely at you...but at the issue in general...

 

[dan-o]

Sorry...I didn't mean to have that aimed solely at you...but at the issue in general...

When you catch teh ghey you'll understand.

 

[Samirol]

Sorry...I didn't mean to have that aimed solely at you...but at the issue in general...

Oh, the same sex marriage issue matters because seeing same sex relationships as equal to straight relationships is necessary to seeing gay people as equal to straight people. The same battle was done with interracial relationships.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

When you catch teh ghey you'll understand.

Are you hitting on me?








:biggrin:

 

[$tinkle]

Oh, the same sex marriage issue matters because seeing same sex relationships as equal to straight relationships is necessary to seeing gay people as equal to straight people. The same battle was done with interracial relationships.

while the battle may have been fought, it certainly wasn't won.

the south will rise again:

"sometimes, the role playing got out of hand"

 

[MikeD]

While I seriously hope there's equality for all in marriage sometime very soon, I have to reiterate...

Does no one else find it perverse that the federal government is somehow the mediator of the status of relationships in our society? And the fact that it's all seemingly due to a bloated and inefficient (in terms of the effort consumed in collection) tax code?

If nothing else, the .gov should just issue a "civil union" to everyone who wants one and leave marriage to the individuals involved and their families, churches, or whatever's important to them as individuals. ( I think someone else might have pointed this out earlier...if so, I'm down witcha, homes.)

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Oh, the same sex marriage issue matters because seeing same sex relationships as equal to straight relationships is necessary to seeing gay people as equal to straight people. The same battle was done with interracial relationships.

Yes...we're in agreement.

What I was implying by my comment was that this should be a non-issue.

"Oh noes!! The moral fabric of America is under attack from teh gheyness!!!11eleventy!!"

Whatever. People need to get over themselves.

 

[$tinkle]

"Oh noes!! The moral fabric of America is under attack from teh gheyness!!!11eleventy!!"

i'll wipe my henry david thoreau on that same fabric right after i give my wife her one & only orgasm

(i'm intending to illustrate how sacred marriage is; not sure if i got that across)

 

[ohio]

Samirol/Ohio/Silver: what did you do beyond your personal vote?

I ****ed a mormon dude.

 

[Plummit]

Prop 8: The Musical from Funny or Die. Couldn't sort out how to embed a non youtube vid, so here's a link: Quite the cast, BTW

 

[Secret Squirrel]

i'll wipe my henry david thoreau on that same fabric right after i give my wife her one & only orgasm

(i'm intending to illustrate how sacred marriage is; not sure if i got that across)

Then leave "marriage" in the church.

Civil union it is.

Make the freakin' dichotomy.

Just do it.

And STFU!!!


(above not intended solely for $tinks...but for all the whiners.)

p.s. And since I still need to spread rep like teh herpleaids, I owe ya one for that HDT reference, $tinkle.

 

[$tinkle]

NSFW

 

[ohio]

NSFW

Hilarious.




(Also terribly conceived. Whoever thought to put children swearing in the vid doesn't understand the religious and repressed right. It just validates their fears that the gays will corrupt "our" youth. Too much time in the SF kink-bubble, where the f-bomb is a friendly word...)

 

[Silver]

That vid isn't for anyone religious or right. It's preaching to the choir.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Hilarious.




(Also terribly conceived. Whoever thought to put children swearing in the vid doesn't understand the religious and repressed right. It just validates their fears that the gays will corrupt "our" youth. Too much time in the SF kink-bubble, where the f-bomb is a friendly word...)

Probably not helping teh cause.

 

[$tinkle]

g8rs

gonna g8