[BigMike]

With all these new long travel single crown forks, I've heard talk about dual crown forks may be on the way out. Also that big travel bikes are gone too. The days of Army's with Super Monsters are gone, to be replaced by bikes with 6"/6"


What are your thoughts on this? I know for me, I like Dual crown forks, and will keep riding them. It is weird though, that the new 'zoke 66 is the same travel as my 'zoke SuperT+

 

[The Kadvang]

DC till the day I die...

I don't think, at least at the heighest levels, that a SC fork can provide the same stiffness/strength/weight as a comparable DC fork.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

It seems to me DH bikes are getting more & more travel, why would you go backwards?

 

[mserko1]

I think that they will always be around.

 

[nickaziz]

Long SC forks just give people more choices. For people who want a lot of travel, but don't need the strength or weight of a big fork, they can go for a long SC. To date, I have not seen a single sc fork that would withstand true abuse. Now for 2005 we will have the 66 and fox 36, but I think it will be more of the same old bs.

 

[Curb Hucker]

The days of Army's with Super Monsters are gone, to be replaced by bikes with 6"/6"

Yes the days of Armys and Apocalypses with super monsters are gone, yet new bikes have filled their spots. The 10-14in huck bikes of years past have been replaced with the numerous 9-11in dh bikes of today that have more technology into the design and shock as well. The advancement in technology put into the new bikes let the rider accomplish the same thing he would on an older huge travel bike. As for forks I dont think the DC will ever die, i dont think you can make an 8in SC fork that will do anything better or give the rider any advantage over an 8in DC, the SC would offer more disadvantages.

 

[Tully]

I think they will lose a little popularity, but personally, I cannot foresee ever racing DH on a single crown fork. However, a 6" single crown would be great for really aggressive trail riding and some freeriding.

 

[Bulldog]

I think only racers and huckers need to ride DC forks anymore. You only NEED to do so for greater than 170mm of travel, or some additional strength/stiffness for those guys truly riding extreme terrain and going huge (less than 5% of riders). Other than that the crop of big SC forks will be adequate for everyone else. If you still need the reassurance of a DC so be it. I'd bet on a 66 or even the Breakout+ over an '01 Xvert Carbon in a deathmatch anyday. Take a 36 over the '01 Super T every time, etc.


I think it's funny, yet awesome, to see people excited about burly 6"x6" bikes (again). A lot of guys (like me) have realized they can do as much or more on these lighter/more agile bikes than they can on a full DH/huck sled, and the current/upcoming crop of big SC's has allowed even more versatility.

 

[dexter]

i believe, granted if every company does it, that in a few years all dh bikes will be 1.5 or still 1 1/8 with single crown forks on the race circuit. now im partial due to sponsorship and what not but the breakout + is stiffer than any boxxer iv ridden, was stiffer than my old dorado, and even if not more than my current slider +. it weights less, has better turning radius (lets not start that whole arguement again) is just as stiff, same internals and externals of the big forks (sliders and 88's) and they just look good in my opinion.

also being able to x up or barspin/tailwhip your dh bike (okay maby not tailwhip) is really fun.

next season if my deal works through i will be on a 1.5 frame with a slider plus with some nice ti bits in it.

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Long SC forks just give people more choices. For people who want a lot of travel, but don't need the strength or weight of a big fork, they can go for a long SC. To date, I have not seen a single sc fork that would withstand true abuse. Now for 2005 we will have the 66 and fox 36, but I think it will be more of the same old bs.

Now what is true abuse?

 

[ChrisRobin]

If big travel bikes are on the way out, why are big companies like Rock Shox and Marzocchi making 8" mainstream??? Next season EVERYONE will have 8" of travel in front and I don't think any single crown will be able to reach that amount of travel.

Of course, I can totally see the attraction with the single crown 6 and 7" travel forks. I would love to have a bike with 6 and 6 for tooling around when I get out west.

edit: I do agree that the heavy forks are on the way out...the Monster Ts, the Stratos S8s...etc.

 

[Toshi]

i think long travel single crowns are kinda silly, since they're so tall. i will willingly sacrifice the ability to do xups (not that i can do them anyway) for strength, lower axle-crown for a given travel, and general structural advantage

 

[seismic]

Considering how extreme modern DH and especially freeride have grown I think the burliness and stiffness of a DC fork is hard to give up. I hope not I will have to run a SC on a DH bike ever !

