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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,949
27,135
media blackout
This is much drier, but again is very clear in laying out the argument in a legal manner--standing, relevant laws, relevance.

"[...] in the ICIG's judgment, alleged conduct by a senior U.S. public official to seek foreign assistance or to interfere in or influence a Federal election would constitute a 'serious or flagrant problem [or] abuse' under [US Code ref.], which would also potentially expose such a U.S. public official [...] to serious national security and counterintelligence risks with respect to foreign intelligence services aware of such alleged conduct."

A-fucking-men. (Emphasis in quote is mine.)

Page 6 also notes that the ICIG has requested a "document access request and a document hold notice [...] to request access to and the preservation of any and all records related to the President's telephone call with the Ukranian President on July 25, 2019, and alleged related efforts to solicit, obtain, or receive assistance from foreign nationals in Ukraine, directly or indirectly, in connection with a Federal election."

So it's been laid down and documented that this shit is not to disappear...
did you miss these parts?

1569513141347.png


1569513202569.png
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,840
8,812
Yeah, that's another gov system. Whether or not they disobey the order and make the records disappear it has now been documented that they were doing shady shit with regard to classification and access.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,949
27,135
media blackout
Yeah, that's another gov system. Whether or not they disobey the order and make the records disappear it has now been documented that they were doing shady shit with regard to classification and access.
the takeaway is that there's *other probably illegal stuff they had already covered up*
 

Brian HCM#1

Don’t feed the troll
Sep 7, 2001
32,241
382
Bay Area, California
I would very much like to get your take on pretty much *anything* Trump says... because if you think *Biden's* cogs are slipping, it would be interesting to me what you think about Trump's cogs.
I'm 100% aware Trump has to be the worst speaker on the face of the planet. He was that well before being elected president. Biden is the lefts ONLY hope for a chance at the white house in 2020. Keep in mind, Trump is not a politician he's a very blunt, unrefined business man. At the end of the day, he won the election fair & square. The left has another shot in a year. If this whistle blower thing goes south on the democrats like the Russia scandal did, it all but guarantees a Trump win in 2020. Grab the popcorn!:popcorn:
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,807
5,640
Ottawa, Canada
I'm 100% aware Trump has to be the worst speaker on the face of the planet. He was that well before being elected president. Biden is the lefts ONLY hope for a chance at the white house in 2020. Keep in mind, Trump is not a politician he's a very blunt, unrefined business man. At the end of the day, he won the election fair & square. The left has another shot in a year. If this whistle blower thing goes south on the democrats like the Russia scandal did, it all but guarantees a Trump win in 2020. Grab the popcorn!:popcorn:
1569526155750.png
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
22,112
12,863
I have no idea where I am
I'm 100% aware Trump has to be the worst speaker on the face of the planet. He was that well before being elected president. Biden is the lefts ONLY hope for a chance at the white house in 2020. Keep in mind, Trump is not a politician he's a very blunt, unrefined business man. At the end of the day, he won the election fair & square. The left has another shot in a year. If this whistle blower thing goes south on the democrats like the Russia scandal did, it all but guarantees a Trump win in 2020. Grab the popcorn!:popcorn:
Are you forgetting or just ignoring the fact that Russia did indeed tamper with our election ?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,949
27,135
media blackout
Yes, but that's not the first time a candidate won the popular vote, by a significant margin, only to lose in the electoral college. While "fairness" is questionable, it's still legal in our system.
and interestingly, this only ever seems to happen with one of the two political parties.

edit: maybe it's just my interpretation, but i take "fair and square" to mean winning both the electoral college as well as the popular vote.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
22,112
12,863
I have no idea where I am
and interestingly, this only ever seems to happen with one of the two political parties.

edit: maybe it's just my interpretation, but i take "fair and square" to mean winning both the electoral college as well as the popular vote.
"fair and square" is not the same as lawfull.

The electoral college is antiquated and needs overhauling or outright deprecation. It clearly gives more influence to states that have less population density. And that is not fair or balanced. But it is legal.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,949
27,135
media blackout
"fair and square" is not the same as lawfull.

The electoral college is antiquated and needs overhauling or outright deprecation. It clearly gives more influence to states that have less population density. And that is not fair or balanced. But it is legal.
dude you're preaching to the quoir (and reinforcing my point).
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
67,946
14,226
In a van.... down by the river
"fair and square" is not the same as lawfull.

