[manimal]

**I was going to post this story in the lounge but i figured some idiot would ignorantly claim free speech and it would be moved to the pawn anyway. Hint: Free speech = burning your own flag. Vandalism = burning someone elses flag (particularly one that flew over the fox hole of two soldiers killed in iraq)**

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=846181

The young man was given three choices: get turned over to the police, go one-on-one in a fight with a seasoned war veteran, or be duct-taped to a flagpole for six hours with a sign around his neck identifying his alleged crime: flag burning.

Apparently angered, the young man, who Normile did not want to name, cut the rope of the American flag flying overhead and used a cigarette lighter to set it on fire, Normile and others said.

"He'll never disrespect the flag again, I can tell you that," Normile said.
Veterans, both local and nationwide, responded to the event as accountings were posted online to the official VFW Facebook page and national Web site. Comments posted supported the act and added ideas for further punishment.

So was that a proper form of community justice? I believe it was perfect.

 

[Jim Mac]

HAHAHA! I ride out there all the time! My local newz doin' me proud!

 

[JohnE]

Go one on one with a seasoned vet...a pissed off local VFW guy. That would have ended badly...

Free speech goes out the window when you are drunk and acting dumb.

 

[jonKranked]

So manimal, according to your hint, the sign the kid wore should have said "vandal" if it was to identify his crime.

 

[MMike]

So manimal, according to your hint, the sign the kid wore should have said "vandal" if it was to identify his crime.

That's what it SHOULD say if one is to be consistent in one's thinking. But no doubt it would have said "Crimes Against Humanity".

 

[Andyman_1970]

From a purely viceral standpoint the image of Old Glory being burned pisses me off. With that said I think it's a slippery slope when we start letting "mob justice" take over.....

 

[MMike]

Messing with someone else's **** is not cool. But to go bananas purely BECAUSE it's a flag? People need to get a grip.

 

[Silver]

Messing with someone else's **** is not cool. But to go bananas purely BECAUSE it's a flag? People need to get a grip.

Americans aren't noted for their logic. Animal patriotism and irrational religious zealotry (and yes, they are connected) are right up their alley, however.

 

[Jim Mac]

If you people spent some time out in Raymertown, you'd understand...

 

[Andyman_1970]

The nation is divided, half patriots and half traitors, and no man can tell which from which. - Mark Twain

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. - Oscar Wilde

 

[bohorec]

The man had gotten angry because the bartender at the post would not serve the man because he was drunk. In anger, he went outside, took the flag down and burned it.

They should be happy that he didn't burn the whole place down

 

[manimal]

Messing with someone else's **** is not cool. But to go bananas purely BECAUSE it's a flag? People need to get a grip.

if it were a flag burning demonstration in a public venue i would assume the reaction might be different. but to take and burn the flag at the VFW, a place full of men who have bled, watched their friends die, lost body parts, and suffer from PTSD because of that flag.....not such a good idea and i think this "kid" got off fairly easily.

if you watch the news vid closely you'll hear the VFW rep say that he gave the kid a choice of dealing with the police, etc...but that he "volunteered" for being tied to a flagpole as his punishment.
i presume that, if the kid had resisted all of the options, the veteran would have just called the cops. so at least he gave him the options; most people these days just call the garbage cleanup (cops) to handle community issues instead of using the power of the community to effect change.

 

[BurlyShirley]

if it were a flag burning demonstration in a public venue i would assume the reaction might be different. but to take and burn the flag at the VFW, a place full of men who have bled, watched their friends die, lost body parts, and suffer from PTSD because of that flag.....

Don't you think that was kind of the point though? I mean, he could've just kicked over some tables or thrown a brick through the window, but he was obviously trying to do something to get under their skin.
I guess that's the problem you have when you're tied to "symbols" like flags or crosses or whatever. It must really suck to be so easily infuriated by someone who obviously isn't even worth a damn.

