[BIGHITR]

No, it's not just one time. It's all the time and its old. The fact it's the same exact ones every time says exactly what I point out. There is no reason to resort to hostility, but that always is the case with this select few. And they find it necessary to answer my posts every time rather than just keep their hostility in and let someone answer my posts with the intent to provide pros and cons. If they can't do that without being idiots then they should just click off my post and move to the next.

My question was to get input on a subject I'm SURE other's have had question about. Someone agrees it would make the bike longer wheelbase and stated this is good, and better head angle which is also good, and it would put my bike back to original "level" geo, with just one drawback, the BB height. But seeing I like riding over logs, I see it as three pluses, and one draw back. I don't think one inch higher is going to change my ride that much. And I do NOT believe other people have not done the same thing or discussed this issue. I just wanted some input. I hear some say bad idea but another person points out that it has other benefits.

In the end, I'll weigh the measures and decide for myself based on input. Idiot attacks are a waste of time and show the same few that enjoy it. It shows their childishness. And the same ones that do it every time show I'm right. All anyone has to do is look at any of my posts and they'll see the same ones just can't show any adult restraint.

I'm not asking for it! I'm asking for multiple opinions as to the pro's and cons and every time I get assh/le responses from the same exact assh/les. As one says, "it IS my bike, so I can do whatever the hell I want with it." In the end, that's the smartest statement I've heard on this website to date.

I invite all those that attack, to back the hell off, and show some adult like restraint in their thoughts to try and be sarcastically funny with what they feel is attacking like wit. It's childish.

I want good discussion. Not childish attack by those who like to feel superior by brow beating. This site is taken over by the same cyber bullies every time. And I can tell you, in the woods, this never happens. If someone takes my right of way, I verbally let them know. And if I hear any negative back, the guy is always riding away and never stops to come back by my verbal invite to discuss the matter with me personally. Trust me, if this was face to face forum, there'd be a lot of good discussion and no more of this bullying. I don't care what's the excuse.

I asked a question. I expected good quality mature advice on the pros and cons. So haters, especially you Jon Kranked, don't post anymore on my posts if you don't have something nice to say. Think you can show some mature restraint!? Personally, I doubt it!

In fact, I'd have a $50 donation to RM to remove all neg rep put on me by the same idiots I speak of, and a challenge to all the same that they can't leave my posts alone without nasty bully like comments for one full year. If that could be accomplished. But I can guarantee you, that's $50 bucks I know I'll get to keep.

 

[jonKranked]

ok if you want us to start taking you seriously, you need to take our advice more seriously, and also start providing more feedback when we ask questions about YOUR particular setup.

earlier i pointed out that changing from a fork with 7" of travel to one with 8" will not necessarily change your geometry. That depends on the a2c of each fork.

case in point, a while back (2 seasons now i think) i switched from a first gen 888 that was only 7" of travel to a Fox 40 that was 8" of travel. My geometry was affected, but instead of getting slacker like most people would think, it actually got steeper - because the a2c on the 40 was less than the a2c on the 888. granted, this won't always be the case. but the point is, how your geometry is affected isn't a direct result of changing to a fork with a different amount of travel, but of the difference in a2c between the forks.

that being said, you're also still operating under the assumption that a bike needs an equal amount of front and rear travel to feel "balanced". If that were true, then why does nobody on a v10 run a 10" travel fork (aside from the fact that, for all intents and purposes, they don't exist)? because it doesn't. yes, a lot of bikes TEND to have the same amount of front and rear travel, but that's not a hard and fast rule.

what exactly is it that you DON'T like about your current setup makes you want to increase the rear travel? do you not like the geometry? is there something wrong with the damping and you want to improve suspension performance? is the shock you have properly tuned? because more often than not poor suspension performance is caused by improper adjustment rather than a poorly designed shock (or a shock tuned for a frame with a different leverage setting or shock curve).