The electoral college is antiquated and needs overhauling or outright deprecation. It clearly gives more influence to states that have less population density. And that is not fair or balanced. But it is legal.
It is absolutely antiquated. It came about as a compromise to get the Southern states to join the union.

"At the time, a full 40 percent of the South’s population was enslaved, and the compromise famously reached by the founding fathers determined that each slave would be counted as three-fifths of a person when it came to dividing the nation into equal congressional districts. The Electoral College, in turn, provided each state with an allotment of electors equivalent to its Congressional delegation (two senators plus its number of representatives)."

So, basically, humans that COULD NOT VOTE were counted *partially* to boost the Congressional count (and subsequently the Electoral count) in states that may have otherwise refused to go along with the new union.

It needs to be done away with. It's an anachronism that, for the most part, does our country a disservice.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,911
19,242
Riding the baggage carousel.
I'm 100% aware Trump has to be the worst speaker on the face of the planet. He was that well before being elected president. Biden is the lefts ONLY hope for a chance at the white house in 2020. Keep in mind, Trump is not a politician he's a very blunt, unrefined business man. At the end of the day, he won the election fair & square. The left has another shot in a year. If this whistle blower thing goes south on the democrats like the Russia scandal did, it all but guarantees a Trump win in 2020. Grab the popcorn!:popcorn:
This post is so dense we're all going to get cancer from Hawking Radiation. :disgust1:
 
I'm 100% aware Trump has to be the worst speaker on the face of the planet. He was that well before being elected president. Biden is the lefts ONLY hope for a chance at the white house in 2020. Keep in mind, Trump is not a politician he's a very blunt, unrefined business man. At the end of the day, he won the election fair & square. The left has another shot in a year. If this whistle blower thing goes south on the democrats like the Russia scandal did, it all but guarantees a Trump win in 2020. Grab the popcorn!:popcorn:
Biden would win, as would Warren or Bernie.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
67,946
14,226
In a van.... down by the river
I need to go find it, but I recall reading a poll recently that at least 4 different current democratic candidates were polling ahead of trump. I cannot recall the 4th for sure off the top of my head.
I think more and more people are realizing that he isn't inarticulate, as @Brian HCM#1 still believes, but he actually is a fucking dolt.

Which, given the continual stream of evidence, is frankly surprising that it has taken some folks this long to realize... :disgust1:
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,212
10,740
AK
I'm 100% aware Trump has to be the worst speaker on the face of the planet. He was that well before being elected president. Biden is the lefts ONLY hope for a chance at the white house in 2020. Keep in mind, Trump is not a politician he's a very blunt, unrefined business man. At the end of the day, he won the election fair & square. The left has another shot in a year. If this whistle blower thing goes south on the democrats like the Russia scandal did, it all but guarantees a Trump win in 2020. Grab the popcorn!:popcorn:
A leader leads by example.

It goes beyond being able to talk, like not avoiding military service, not paying off hookers to silence them, not having your university sued for fraud, not having a large number of your staff/appointments fired and indicted, not selling out your fellow countrymen to a foreign power, etc.

This is no leader.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,061
22,090
Sleazattle
I'm 100% aware Trump has to be the worst speaker on the face of the planet. He was that well before being elected president. Biden is the lefts ONLY hope for a chance at the white house in 2020. Keep in mind, Trump is not a politician he's a very blunt, unrefined business man. At the end of the day, he won the election fair & square. The left has another shot in a year. If this whistle blower thing goes south on the democrats like the Russia scandal did, it all but guarantees a Trump win in 2020. Grab the popcorn!:popcorn:
I grew up outside of NYC when Trump was faking his way through real estate. He was on the news constantly. His ability to address the public was much better then. I think his current speech patterns are indicative of dementia.
 

Brian HCM#1

Don’t feed the troll
Sep 7, 2001
32,241
382
Bay Area, California
I need to go find it, but I recall reading a poll recently that at least 4 different current democratic candidates were polling ahead of trump. I cannot recall the 4th for sure off the top of my head.
Then again the polls had Hillary winning in a landslide, I don't put too much into that. At the end of the day, if Trump is not elected in 2020, I hope to God it isn't Warren or Sanders! I wish Tolsi Gabbard was stronger on the Democratic side, I really like her.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,876
7,117
borcester rhymes
I kind of hope warren wins just so you people are forced to go back into the holes you crawled out of. Bernie can fuck right off, but I'm so sick of the Trumpers that I wish you would feel the pain that 70% of the country is feeling.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,911
19,242
Riding the baggage carousel.
Then again the polls had Hillary winning in a landslide, I don't put too much into that. At the end of the day, if Trump is not elected in 2020, I hope to God it isn't Warren or Sanders! I wish Tolsi Gabbard was stronger on the Democratic side, I really like her.
Literally not a single thing in this post is correct, including your spelling of the candidate you claim to like.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,061
22,090
Sleazattle
Then again the polls had Hillary winning in a landslide, I don't put too much into that. At the end of the day, if Trump is not elected in 2020, I hope to God it isn't Warren or Sanders! I wish Tolsi Gabbard was stronger on the Democratic side, I really like her.
Polls showed her winning bigly weeks before the election. Then things trended sharply the other way, considering the lag in polls anyone with half brain could tell it was going to be close. Trend direction is just as important as the value at any point in time.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,840
8,812
Then things trended sharply the other way
Comey's press conference sure didn't help. After reading his book I do think he had good intentions, but what a boneheaded move to do...
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,911
19,242
Riding the baggage carousel.
Speaking of Rudy, please dear sweet baby @FSM, may Rudy do all the Sunday morning political shows. His mouth is the political gift that just keeps on fucking giving. Implicate some more people, you god damned ghoul. :rofl:
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,840
8,812
Slow day thus far so I'm going to take the time to dissect some of the claims/crap my Trumphead friend is making since the transcript/whistleblower complaint/ICIG letter dropped:

1) His link, via the Reddit The Donald cesspool:


My take: This is straight up wrong re Biden. Here's a nice article debunking those lies, which the Trump crowd is hoping to repeat into truth:


2 and 3)



Repetition. Casting a shadow over Biden, when again there just isn't evidence to back up that. Throw crap and hope it sticks. See fact checking above in point 1.

4)


This references: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/462422-missing-piece-to-the-ukraine-puzzle-state-departments-overture-to-rudy

That piece is an opinion fluff piece by a full-on fluffer. He's spinning what looks for all intents and purposes like Giuliani acting as a mob consigliere as something positive. I'll await the final word, but crap like this quote makes me very dubious indeed:

And Trump himself added to the dynamic by encouraging Ukraine’s leaders to work with Giuliani to surface the evidence of alleged wrongdoing that has been floating around for more than two years, my sources said.
(The alleged wrongdoing here is again the same rehashed "OMG BIDEN BAD" lies. See point 1 fact checker yet again.)

5)


This references: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/441892-ukrainian-embassy-confirms-dnc-contractor-solicited-trump-dirt-in-2016

Hey, it's that same fluffer dude! What's he selling this time? There are some lies about the origin of the Carter Page investigation (pattern of repeating lies is apparent, no?), and then the main point is that a DNC-connected person asked for information on Manafort. Manafort, as you will recall, turned out to be super dirty. Also note that being a DNC contractor is fundamentally different than being a president ABUSING HIS OFFICE and the resources of the U.S. Opposition research is ok. Abusing one's office isn't? Got that distinction yet?

6) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1175392716110401543?s=19

Some Trump tweet-video for fundraising. Not even going to even watch that shit.

7) https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/d84r5q/this_guy_leaked_the_fake_whistleblower_story/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

"This guy leaked the fake whistleblower story because he knew it was the only way the fake media would report on Biden’s corruption."

This guy being Trump with a mustache MS Painted on. Yeah, this post didn't age well what with the transcript, the whistleblower complaint, the ICIG letter saying it's credible, etc. This is just a sad mental circle-jerk by Donal fans.

8) https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

Hey, it's the same crap from point 5 rehashed! Extra points for having the tagline of the U.S. envoy to Ukraine there, the man who has resigned and fled from the investigation that's going to run his ass right over. Again, opposition research is ok. Whining about Manafort being exposed as being corrupt and on the payroll of Russian-linked politicians is fundamentally insane when one steps back and examines the facts.

9) https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/23/like-russian-collusion-ukraine-hysteria-is-pure-projection-by-media-and-democrats/

Same lies as in point 1. Again refer to the fact checking.

10)

As with Donal campaign tweets I'm not going to sit through this crap. I will note that Shep Smith has called out Tucker Carlson for being a shill repeatedly, and I imagine this is probably relevant, but again I'm not polluting my brain with Tucker Carlson saying anything.

11) https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/d941jd/thanks_for_playing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

This is a post of Donal giving a thumbs-up with a bright light photoshopped from that tiny digit. Makes my buddy sleep better at night, I guess?

12) A link to this: https://twitter.com/kimstrassel/status/1176865141574340608?s=21

Now deleted or otherwise inaccessible. Who knows why? Hate speech? Drivel? Sense of shame regained? The world shall never know...

13) A link to this: https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1176690265676861441

Similarly not accessible. I might be blocked. Twitter might be broken. But from the reference to it it's probably talking about the letter from D Senators that's covered in the last part of the fact checker link from point 1. More crap being rehashed.

14)


The letter is as in point 13, I'm guessing. Again refer to point 1 fact checking.

Let's check out this op ed, though: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/24/democrats-investigation-might-do-more-hurt-biden-than-trump/

Ah, Marc Thiessen, known idiot columnist. He rehashes the letter lie, expected. He rehashes everything from the fact checker article, it seems! Recycle lies, repeat until the base believes them. Got it.

15)


Ok, this one might be true. The sources might have been incorrect regarding Maguire threatening to resign. In no way does this make the rest of this sordid tale untrue.

16) An actual thing that my friend wrote instead of a reddit link:

This is a joke

Clinton asked Ukraine for dirt on trump/manafort. Where is the outrage? 3 Dem Senators asked for dirt on Trump. Where's the outrage? Biden actually is on record of quid pro quo with the firing of the Ukraine prosecutor. Biden and his son are clearly corrupt in their dealings with Ukraine and China. Trump had every right as the president to make sure Ukraine was investigating something shut down by biden in the context of Ukraine cleaning up their corruption.

In the end, the Dems wanted to impeach and just had to fill in the blanks. This is incredibly weak.

So here is what's going to happen.

Biden is out. No way he can be the nominee when he is on record of doing what they are accusing trump of doing. Biden is out.

Warren likely gets the nomination and Trump has much higher chance of beating Warren than Biden due to Warren's distasteful personality and radical policy positions. I also think Trump has been gaining in popularity in the black community and this will be more evident if he faces a Warren than a Biden. So this is great news for Trump.

As for impeachment. The Dems are incredibly anti-democratic. There is an election in one year. That's how this should be solved. Not by some witch hunt. This will backfire on the Dems and they will lose seats in the swing districts. Trump will not be charged in the Senate even if impeachment passes in the house.

So in conclusion: The big loser in this is Biden and the corrupt media which is has so obviously become a propaganda machine for the Dems. The big winner in this is Warren and Trump. Ultimately this will make it much easier for Trump to be re-elected and it will gain him seats in the House.

The Dems behavior is bad for our Republic, but I'm happy they are this stupid because my confidence in a Trump 2020 win is at an all time high.
Clinton paragraph refers to the DNC staffer story, which I've covered. Dem senator is last point in fact check, false. So is the Biden on record bit, also false.

"Trump had every right as the president" line is showing that he is internalizing the Donal-team's argument that the president can abuse his office to do whatever he wants. Well, we'll see about that--that's the fundamental issue with this impeachment investigation.

"Biden is out." This may well be true. He does have baggage. Whether Warren can beat Trump is an open question, but the polls suggest that she and the others will do just fine.

Re "anti-democratic" whining, election in one year: Save me the crocodile tears after McConnell held a SCOTUS seat hostage.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,840
8,812
17) Another thing:

BTW

Just read the whistle blower report. What a joke. Nothing new. Everything has been released. There was no quid pro quo.

The president has every right to seek out why the Ukrainians worked with Dems to take Trump out in 2016. He also has every right, as part of a bigger concern over corruption, make sure that an investigation was not corruptly stopped by Biden. It sure appears there was corrupt actions by Biden and Trump has every right to ask about that.

Finally, in the context of the Russian hoax which was clearly Dems at the highest level seeking dirt on political opponents all the way to using foreign agents and spying on the Trump campaign, this is so ironic and sad and ridiculous that you pretend this matters or is bad. Where is your scorn for the Clinton campaign and the Obama admin?

This is a political joke perpetuated by the propaganda arm of the Dem party. I'm confident in the American population to see through this. It was a mistake for the Dems to hang their hat on Trump trying to find out info on the corrupt dealings of Biden and his son. Those dealings are so clearly corrupt that it only highlights the corruption of the Dems and Trump's interest in "draining the swamp".
Uh huh, the whistleblower report's a pure nothingburger like Graham says, right... Same "every right" crap and rehashed Biden falsehoods. And the same DNC staffer bit, yet again! It's the gift that keeps on giving.

18) https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/trump-russia-british-intelligence/index.html

Washington (CNN)British and other European intelligence agencies intercepted communications between associates of Donald Trump and Russian officials and other Russian individuals during the campaign and passed on those communications to their US counterparts, US congressional and law enforcement and US and European intelligence sources tell CNN.
The communications were captured during routine surveillance of Russian officials and other Russians known to western intelligence. British and European intelligence agencies, including GCHQ, the British intelligence agency responsible for communications surveillance, were not proactively targeting members of the Trump team but rather picked up these communications during what's known as "incidental collection," these sources tell CNN.

[...]

"Judge Andrew Napolitano made the following statement, quote, 'Three intelligence sources have informed Fox News that President Obama went outside the chain of command (to spy on Trump). He didn't use the NSA, he didn't use the CIA ... he used GCHQ,'" Spicer told journalists.

Those comments angered British officials. After Spicer's remarks, White House officials told CNN British ambassador to the US Kim Darroch and Sir Mark Lyall Grant, national security adviser to Prime Minister Theresa May, "expressed their concerns to Spicer and Trump national security adviser H.R. McMaster" in two separate conversations.

The GCHQ also issued a statement saying: "Recent allegations made by media commentator Judge Andrew Napolitano about GCHQ being asked to conduct 'wire tapping' against the then President-elect are nonsense. They are utterly ridiculous and should be ignored."
Ok, what this proves is that Trump-Russian connections were rife. Great. Nothing sinister about the surveillance picking this up. Indeed it highlights that the narrative of Trump's team being in bed with the Russians is true. Not sure he even read this one before sending it.

19)


This one appears to be making the argument that no one who is in politics should be able to press for the impeachment of anyone else in politics. Too stupid to address further.

20)


Hey! It's that same old D Senator letter crap. Retweet if you are a Russian bot! See last point in fact checker link from point 1.

21)


Sounds terrible? Except that maybe it isn't:

Both Lutsenko and his political allies regard his trial as an act of political persecution by the regime of Viktor Yanukovych.[18][19][20] The European Union, the United States Department of State, Canada, human rights organizations, and other international organizations protested against the sentence and questioned whether it was a "fair, transparent and independent legal process".[21][22][23][24][25][26]
22) https://twitter.com/paulsperry_/status/1177418326399684608

This isn't evidence of a conspiracy with the whistleblower. This is evidence that Trump/Giuliani have been telegraphing every corrupt move they make since 2018...

23) https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/da11xo/burisma_of_hunter_biden_fame_partnered_with_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Burisma (of Hunter Biden fame) partnered with the Atlantic Council, whose board includes Evelyn Farkas (Obama DASD for Ukraine), Victor Pinchuk ($25M donor to Clinton Foundation) and .... wait for it .... George Kurtz, CEO of Crowdstrike (who blamed Russia for hacking Clinton servers)
Ok. Not sure how this has relevance to anything at all. Good work looking at websites, Donal Redditor-idiots! You've drawn a connection in your own syphilitic minds (oh wait, most of them are incels, strike that) that has no bearing to people with functioning synapses.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,911
19,242
Riding the baggage carousel.
Dude, don't legitimize the trump sub Reddit by linking it. It's been shadowbanned for a reason. Mainly, it's a bot infested, bigoted, racially prejudiced, shit show.

Frankly, you have a stronger constitution than me if you can wade through that waist deep filth.

Edit:. Bit /= bot. Thanks autocorrect. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,840
8,812
Dude, don't legitimize the trump sub Reddit by linking it. It's been shadowbanned for a reason. Mainly, it's a bit infested, bigoted, racially prejudiced, shit show.

Frankly, you have a stronger constitution than me if you can wade through that waist deep filth.
I certainly didn't browse through it. Just went through the links my buddy sent me. His latest response:

Dude

Your wapo fact check is partisan garbage

Look at the recent docent dump by John Solomon as an example of how wrong that resource you sent is

You gotta get your head out of the sand

I was right and you were wrong about Russia

I am right and you are wrong now. You have to spread out beyond your POS propaganda outlets like ny times and wapo to learn the truth

If you don’t you are the one sticking your head in the sand
He is in 100%, sliding right down (up?) the Trump-anus.