 

[scurban]

It seems to me DH bikes are getting more & more travel, why would you go backwards?

well, travel is fine and all, but at some point you have to realize that less is more. How much does your average 250cc motocross bike have? and those go way bigger, and through way gnarleier stuff then mountain bikes ever will. They don't need 19 inches of travel. neither do mountain bikes. People are doing incredible things on single crown forks these days. Because bikes do not have motors, and must be pedaled, Forks for mtn bikes must be light in addition to stong. If SC crown forks can be designed to handle the abuse of down hill riding, yeah I think DC's will be Fazed out especially with the new progression in MTB bikes.

There were guys at the recent crankworks slopstyle comp that hit the majority of the stunts on hardtails. Why couldn't you hit everything on a sc ds bike? (actually riders like cam mccual did) SC forks just offer more when it comes to tricks. If we are going to progress in freeride, riders will have to start doing barspins, tailwhips, x-ups, and combinations off of huge drops, which can't be done with DC's. To do these tricks off huge stunts is going to require light weight forks, (for toss-abiltiy), and high strength (to handle impacts). High strength, and light weight are also the perfect combination for DH racing.

So yeah, eventually DC forks will probably become less popular, but still serve a purpose in their own way.

 

[Toshi]

If we are going to progress in freeride, riders will have to start doing barspins, tailwhips, x-ups, and combinations off of huge drops, which can't be done with DC's.

i don't think this is true for the average rider. i certainly am never going to do a tailwhip, let alone one off a drop in my life, and i frankly have little desire to. if dc forks let me ride the trails i want with good flow then they're all i need, and if you make a "magic" sc fork that has low weight and high strength, you can make a dc version that's stronger, the same weight, and with more travel for a given a-c distance. i think that weekend warriors like myself who don't have bmx envy will continue to choose dc forks for our big bikes for this reason.

 

[scurban]

i don't think this is true for the average rider. i certainly am never going to do a tailwhip, let alone one off a drop in my life, and i frankly have little desire to. if dc forks let me ride the trails i want with good flow then they're all i need, and if you make a "magic" sc fork that has low weight and high strength, you can make a dc version that's stronger, the same weight, and with more travel for a given a-c distance. i think that weekend warriors like myself who don't have bmx envy will continue to choose dc forks for our big bikes for this reason.

yeah, you might be able to make a DC stronger, I did not argue that. However if you don't have BMX envy, them most likely you won't need a fork stronger then those that do, and who are going to be busting huge moves off gigantic stunts.
Just like Motocross bikes. There are guys that can backflip a CR250. Your average weekend warrior can't. However the travel, and technology is there if you need it. Most dont.
If a single crown fork can take the abuse of doing a barspin off a 40 foot gap, it will probably hold up to your "weekend warrior abuse"
If you don't need DC why use them? Maybe you are just concerned that the forks you spent your last penny on will become obsolete, which is not so, if you are happy riding them, and never plan to go big enough to faze them then don't stress about it.

 

[BMXman]

If big travel bikes are on the way out, why are big companies like Rock Shox and Marzocchi making 8" mainstream??? Next season EVERYONE will have 8" of travel in front and I don't think any single crown will be able to reach that amount of travel.

I think part of the reason all the dh companies upped the travel of their dh forks was to avoid competition from the 7" SC market. I mean my breakout plus rode great and was every bit as precise and stiff as my former DC forks....but I digress 'cause next year I'm back on 'zocchi

 

[fatchance]

I think only racers and huckers need to ride DC forks anymore. You only NEED to do so for greater than 170mm of travel, or some additional strength/stiffness for those guys truly riding extreme terrain and going huge (less than 5% of riders). Other than that the crop of big SC forks will be adequate for everyone else. If you still need the reassurance of a DC so be it. I'd bet on a 66 or even the Breakout+ over an '01 Xvert Carbon in a deathmatch anyday. Take a 36 over the '01 Super T every time, etc.
<snip>

To me it's not about what you need, but what you have the most fun with. I don't race and I don't go huge, but I sure do love ripping down Whistler with the trusty old 7" Super T up front. Next bike it will be an 888. As tough as those new 7" single crowns look, I can't see any reason for me to run one over the double crown. I like looking down and seeing the stanchions coming up to the headset as I'm about to roll into something scary. And, I think a lot of other people do too. To each one's own...ride hard and have fun..

later.......