 

[BIGHITR]

One person said on here it had three good pluses to the idea. I'd like to hear some good constructive comments as to the pros and cons. I've heard the bike will handle differently. How? My bike rides like a limo now unless I'm at high speeds. Considering I put on a longer fork, better tires and other components, I notice the bike rides quite nice. But I'm sure people would say you should never mess with the bike's original geo by putting on a longer fork. But let's face it, I did, and so do a lot of bikers. I'd like to hear exactly what it would do pro and con to add an inch on the rear. If you can't give a good response other than "hey eveyrone, he's not a bike mechanic ergo he's unintelligent," then don't bother posting, just move on. Resist the temptation to post. It's an adult like trait some have and a lot should try and grasp.

 

[BIGHITR]

Now that's a better response Jon. I gotta get back to work but I'll post a pic and discuss my set up this weekend. I have to ride on Saturday, I hear there is a trail maintenance day on Sunday, which will be my first time participating in because I've never gotten into that kind of thing before and they're asking for volunteers to help build a FR jump trail in the park that the county has finally agreed to do so I'll be busy then too. But when I can get back with pics, I can show you the store bought bike and the one I built from frame up that's an exact match. I'll get back to you with a set up when I can this weekend.

And thanks for being open to trying to mend the other issue.

 

[jonKranked]

Now that's a better response Jon. I gotta get back to work but I'll post a pic and discuss my set up this weekend. I have to ride on Saturday, I hear there is a trail maintenance day on Sunday, which will be my first time participating in because I've never gotten into that kind of thing before and they're asking for volunteers to help build a FR jump trail in the park that the county has finally agreed to do so I'll be busy then too. But when I can get back with pics, I can show you the store bought bike and the one I built from frame up that's an exact match. I'll get back to you with a set up when I can this weekend.

And thanks for being open to trying to mend the other issue.

fo shizzle. this weekend when you're riding, pay attention to how the bike performs and handles. Specifically what you do like about it, and what you don't like about it.

 

[norbar]

Now that's a better response Jon. I gotta get back to work but I'll post a pic and discuss my set up this weekend. I have to ride on Saturday, I hear there is a trail maintenance day on Sunday, which will be my first time participating in because I've never gotten into that kind of thing before and they're asking for volunteers to help build a FR jump trail in the park that the county has finally agreed to do so I'll be busy then too. But when I can get back with pics, I can show you the store bought bike and the one I built from frame up that's an exact match. I'll get back to you with a set up when I can this weekend.

And thanks for being open to trying to mend the other issue.

Nope. Someone has said that a higher AC fork has 3 benefits, NOT that a longer SHOCK has its benefits. You see what you want to see Also Im pretty sure 99% of the forum would like their forks as low as possible, even if it meant riding upside down because its more beneficial than having no front wheel traction due to your bars being over your head and all your weight being in the back. Im overexaggerating but you should get it.

Also many people tried longer shocks - it almost always ended badly. Its prooven to not work as Ive stated in the PM. You ve got 7 inches of travel that should be more than enough for 90% of what most people ride so unless the frame has some issues more travel wont help.

 

[jonKranked]

I asked a question. I expected good quality mature advice on the pros and cons. So haters, especially you Jon Kranked, don't post anymore on my posts if you don't have something nice to say. Think you can show some mature restraint!? Personally, I doubt it!

In fact, I'd have a $50 donation to RM to remove all neg rep put on me by the same idiots I speak of, and a challenge to all the same that they can't leave my posts alone without nasty bully like comments for one full year. If that could be accomplished. But I can guarantee you, that's $50 bucks I know I'll get to keep.

i got bored -rep'ing you a long time ago, chief.

 

[jonKranked]

bighitr, in another thread you mentioned looking into a heavier spring for your rear shock (and that you're 160lbs on a 450lbs coil for a 2.75 stroke shock). you also mentioned that you crank up your preload to minimize sag. So chances are you're not currently getting full utilization of your suspension, so I don't think that a longer shock is the right solution. Plain and simple, longer travel bikes need a certain amount of sag to function properly. Even short to mid travel bikes do.


also, in regards to BB height, yes, it will give you more ground clearance. but it also raises your CoG, which will affect how you turn (potential to lose traction sooner when leaning), your stability at high speed, and increases the potential for going OTB. Granted, the amount of change we're talking about here isn't that great, so you may or may not notice its effects all the time.