 

[bohorec]

Mind you, people are dying because of that flag.






(not really)

 

[MMike]

A flag is just a flag

 

[Westy]

Mind you, people are dying because of that flag.






(not really)

Yep, the service oath requires one to defend the constitution which guarantees the right to burn the flag. Your own goddammed flag at least.

 

[stevew]

I guess that's the problem you have you're tied to "symbols" like flags or crosses or whatever. It must really suck to be so easily infuriated by someone who obviously isn't even worth a damn.

or sports team?

 

[BurlyShirley]

or sports team?

Yeah, those idiots who riot at soccer games are a perfect example.

 

[stevew]

Yeah, those idiots who riot at soccer games are a perfect example.

i was thinking more of raiders fans.

 

[Silver]

Mind you, people are dying because of that flag.






(not really)

Oh, there are people dying because of that flag. We just don't give a **** about most of them because they are brown and they don't accept Jesus as their personal savior.

 

[MMike]

Don't get me wrong....the guy is a douche for messing with someone else's property. I'm sure there's some sentimental value and all that. I'd be royally pissed if someone did that to me.

It's just fine to be angry that someone messed with your stuff. But for by-standers to be angry the the aforementioned stuff was a flag....well BFD.

 

[Westy]

Don't get me wrong....the guy is a douche for messing with someone else's property. I'm sure there's some sentimental value and all that. I'd be royally pissed if someone did that to me.

It's just fine to be angry that someone messed with your stuff. But for by-standers to be angry the the aforementioned stuff was a flag....well BFD.

Oh yeah!?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Yeah, those idiots who riot at soccer games are a perfect example.

They have road flares next to polyester....wtf do they think will happen!???!?!?!

 

[JohnE]

Tis was not a free speech issue...it was a drunkenasshole issue.

 

[manimal]

A flag is just a flag

yup, for those who haven't the fortitude to stand for something. i think we've had this "flag" debate before. i guess it just comes down to this: when people see a mcdonalds sign they think of cheeseburgers; a wal-mart sign makes most people think about cheap stuff while the american flag, to most, symbolizes freedom and opportunity. i don't believe that the american flag stands for "the constitution" but instead it stands for the collective good of the people under it and the sacrifices that have been made to achieve it.
now silver will tell you that the flag stands for the oppression of brown people and all non-christians (seriously..just review his post, i think he just cut/pastes his comments from every other thread), mmike will play it down as just a piece of cloth, and even BS, a former marine turned collegiate convert, will tell you that the flag is just a meaningless "symbol".
it must be a meaningless symbol because everyone in here knew this photo was just emotional patriotic propaganda on 9/12

oh well, i guess i'll take my side with the symbol defending lemmings of america, it helps me sleep at night. this argument is like explaining downhill racing to someone who lives in florida and has never ridden out of their neighborhood on their beach cruiser.

 

[MMike]

yup, r.

Yup...being a cop was likley a good career path for you.

 

[Silver]

yup, for those who haven't the fortitude to stand for something.

Ah, the American inability to recognize that the world is inhabited by people other than themselves.

Why don't we ask some other people what the American flag represents? I'm sure there are people all over the world who see it as something other than freedom and liberty. Just go down the list of countries the US has invaded since Vietnam. Their opinions don't matter, I guess?

You stand for something all right. You just aren't aware of what it is. In current event terms, you'd be the director signing his name to the list to free Roman Polanski because he's a great filmmaker, never mind the rape of a 13 year old...you lionize the good and close your eyes to the bad, and then you claim the moral high ground on the blood soaked hill of bodies your empire is built on.

Sleep well.

(Hey look...I can summon up "Chicken Soup for the Soul" moral outrage too! Fun stuff.)

 

[sanjuro]

This makes for a funny story, but I wouldn't go to someone's home or clubhouse and mess with their stuff. Bad things are going to happen.

 

[MMike]

I hear tell that those colours don't run.....is that true?