 

[MtnbikeMike]

To me it's not about what you need, but what you have the most fun with. I don't race and I don't go huge, but I sure do love ripping down Whistler with the trusty old 7" Super T up front. Next bike it will be an 888. As tough as those new 7" single crowns look, I can't see any reason for me to run one over the double crown. I like looking down and seeing the stanchions coming up to the headset as I'm about to roll into something scary. And, I think a lot of other people do too. To each one's own...ride hard and have fun..

later.......

Keep you eyes on the trail and you won't need to worry about where your crowns are

 

[zane]

If SC forks are the "way to go", and that they can be as strong as DC forks, how come you've never seen them on any motorcycle? Most 250cc dirt bikes have 12 inches of travel in the rear, and about the same in the front. Sometimes having a little more travel can save a situation. And the strength of a SC fork still can't be compared to a DC fork (of equivilant age & technology). People say their 66's are really stiff, but they're just a 888 with the top crown missing. I've talked to a few people who can feel the flex in their 888, so how a single crown version be any stiffer?

I do think that longer-travel SC forks have their place (trail riding, freeride, urban hucks, etc) but for DH racing I don't think you can get DC stiffness out of a SC fork.

 

[Zark]

wow, interesting thread guys. The new SC forks are purdy nice, DC's will have to improve to survive in their market niche. Darwanism can be a great thing, we might get some really new ideas to take advantage of DC's differences. Maverick shows where things might be headed. Ditch the steerer, have a one piece inverted uppers, trim a lot of fat and have all the travel and stiffness. But this will be a smaller market of racers and those with real DH near them.

When long travel SC's came out many said "whats the point?" It appears lots of people got used to the idea. A bike is supposed to be versatile and SC's help to that end. A SC front end is more friendly to the knees when climbing, tighter turning radius, it can be lighter. A broader market perhaps? We'll see.

 

[math2014]

Dont be surprised if by 2007 , you see something called 88RC with 8" singlecrown, coz if i remember correctly, back in 2002, people said, 5" SC is the limit.... then we got manitou saying that 6" is the limit with 1.5 HT, then zocchi saying 6" is the limit with 1.125" ht, then manitou again saying 7" is the limit with 1.5" , and now zocchi 7" with 1.125" ht.....

i see a pattern here.

Personally, i like the looks of DC forks, but when i fall off the bike, my bars spin, i wouldnt like to imagine what would happen to my frame after continious banging of the stanchions of a DC against it.... even with rubber bumpers....

 

[zedro]

Personally, i like the looks of DC forks, but when i fall off the bike, my bars spin, i wouldnt like to imagine what would happen to my frame after continious banging of the stanchions of a DC against it.... even with rubber bumpers....

actually i worry about ripping out hydro lines with an SC since the bars have no limit to their rotation.

 

[math2014]

Well i got goodridge, so they are tough to rip....

 

[seismic]

Dont be surprised if by 2007 , you see something called 88RC with 8" singlecrown, coz if i remember correctly, back in 2002, people said, 5" SC is the limit.... then we got manitou saying that 6" is the limit with 1.5 HT, then zocchi saying 6" is the limit with 1.125" ht, then manitou again saying 7" is the limit with 1.5" , and now zocchi 7" with 1.125" ht.....

i see a pattern here.

Personally, i like the looks of DC forks, but when i fall off the bike, my bars spin, i wouldnt like to imagine what would happen to my frame after continious banging of the stanchions of a DC against it.... even with rubber bumpers....

I think you are right ! They are going to make very long travel SC forks...because it sells !! Thinking about all the hype about Fox`s 36 and Marz`s 66. Personally, I think and believe that a DC fork is much stronger considering the design and I think they will last longer when talking extreme riding :dancing:

 

[math2014]

Yep thats right seismic... if it will sell they will make it!

The philosophy "if it is not broken dont fix it" does not apply in some cases i have seen. Now in some cases we got progress as an outcome, in some other cases we just got new models for the shake of marketing.

For example the bighit. It was working, but... a demo8 would sell more, since it is a new "revolutionary" product adding up to the image of the firm.

 

[ChrisRobin]

I think part of the reason all the dh companies upped the travel of their dh forks was to avoid competition from the 7" SC market. I mean my breakout plus rode great and was every bit as precise and stiff as my former DC forks....but I digress 'cause next year I'm back on 'zocchi

Good point although from what I'm seeing is the 8" forks were once only known for being huge and heavy. The 888 is still tall but there are ways around it. The newer Boxxers look awesome because they're not overly tall and most importantly...they're light! Same goes for the DH 2.0.