 

[OGRipper]

Seems you don't really want to hear people say it's not such a good idea. Stop seeking the blessing of a bunch of semi-anonymous interweb geeks (myself included) and go ahead and try it. If you can't feel the difference from a 1" increase in BB height, you will probably love it.

 

[Beef Supreme]

Many words, little punctuation.

Sorry this isn't a nurturing and supportive environment for completely retarded ideas. Go to Pinkbike if you want that. I am sure somebody there would think the idea is "Sick." In the end, the best you can hope for is sound advice. You are getting that.

Since you are demanding three pros about the idea, I will see if I can help you out.

1) People with dumb ideas are funny.
2) People that won't listen to good advice about dumb ideas are even funnier
3) People that get butt hurt because no one gets the brilliance of their dumb idea are funnier still.

I hope this helps.

 

[demo 9]

Sorry this isn't a nurturing and supportive environment for completely retarded ideas. Go to Pinkbike if you want that. I am sure somebody there would think the idea is "Sick." In the end, the best you can hope for is sound advise. You are getting that.

Since you are demanding three pros about the idea, I will see if I can help you out.

1) People with dumb ideas are funny.
2) People that won't listen to good advise about dumb ideas are even funnier
3) People that get butt hurt because no one gets the brilliance of their dumb idea are funnier still.

I hope this helps.

END THREAD

 

[DirtyMike]

A nice and gentle asnwer to the entire thread and question

Break your bike into to parts. The front, and the rear.

Your rear suspension's geo doesnt change in the relation to the frame when you change your fork. Your HTA changes with a fork replacement, only if the AtC changes, or stack height of your headset changes. That will raise or lower the front of your bike, and move the BB up or down.

Now even though the head tube of your bike may be higher, the axle path, and geo of the rear suspension system stays the same in relation to the frame itself. Now when you change the Eye to Eye length on the shock, your now changing the agression of how the rear performs, you will probably find that you gain an inch in travel, but you will find you are blowing through that last in because the leverage changes in that last bit of travel... Blah Blah there is alot more depth into it from there..... but I dont think it needs to go into that. Now changing the eye to eye length can have even more issues, usually you will find the first part of the travel to be stiff, the middle to be wallowy, and the last part of the travel will seem non existent....


This is the bottom line with suspension.... waulity over quantity. I have seen very few bikes that will perform better by modifying the rear suspension, a big hit is not one of them, Morewood was.




I think in this case your best bet is to look at your suspension setup, learn more about what is supposed to be happening, and why it does what it does. Learn the benefit of proper sag, learn why we want bikes lower, and learn what your style of riding really is......... Sounds to me that your style just might be more of an AM style of riding over DH style, longer travel bike with xcish geo's. They are alot of fun.

 

[mandown]

depending on the arc of the suspension pivot, the extra travel could actually shorten the wheelbase and raise the bb height. envision the imaginary circle the rear axle would make in a complete rotation around the pivot point and you should be able to see that at some point a longer stroke shock will push the rear axle far enough counterclockwise (looking from the drive-side) that the rear wheel will come back toward the bottom bracket.

 

[blackohio]

fo shizzle. this weekend when you're riding, pay attention to how the bike performs and handles. Specifically what you do like about it, and what you don't like about it.

...and then Monday, in the face of overwhelming certainty come back here still not listen to any of the things people have told you. In this four page ****fest I see about 20 reasons not to do it, and about 1 to do it. That one reason, is simply because YOU don't want to hear it. You had a stupid idea, it was shot down, now move on.

Your a suspension engineer right? I mean you did go to school to design bikes, and having done that found what is the perfect design for a perfect set-up.

Please tell me I didnt read somewhere in here this whole thing spawned from "I like to ride over logs"

 

[jonKranked]

it's been a week and a half. don't worry guys, OP will deliver.

 

[demo 9]

it's been a week and a half. don't worry guys, OP will deliver.

he got stuck on a log

 

[w00dy]

My first thread on here was similar to this, I asked a question about something kind of dumb (THE Eliminator rims) and I got a lot of smartass remarks. You have to realize that under the snarky comments is a lot of collective experience. Your proposed change will probably not improve the riding qualities of your bike. It sounds like you really want to try it anyway, so do it. Nothing teaches like experience. This is not the right place to get offended at dumbass comments, though. That just makes you a bigger target.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Gotta weigh your pro's & cons...so I pose a quick quiz, what might be a con with this setup? (not mine...)

Other than the fact that the frame is obviously way to small for the rider? I bet that bike handles like garbage. Of course if you are just hucking the bike off drops then who cares about how it handles.

Basically the higher the BB is on a bike, the less stable it feels.

 

[kazlx]

For $50 you could rent a longer stroke/e2e shock and try it from Beyond Bikes or whoever does that rental program thing. You even get the benefit of trying any shock that floats your boat.

I would be inclined to suggest, however, if you're not into tuning, that the money would be better spent having your current shock tuned by Push or something along those lines.

 

[BIGHITR]

ok if you want us to start taking you seriously, you need to take our advice more seriously, and also start providing more feedback when we ask questions about YOUR particular setup......
....what exactly is it that you DON'T like about your current setup makes you want to increase the rear travel? do you not like the geometry? is there something wrong with the damping and you want to improve suspension performance? is the shock you have properly tuned? because more often than not poor suspension performance is caused by improper adjustment rather than a poorly designed shock (or a shock tuned for a frame with a different leverage setting or shock curve).

Okay, not to disappoint the crips, bloods and the awaiting RM black and green bandana wearing gang members, I've been busy! Christmas shopping, parties, work, I haven't had time to answer.

I'm answering JonKranked's original question because he's at least seemed to get what I had to say about people attacking me regularly and he has asked for some more input from me to get back to the original intent of my post.

SO, to JonKranked, here's the answers to your questions.

I bought a 2007 Gary Fisher King Fisher 1 in January '08 with a Trek warrantee replacement discount. I rode the old bike to get into shape half way into the summer, then took the King Fisher out. The first two rides the freehub in the new Bontrager wheelset broke. I posted about it on RM when it did. It left me stranded 2 miles from my car in 95 degree heat. It was fixed under warranty but it broke 20 minutes in again. By the time it was fixed the second time, the season was over and I sold the new wheelset on Ebay. I bought a brand new set of Hadleys based on what people on RM told me. While winter of '09 went by, I took parts off my old Trek bike, bought some new stuff, found a Grey King Fisher frame on Ebay new and put together an exact duplicate of the blue King Fisher I bought. See pics. Day one I put new 2008 Manitou Travis Triple 203mm TPC+ forks on both. Both bikes sink easy on the front fork, both have a very soft tail. I don't like how bad the Fox 4.0 OEM shock on the rear drops pedaling uphill. Sitting on it going over small bumps it drops. I boosted the rear spring to stop the sag as the pedal bob adjust didn't improve it too much. And the Travis drops full travel going over some obstacles so it's a soft spring.

Reason I thought about longer travel:

A buddy and I are talking about doing Whistler our first time. The drops out there play for keeps. He noticed how my fork drops and he suggested I get a heavier spring on my rear shock and a firm ride spring on the fork before we go out to Whistler. While rerouting a new set of brakes lines through the rear I unbolted the shock. While off, I noted the rear had another full .75 inch to travel at the shock thus several inches on the rear. I thought it would be good to have an extra inch or more out west at Whistler, thus why I asked the original question. Because people say putting on a longer fork by about one inch won't mess up the geo much, I thought the same for the rear. Not to mention I figured it would put it back to the original level it came as I kicked up the front by an inch. I'm not a bike mechanic and it seems that because I'm not, anything I ask on here to help me out seems like everyone want's to say, "Okay guys let's all attack the dummy who doesn't know anything about bikes." But because of the technicality of my question, I thought it was not only a very good question to ask here on RM, but I figured some other people probably have asked the same or thought of doing it, or already did so. I wanted to know the result if I did it. Obviously a longer shock stroke and 1/2 inch eye to eye will net me more travel on the rear wheel thus I inquired. The full specs on the stock bike are here.

http://fisherbikes.com/bike/archivemodel/284
Stock bike was 7" front 7" rear 179mm, Manitou Travis single intrinsic up front. Everyone told me I did the right thing to dump the intrinsic for the TPC+. Even Manitou.

Here are both bikes. The blue one I bought, the grey one I built myself from frame up. Pics below.

Blue bike. Modifications are Raceface Evolve DH crankset, Hadley Hubs, Sun Ringle MTX-33 rims, 14ga spokes, Maxxis Minion 2.50 DH tires, Cane Creek reducer flush headset, Manitou Travis Triple TPC+ fork, Hayes Stroker Ryde brakes.

Grey bike was built by me.
Gary Fisher King Fisher Frame, same set up as the blue bike but X-9 Sram set up and Haye's nine's. Wheelset is Azonic Outlaws, Raceface DH stem, Raceface DH Handlebars, also Fox 4.0 OEM shock w/450lbs spring.

I have spoke with someone else via PM who was nice enough to discuss it with me and I've got the idea that everyone is saying it's a really bad idea to put a longer shock on for more travel so at this point I'm not going to do it. I'm really surprised one inch would do all that but I guess that is the case. So

So Jon Kranked, there's the set up of both bikes. But at this point everyone has said it's a really bad idea so I won't be changing the shock. I may however get the shock tuned but I can't see turning a FOX 4.0 so I figure I'll have to get two 5.0's and then get them tuned, yes?

Until I get new shocks and the bucks to get them pushed, would I benefit from a 500/550lbs spring though at just 1 to 4mm of tension as has been suggested? Would that keep me from dropping a lot over small stuff but give me the room to sink on harder hits?

 

[kazlx]

So Jon Kranked, there's the set up of both bikes. But at this point everyone has said it's a really bad idea so I won't be changing the shock. I may however get the shock tuned but I can't see turning a FOX 4.0 so I figure I'll have to get two 5.0's and then get them tuned, yes?

Fox 3/4/5 are all the same if you send them to Push. You end up with the same shock.

 

[HAB]

Fox 3/4/5 are all the same if you send them to Push. You end up with the same shock.

Sort of. It's true that they're the same basic damper design, just the 5 has more adjustments, so there's no reason you shouldn't Push your 4s.

Tl;dr on your last post but the reason putting a little longer shock is a bad idea basically is that unlike a fork, the shock acts through a linkage system, so whatever change you make to the shock length is multiplied by 2.6 to 3+ on most bikes depending on the specific model. Really small changes produce a big result, and you typicaly can't change the eye to eye in small enough increments to be reasonable.

 

[demo 9]

shorter stems please. it surprised me you can even ride a stem that long for DH

 

[DirtyMike]

Ok, now we know for sure what bike you have. You can effectivly increase the amount of travel in the back. BUT, stay with the same EYe to eye... increase the stroke. What you will want to do though is borrow one, install it without a spring, and cycle the suspension to see if the wheel will clear..



About the sag and bottoming issue........... For DH you should be sitting about 40% into your travel, remember with a DH bike, they arent going to be a very pedallable bike no matter what you do, the Geo setup just doesnt allow for that, specially on the king fisher.... Just wasnt in the intention of the design.


In all honesty, if I were in your shoes, I would look up the proper spring for your weight, in fact, what is your weight, its actually pretty easy to look up.......... get the rear shocks on each bike tuned and rebuilt......

Be honest with yourself about what type of riding you are looking to be doing... If you want to be out pedalling and climing.... these just will not be the bikes for that... If your looking to push to the top, or ride a lift... your set.....



P.S.... I would go with at least half that size on the stems... will allow you to sit into the cockpit of the bike better, and will provide for better DH ability.

 

[BIGHITR]

Okay, I don't know what Tl;dr means... someone please explain. Here we go...

My weight is 158lbs. I'm 5'10, 33 inseam. I have my seat high and back as far as it can go to get a full leg stretch and actually I feel comfortable with the stem where it is. Maybe it's too much weight over the rear that's the issue by my riding style?

I ride in a park that the bike feels perfect in, and I do pedal it up hill. I don't stand up ever uphill, I have a habit of just sitting way up on the horn of th seat, leaning all the way over the handlebar to keep it on the ground, pretty much putting my chest on the fork tube by the stem and just trudge uphill.

The bike is about 45lbs but I'm used to it so I don't mind the weight. I actually don't have a problem taking it uphill. But I do it with the shock spring cranked up half way. It kills the pedal bob that way. I put it back where people have mentioned, and it gives me way too much pedal bob and I wind up winded end of day from all the loss of torque.

I don't downhill unless you call going fast down hill in the state park single tracks dh. But a buddy and I were discussing going to Whistler next summer and he said, "I'd get a firm spring for your fork before we'd go and maybe a 500lbs or 550 spring because if you go now as is, you're going to bottom out everywhere." Currently it's a 450lbs spring. But I think because I ride with my knees kind of grabbing the seat going down hill and while riding in the saddle, most of my body weight is over the back part of the seat, near the rear tire that maybe where I get the sagging. I think maybe I am putting too much leverage over the rear by my riding style? Maybe? Only time I sit on the horn of the seat is on steep hill climbs. Otherwise, I'm sitting on the back section of the seat.

I bought the big hit bike because my park had some unsanctioned jumps in it and I wanted a better bike because my 5 inch bike bottomed out on them. But they tore down the jump section when they found out about it after I bought it and thus now I have overkill for where I ride technically. But if I go to Whistler, I don't want to bottom out.

 

[DirtyMike]

Okay, I don't know what Tl;dr means... someone please explain. Here we go...

My weight is 158lbs. I'm 5'10, 33 inseam. I have my seat high and back as far as it can go to get a full leg stretch and actually I feel comfortable with the stem where it is. Maybe it's too much weight over the rear that's the issue by my riding style?

I ride in a park that the bike feels perfect in, and I do pedal it up hill. I don't stand up ever uphill, I have a habit of just sitting way up on the horn of th seat, leaning all the way over the handlebar to keep it on the ground, pretty much putting my chest on the fork tube by the stem and just trudge uphill.

The bike is about 45lbs but I'm used to it so I don't mind the weight. I actually don't have a problem taking it uphill. But I do it with the shock spring cranked up half way. It kills the pedal bob that way. I put it back where people have mentioned, and it gives me way too much pedal bob and I wind up winded end of day from all the loss of torque.

I don't downhill unless you call going fast down hill in the state park single tracks dh. But a buddy and I were discussing going to Whistler next summer and he said, "I'd get a firm spring for your fork before we'd go and maybe a 500lbs or 550 spring because if you go now as is, you're going to bottom out everywhere." Currently it's a 450lbs spring. But I think because I ride with my knees kind of grabbing the seat going down hill and while riding in the saddle, most of my body weight is over the back part of the seat, near the rear tire that maybe where I get the sagging. I think maybe I am putting too much leverage over the rear by my riding style? Maybe? Only time I sit on the horn of the seat is on steep hill climbs. Otherwise, I'm sitting on the back section of the seat.

I bought the big hit bike because my park had some unsanctioned jumps in it and I wanted a better bike because my 5 inch bike bottomed out on them. But they tore down the jump section when they found out about it after I bought it and thus now I have overkill for where I ride technically. But if I go to Whistler, I don't want to bottom out.

This statement tells me alot. You basically want to make an xc bike out of a DH bike. Your bike is going to bottom out, it happens in fact its a good thing from time to time. That bike with that heavy of a spring is over sprung. I sent you a pm already. The bike was not intended to be an efficient peddler.


Best suggestion I can give for this bike...... Have Push tune the existing rear shocks for both bikes, shorten up the stems back to a 50MM<what the bike was intended to have>, Drop the seat down, and move the seat up a bit. Listen to push with what spring they tell you to run, and ride the bike how it was meant to be setup.


For what your doing, I would get a different bike. One that is intended for the type of riding you are doing...... these two courses of action will be money best spent.


Yes your weight is too far back, yes you are too stretched out..... that has alot to do with your bottom out issues

 

[BIGHITR]

Obviously I can't sell my bikes and buy another bike, I'd take too much of a loss for what I got into both. The grey one has three rides on it. The blue one I rode all summer for two seasons.

1.) Why is shortening the stem needed? If I have a shorter stem, and push the seat up, I'll feel like my knees will be to close to my arms to the point I'd be almost hitting. The grey bike has the seat about an inch closer to the bars and I don't like riding it as much. I feel cramped.

2.) Why would my buddy suggest putting a 500 or 550lbs spring on it? He races. If I put a heavier spring on it, say 500lbs or 550 like he suggested, and left the spring tension at 1mm to 4mm tension like someone suggested, would that not provide a stiff ride that I'd prefer for uphill where I ride, but then give me full travel out west for a large drop? I'd like the same effect a firm ride spring would give on my fork but on the rear. Stiff until really needed.

3.) You PM's me about a 3 inch stroke shock same i2i. I take it that would give me a whole new set of parameters to have to deal with as to the way it would go through the stroke would seriously change from beginning to end.

BTW, thank you to you and JonKranked for trying to help me figure all this out. Although I was able to build my own bike, I'm getting the idea there is a lot more to being a bike mechanic now.

 

[DirtyMike]

Obviously I can't sell my bikes and buy another bike, I'd take too much of a loss for what I got into both. The grey one has three rides on it. The blue one I rode all summer for two seasons.

1.) Why is shortening the stem needed? If I have a shorter stem, and push the seat up, I'll feel like my knees will be to close to my arms to the point I'd be almost hitting. The grey bike has the seat about an inch closer to the bars and I don't like riding it as much. I feel cramped.

2.) Why would my buddy suggest putting a 500 or 550lbs spring on it? He races. If I put a heavier spring on it, say 500lbs or 550 like he suggested, and left the spring tension at 1mm to 4mm tension like someone suggested, would that not provide a stiff ride that I'd prefer for uphill where I ride, but then give me full travel out west for a large drop? I'd like the same effect a firm ride spring would give on my fork but on the rear. Stiff until really needed.

3.) You PM's me about a 3 inch stroke shock same i2i. I take it that would give me a whole new set of parameters to have to deal with as to the way it would go through the stroke would seriously change from beginning to end.

BTW, thank you to you and JonKranked for trying to help me figure all this out. Although I was able to build my own bike, I'm getting the idea there is a lot more to being a bike mechanic now.

Actually you pm'd me about the 3 in shock, my answer is still the same.... gotta check clearances......

The shorter stem....because the stems you have on there are dangerously long for a DH bike and the proper setup. It feels right because you are horsing it uphill.

YOur second point.... first, just because someone races doesnt mean they know what they are doing with suspension setup. No using a heavier spring does not equate to a firmer ride with full travel on drops. Proper sag equates to full travel use, and suspension setup, valving, tuning control bottom out and pedal bob<proper full travel use>.

I still stand by my first statement in anyting like this... quality or quantity.

Yes alot of what your describing is your stance/riding style/bike setup..... yes alot of what your describing is the rear shock. You could stand for a proper tune.

The rear suspension of a king fisher is a bouncer..... other than a lockout shock, there really isnt much your going to be able to do other than improper setup to stop pedal bob.


For your bike.... a seven in travel SP, with a 2.75 in travel shock<least that what I get from it>

http://www.tftunedshox.com/info/spring_calculator.aspx

According to TfT, you should be on a little over a 300 pound spring at 165 pounds for a Fox shock. Specifically 312


If you went to a 3.0 stroke shock, you would only gain .65 in of travel, and most likely the tire will be hitting the seat stay on bottom out. On top of that going with those settings on taht bike, at 165 pounds you would actually be dropping the spring weight to 287 to maintain proper sag.

 

[jonKranked]

Obviously I can't sell my bikes and buy another bike, I'd take too much of a loss for what I got into both.

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, unless you:

A) run a bike shop and sell bikes for a living

or

B) stole it


selling a bike isn't gonna make you any money, you're gonna take a loss. bikes depreciate in value, just like cars do.

 

[BIGHITR]

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, unless you:

A) run a bike shop and sell bikes for a living

or

B) stole it


selling a bike isn't gonna make you any money, you're gonna take a loss. bikes depreciate in value, just like cars do.

Obviously I'm not selling my bikes. I like the bikes, I just don't want to be bottoming out, out west.

 

[jonKranked]

Obviously I'm not selling my bikes. I like the bikes, I just don't want to be bottoming out, out west.

my question is this: what is the need for 2 bikes that are, for all intents and purposes, identical?

 

[KavuRider]

my question is this: what is the need for 2 bikes that are, for all intents and purposes, identical?

My question is...
You bought a big bike for use on some jumps that were torn down, I get that...but why did you build up a 2nd identical bike then?

Sell ONE, get a cheap trail bike, keep the other big bike for trips to Whistler and stuff. Just an idea...

 

[mandown]

2.) Why would my buddy suggest putting a 500 or 550lbs spring on it? He races. If I put a heavier spring on it, say 500lbs or 550 like he suggested, and left the spring tension at 1mm to 4mm tension like someone suggested, would that not provide a stiff ride that I'd prefer for uphill where I ride, but then give me full travel out west for a large drop? I'd like the same effect a firm ride spring would give on my fork but on the rear. Stiff until really needed.

Spring rate is not the answer to this problem, damping is. Get the right spring for your rider weight (full gear on) and then adjust the compression and rebound. If you send a shock to Push, they will ask you for the leverage of the frame and your rider weight, and they will provide suggested settings and spring rate.

You will find that springs that have too high a rate will cause you to over damp your rebound and under damp your compression to get things to perform close to the way you want. This will make it rougher in the smaller hit and stutter sections of trails, the sections that are more common than the big drops. Also, too high a spring rate will cause you to suffer in the corners.

If you are relying on spring rate to save you from bottom on bigger hits, take a look at your technique and your choice of landing transition. You can't buy skills.

Lastly, you should go to a shorter stem. Realize it will cause your riding position to shift toward the rear of the bike. You may find the need to adjust your suspension to soften the front and stiffen the rear, which may require achange in spring rate and damping.

 

[KavuRider]

You will find that springs that have too high a rate will cause you to over damp your rebound and under damp your compression to get things to perform close to the way you want. This will make it rougher in the smaller hit and stutter sections of trails, the sections that are more common than the big drops. Also, too high a spring rate will cause you to suffer in the corners.

If you are relying on spring rate to save you from bottom on bigger hits, take a look at your technique and your choice of landing transition. You can't buy skills.

This is known as the "Bender method" of shock tuning.

 

[norbar]

Obviously I'm not selling my bikes. I like the bikes, I just don't want to be bottoming out, out west.

So the bike(s) doesn't do what you want it to do but you still intend on keeping it.


You can do 2 things here: Listen to us, be happy, have fun on your bike or get ridiculed by jonKranked(and the rest of us) when you tire us with your stubborn resistance to reason. If you went on a forum to get advice - LISTEN TO THEM.

 

[DirtyMike]

Personally, your best option money wize... sell one, set the other one up properly as a DH bike.... Cut your loss's on the other...... get a nice trail bike.

I gave a quick list in my last PM, I will list it here as well.... The collective can chime in on the different bikes, or add to as well.

Bottlerocket
Remedy
Demo7
Scratch
ReignX


All of those would work great for what your looking to do.