 

[Silver]

I hear tell that those colours don't run.....is that true?

Freedom isn't free either. It's $2.99 at Wal-Mart, made in China.

 

[MMike]

Freedom isn't free either. It's $2.99 at Wal-Mart, made in China.

Ours has 15% sales tax on it....

 

[johnbryanpeters]

yup, for those who haven't the fortitude to stand for something. i think we've had this "flag" debate before. i guess it just comes down to this: when people see a mcdonalds sign they think of cheeseburgers; a wal-mart sign makes most people think about cheap stuff while the american flag, to most, symbolizes freedom and opportunity...

For me it evokes memories of the flag worshiping jackasses in the 1970s who were supporting the idiotic war in Vietnam which gave us such a library of veterans who are unable to deal with ordinary life after their experience there.

With the possible exception of our coming to the aid of Britain and Europe after Germany's devolution into madness, I'm having trouble seeing warfare as useful and I do not believe that those who have managed in some part to survive it are by definition heroes.

 

[kidwoo]

Rednecks are funny.

 

[BurlyShirley]

i don't believe that the american flag stands for "the constitution" but instead it stands for the collective good of the people under it and the sacrifices that have been made to achieve it.

Very different kinds of people assign their own values to the flag all the time... they are often not in agreement with one another, so how can you say the flag stands for something so specific? Some people look at the flag and see freedom of religion, while others look at the flag and see the banner of a christian nation. See, these are mutually exclusive ideas.... Some people look at it on the side of tank, do you really think "the collective good of the people under it and the sacrifices that have been made to achieve it" flashes through their head before they're blown to bits? I doubt it. There is no one "meaning" it possesses. It's not magic. It's just a symbol representing the US.

and even BS, a former marine turned collegiate convert, will tell you that the flag is just a meaningless "symbol"

Right, somebody with a somewhat similar background couldn't have a such a different viewpoint, so obviously Im a "collegiate convert". That freedom hating class I took really changed my worldview.

 

[kidwoo]

^See what I mean?

Hatin' on education.


Hey manimal. You know if somebody messes up a flag, it's not the same thing as robbing your house and beating up your family right?

Right?

 

[valve bouncer]

Manimal, it's interesting that you are getting your knickers in a knot over this but you haven't had anything to say on the thread where some idiot is advocating a military coup. Given that literally trampling all over the constitution is orders of magnitude worse than burning a flag I thought you'd be in that thread, tumescent with rage. You're very selective with your outrage.
Ftr, if those vets had really wanted to make that idiot suffer they should have tied him and made him listen to their war stories all day.

 

[JohnE]

Ftr, if those vets had really wanted to make that idiot suffer they should have tied him and made him listen to their war stories all day.

Hey...I wanna be one of those old coots one day...I look forward to losing my mind.

Isnt it ironic that the symbol of your right to burn a flag is...the flag itself? Its almost as if it is asking to be torched. Personally, I support asshats' right to be asshats. It is nice to know that this guy was not beheaded in the town square. It could of been alot worse for him.

That being said, he was still a drunken idiot who had a piss fit over not being served at the bah.

 

[kidwoo]

That being said, he was still a drunken idiot who had a piss fit over not being served at the bah.

Yeah I was kinda hoping for the 'one on one' option.

I doubt I'd ever go through the trouble of burning a flag or anything but if all of a sudden I came to with a burning flag at my feet and a lighter in my hand........I'd probably at least go with that option. Duct tape hurts like a bitch when it's been on your skin for a while in any significant quantity.

 

[MMike]

You're very selective with your outrage.
.

That would required deeper and somewhat more critical thinking. That would leave him vulnerable to being mistaken for an intellectual elite.

 

[MMike]

Im a "collegiate convert". That freedom hating class I took really changed my worldview.

ten years from now, maimal's kid says,

"Paaa....i want to go to college."
"NOOOOOOOO!!!! Why couldn't you have been gay instead?"