Although, like you said, if it wasn't for these 7" single crown forks, 7" of dual crown travel would still be the 'norm'.

 

[ChrisRobin]

Thinking about all the hype about Fox`s 36 and Marz`s 66. Personally, I think and believe that a DC fork is much stronger considering the design and I think they will last longer when talking extreme riding :dancing:

I'd like to see someone big and heavy DH race a 7" single crown for one full season just to see how it holds up.

 

[Jm_]

I don't think, at least at the heighest levels, that a SC fork can provide the same stiffness/strength/weight as a comparable DC fork.

Ya canna change the laws of phyiscs

 

[KleinMp99]

6 and 6 will be my new ride.

 

[MikeD]

They will sell whatever we buy.

In turn, they will try to influence us to buy whatever it is they want to sell.

 

[ChrisRobin]

In turn, they will try to influence us to buy whatever it is they want to sell.

The name 'Shimano' came to mind.

 

[math2014]

6 and 6 will be my new ride.

and my new-converted ride is going to be 6 by 4.5 or 5.5

 

[Brian HCM#1]

well, travel is fine and all, but at some point you have to realize that less is more. How much does your average 250cc motocross bike have? and those go way bigger, and through way gnarleier stuff then mountain bikes ever will. They don't need 19 inches of travel. neither do mountain bikes. People are doing incredible things on single crown forks these days. Because bikes do not have motors, and must be pedaled, Forks for mtn bikes must be light in addition to stong. If SC crown forks can be designed to handle the abuse of down hill riding, yeah I think DC's will be Fazed out especially with the new progression in MTB bikes.

There were guys at the recent crankworks slopstyle comp that hit the majority of the stunts on hardtails. Why couldn't you hit everything on a sc ds bike? (actually riders like cam mccual did) SC forks just offer more when it comes to tricks. If we are going to progress in freeride, riders will have to start doing barspins, tailwhips, x-ups, and combinations off of huge drops, which can't be done with DC's. To do these tricks off huge stunts is going to require light weight forks, (for toss-abiltiy), and high strength (to handle impacts). High strength, and light weight are also the perfect combination for DH racing.

So yeah, eventually DC forks will probably become less popular, but still serve a purpose in their own way.

Well I'll stick to riding N* with a bigger travel bike. Lower Karpiel/Dog Bone is much easier on a bigger travel bike for me. For my style of riding I need all the travel I can get since I run over whatever is in my path.

 

[math2014]

Klein how come you ditched the demo9/888?

 

[Funky Monk]

I think it's plain ignorant to label long travel sc's as "media hype" or something similar...sure, the bike industry basically has come up with a new market for these forks, but I believe it was just a thing waiting to happen. I mean, there obviously is a strong demand for this type of product, and it has been a rather logical progress from dc's to sc's when it comes to general mtb gear development. Long travel sc forks seem to have many advantages (weight, turning ratio, allows new tricks etc.) over double crown ones.

And stop making those comparisons to the MX scene. A cross bike and mtb are two totally different applications, with a few scant similarities. There's kinda only one type of MX bike in the market at the moment; their development has more or less reached it's current peak.

Who knows what a regular DH bike looks like when the "best" constructional solutions that suit its purpose are finally found? It could have a sc fork, a whole new type of linkage, made out of carbon fibre etc., only time can tell.

What I'm trying to say is that the leap from dc's to sc's can be just one step closer to the "perfect" long travel bike...or it may not. The industry has to go through all kinds of different products and applications before the best ones really succeed in standing out from the rest.

 

[ChrisRobin]

For sure long travel SC forks have their place...especially in freeride but for DH, I don't think so. Who cares about a crazy turning radius, or x-ups, or bar spins. Like I said before, I'd like someone to be a guinea-pig and race one for a full season to see if it folds in two, or if the crown starts creaking...etc. I'm 193lbs without gear, my bike is heavy, I ride like an idiot so DC for me!

 

[seismic]

Well I'll stick to riding N* with a bigger travel bike. Lower Karpiel/Dog Bone is much easier on a bigger travel bike for me. For my style of riding I need all the travel I can get since I run over whatever is in my path.

That is how I like to run my bike too....maybe it is a Karpiel-thing :devil: :devil:

 

[Brian HCM#1]

That is how I like to run my bike too....maybe it is a Karpiel-thing :devil: :devil:

Yep, my fork is supposed to be here today

 

[seismic]

Yep, my fork is supposed to be here today

WOW, - If I was you I would be super excited :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: