Don't burn the VFW flag....
- Thread starter manimal
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Glad that guy tied him up.. It worked out.
To heck with duct tape. I'd have just got that wax on a sheet stuff and had some man grooming. Make him look like Powder.
Bottom line is someone tried to press a group of people, offend them, spite them and disgrace their belief system by destroying personal property on private grounds.
A group of men who so many Americans view as uneducated trained killers proved the stereotype wrong. Rather than react violently and physically in a manner that people would expect of them, they resolved to provide an opportunity to resolve conflict in a non-violent manner. They gave their assailant choices of being prosecuted by the legal system he was violating, direct physical confrontation with people he obviously wanted to offend and/or assault, or allow them to make a visual demonstration of their disapproval in a similar manner to his own.
Pretty forward thinking and a masterful way of dealing with an issue from a group of people society doesn't give much credit to.
Oh, and I like to dish out a beat down rather than resolve a conflict verbally so I'm a huge fan of Option 2.
Bottom line is someone tried to press a group of people, offend them, spite them and disgrace their belief system by destroying personal property on private grounds.
A group of men who so many Americans view as uneducated trained killers proved the stereotype wrong. Rather than react violently and physically in a manner that people would expect of them, they resolved to provide an opportunity to resolve conflict in a non-violent manner. They gave their assailant choices of being prosecuted by the legal system he was violating, direct physical confrontation with people he obviously wanted to offend and/or assault, or allow them to make a visual demonstration of their disapproval in a similar manner to his own.
Pretty forward thinking and a masterful way of dealing with an issue from a group of people society doesn't give much credit to.
Oh, and I like to dish out a beat down rather than resolve a conflict verbally so I'm a huge fan of Option 2.
How so? I don't think anyone here thinks that the guy wasn't a total douche.
But I thought the "heroes" were out there defending the constitution of the U.S of A. Are the words "duct tape" anywhere in the constitution?
I thought taking the law into your own hands was frowned upon. Or only in certain cases? (Note the irony of this being posted by a cop no less).
(And yes..I am being deliberately obtuse here for effect. But still.....c'mon...
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+1 Very well put. I am with Manimal on this one, the vets in our country are "heros" and all too often forgoten after the war is over, not by just the masses but by our own government. If you are living in a country where you have freedoms such as right to assemble, free speech, etc. If you have any of these rights, then you should find the closest veteran and thank him regardless of what you think about the war he was in to help get and keep those rights for you. Everyone can have their own opinion and thats fine but remember who secured that right for you!
he·ro (hîr)
n. pl. he·roes
1. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life:
The English?
I mean they did take care of those pesky French from taking over during the 100 Year War, amongst a bag-full of others. Could you imagine if this country was founded on mostly French culture and principal?
You're right. Without the Anglo influence that's been imprinted on this country, we'd never be where we are today. God save the Queen!
Ok, explain to me how Vietnam, Bosnia, Grenada, Panama, Iraq (both times) helped secure my constitutional rights.
Really...run with it. I'm intensely interested.
Really...run with it. I'm intensely interested.
This absolutely fvcking floors me.
I absolutely cannot, even in the wildest reaches of my imagination, begin to fathom how receiving a college education can be turned around as a Bad Thing.
I was reading a pretty entertaining book last week, Idiot America by Charlie Pierce and stumbled across a quote in it where a pastor was speaking out, trying to convince a school board that intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution. The pastor said, "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture."
The fact that so many on the right try to disdain the highly educated is really troubling to me.
It's a similar doctrine to people voting for the presidential candidate with whom that they feel they can most identify. Wouldn't you WANT your president to be WAY WAY smarter than you?
Nobody likes the kid that aces the differential equations exam and f's up the bell curve for the rest of us.
i have no problem with college, i have a degree myself, there's just a lot of extreme left propaganda being force fed in the classroom; or maybe that was just because i went to a private university, run by the quakers, and considered the Berkeley of the east?
i actually had a blast, at times, arguing with professors to the point that they cut me off because the impressionable 18 year old kids in the class began to raise the bs flag on the garbage the professor was spewing.and BS, i should have been more specific on peoples perception of the flag, i mean the american peoples perception. we are, after all, the united states of america, not the north american sector of the EU.
It really shouldn't surprise you that the sect of america that becomes marginalized when people are more educated have waged a pretty successful campaign that demonizes that education framework. Manimal is just playing along.
Are you seriously that dense to not realize the power of community punishment over policing? everyone in here is always crying, "police state" and harping on how we have militarized law enforcement, yet, now you claim that a cop promoting community resolution of the crime, with legal action as an option, is "taking the law into your own hands?"
damn..you can't have it both ways, pick a standard and stick with it.
A large portion of my family has not been to college, which is fine, they are are doing well for themselves, so good for them.
They are all pretty conservative and a handful have been in the military.
They also think that I am being indoctrinated by the liberal machine and that my education is pretty much worthless.
My major is para medicine...So
Yeah but it's hippy liberal medicine.
Probably teaching you to offer your services to poor black people.
And by services, I mean herbal teas.
My father didn't want me to go to college for some reason. He did everything he could to prevent it. In a way it was good for me because I had to bust my ass to get scholarships and save money for tuition. I think it gave me a better work ethic but 15 years down the road I realize that I should have had much higher aspirations in life. Encouragement with no financial support would have been nice.
I do often think of you as a failure westy.
I would take this as an admission of ignorance and run with it. But that's just me.
Manimal, what are your sources to back this up? Or is it just speculation based on your own experiences? I spent 5 years in college, and not once did I have "extreme left propaganda" force fed to me. I didn't have and "extreme right" propaganda force fed to me either. In fact, there was no "force feeding" of propaganda of any kind.i have no problem with college, i have a degree myself, there's just a lot of extreme left propaganda being force fed in the classroom; or maybe that was just because i went to a private university, run by the quakers, and considered the Berkeley of the east?
and BS, i should have been more specific on peoples perception of the flag, i mean the american peoples perception. we are, after all, the united states of america, not the north american sector of the EU.
I would take this as an admission of ignorance and run with it. But that's just me.
Manimal, what are your sources to back this up? Or is it just speculation based on your own experiences? I spent 5 years in college, and not once did I have "extreme left propaganda" force fed to me. I didn't have and "extreme right" propaganda force fed to me either. In fact, there was no "force feeding" of propaganda of any kind.
I never had any propaganda pushed on me either. Of course some people consider "science" as lefty propaganda. If E=MC^2 didn't help the military kill brown people I'm sure it would be considered as a heathen battle cry.
The closest thing I had to propaganda pushed on me was the simple recognition that most of my professors tended towards the liberal side. Actually, I'd say that the few professors who even discussed anything heavily political in the classroom were careful to expose multiple facets of the issues. I had a pretty conservative economics professor who was basically a free market cheerleader, and he pushed a lot more slanted "propaganda" than any other professor I ever had.
i must admit that my bias is based on personal experience and i think my choice of college may have had something to do with it as i mentioned it in my post
My college experience was as an adult, already in my career with a hefty dose of life experience obtained primarily through military travels, parenting, and all types of odd jobs. i was working in my current profession while attending said college and i would often have to go to class in uniform. my college experience is probably vastly different than that of an 18 year old kid fresh out of high school...i was often referred to as a fascist in and out of the classroom simply because of my military and police background (by students), i was docked percentage points on an assignment in my "understanding oppressive systems" class for not going to and supporting an on campus pro-gay rally ON MY DAY OFF. I was told by a professor, 1 month after the virginia tech shootings, that i was off my rocker and that i was paranoid fear monger for wanting to carry my gun on campus in uniform (department policy) , and i was required to write a paper on how i could plan and implement a corporate lesson plan on accommodating the special needs of transgendered/transexuals in the work force...i don't think the professor liked my response
i have several riding friends that i have watched go away to state college and return as "activist" singing the praises of che gueverra, much to the disdain of their hard working, educated,"conservative" parents who paid for their education.
so yes, i believe everyone who has the means should go to college because it shows an ability to follow through with a task (not referring to technical professions ie: dr's, engineers, etc..) but i don't believe a college campus should be the place for the radical activism and political campaigning that i was forced to endure.
...and if i ever hear another 19 year old punk complain about a weekend homework/paper assignment i think i'm going to snap. if i can maintain a full time class load, 3 kids, 60+ hours of work per week, AND still maintain a 3.8 gpa...they need to STFU. (end rant
)i guess that's what i get for going to a liberal arts college...but it was close by and accepted the GI bill
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i was docked percentage points on an assignment in my "understanding oppressive systems" class for not going to and supporting an on campus pro-gay rally ON MY DAY OFF. I was told by a professor, 1 month after the virginia tech shootings, that i was off my rocker and that i was paranoid fear monger for wanting to carry my gun on campus in uniform (department policy) , and i was required to write a paper on how i could plan and implement a corporate lesson plan on accommodating the special needs of transgendered/transexuals in the work force...i don't think the professor liked my response
And this why you'll continue to catch shlt. YOU DIDN'T COMPLETE ASSIGNMENTS AS PERSCRIBED. And then you cry indoctrination. For fvck's sake, I had to write an essay debunking evolution in a biology class. It's a way to test your own understanding. It's an excercise, not a policy. You expose yourself to various scenarios to learn about the world. Crazy concept I know.
And your inability to do so is why you got docked grades. 'oh no the little libbies are comin' to get me'
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I had that in a philosophy of mind class. We had to take a position on AI and write down the thesis for our papers. Handed it in, and then the professor said, "Take this thesis and argue the opposite position."
I ended up convincing myself about 5 years later that the opposite position was the correct one...
Critical thinking......scary stuff.....challenging your beliefs! Heresy!
Goes back to the Kirk Cameron thing. He complained that people are going into college with strong faith and then emerging on the other side not believing anymore......BECAUSE THEY WERE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHALLENGE THEIR BELIEFS.
This is why the church (and various other bourgeoisie) wanted to keep the masses uneducated.
But now it seems the uneducated are taking pride in their ignorance.
This is why post secondary education needs to be subsidized by the gov't. More people need to go to college.
Goes back to the Kirk Cameron thing. He complained that people are going into college with strong faith and then emerging on the other side not believing anymore......BECAUSE THEY WERE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHALLENGE THEIR BELIEFS.
This is why the church (and various other bourgeoisie) wanted to keep the masses uneducated.
But now it seems the uneducated are taking pride in their ignorance.
This is why post secondary education needs to be subsidized by the gov't. More people need to go to college.
I had instructors at Northeastern who were opinionated to the point of bias, but it was my choice to take the courses they offered. Their opinion did not necessarily convert me to their viewpoint, and I learned by taking the courses.
Same kind of weak minded folk who might have come back singing the praises of Jesus or Mohammed, I presume? Some get over it, some don't.
I guess it is time for me to chime in.
Despite my liberal surroundings, I think Manimal's observations and criticisms are mostly accurate.
Ultimately, forcing any value system onto other people, even one that you think is enlightened, is wrong.
I remember the stories about your professor and her abject horror at the sight of an armed police officer in her classroom. Obviously she is wrong, and ultimately rather closeminded.
But I will make this point: what's the harm in playing along?
Frankly, I do think most of the United States is closeminded towards gays. I don't mean you or anyone else is going to pummel the first fag you see, but tolerance is not acceptance, and I hope everyone here understands the difference.
I know Manimal is a man cut from a different cloth, and I hope that sounds like a compliment, because it is. However, my and my family's life in San Francisco is as fascinating and important as a North Carolina Police Officer.
Despite my liberal surroundings, I think Manimal's observations and criticisms are mostly accurate.
Ultimately, forcing any value system onto other people, even one that you think is enlightened, is wrong.
I remember the stories about your professor and her abject horror at the sight of an armed police officer in her classroom. Obviously she is wrong, and ultimately rather closeminded.
But I will make this point: what's the harm in playing along?
Frankly, I do think most of the United States is closeminded towards gays. I don't mean you or anyone else is going to pummel the first fag you see, but tolerance is not acceptance, and I hope everyone here understands the difference.
I know Manimal is a man cut from a different cloth, and I hope that sounds like a compliment, because it is. However, my and my family's life in San Francisco is as fascinating and important as a North Carolina Police Officer.
you'd know....homo
as long as they are female and beautiful....no one has a problem with it.
I had a couple professors who were outwardly "liberal" I guess. One history prof and a feminist english professor come to mind, but most of my education was related to biology, chemistry and math, so there really wasn't much room political leanings in the classroom. I don't know why you'd be any less likely to meet such people in a high school classroom or out on the street though. I guess if you're going for some degree in the social sciences or the arts, that kind of thing could be an issue.
I think the real issue for conservatives, is that people learn to think critically, with their minds instead of using their "gut" which is, of course, a threat to dogmatic religious teachings.
I think the real issue for conservatives, is that people learn to think critically, with their minds instead of using their "gut" which is, of course, a threat to dogmatic religious teachings.
I only had one course, intro English, that veered into inappropriate political comment, taught by a professor who was clearly far left and wanted to move her students' political dial. It was obvious, and we got into numerous in-class arguments on issues ranging from vegetarianism/veganism to racism.
Despite that, I didn't see anyone being indoctrinated. I listened to a lot of kids craft their message to her approval, but it was obviously for the grade/ass-kissing, not much passionate belief in the message.
So that's one class out of 4 years of liberal arts that included philosophy, government, economics, and art.
I do think *campus environments and college administrations* lend themselves to some odd behaviors and overly PC-ish norms, but it's less about political indoctrination (subtle, advertent or otherwise) than a sometimes miguided search for creating a perfect space for learning and maturing that can be insulating instead of educational. But this is hardly indoctrination... the kids that love it may come out of school left, but there are plenty of kids that hate it and come out of school to the right. If anything these overly PC efforts are creating the young right.
Despite that, I didn't see anyone being indoctrinated. I listened to a lot of kids craft their message to her approval, but it was obviously for the grade/ass-kissing, not much passionate belief in the message.
So that's one class out of 4 years of liberal arts that included philosophy, government, economics, and art.
I do think *campus environments and college administrations* lend themselves to some odd behaviors and overly PC-ish norms, but it's less about political indoctrination (subtle, advertent or otherwise) than a sometimes miguided search for creating a perfect space for learning and maturing that can be insulating instead of educational. But this is hardly indoctrination... the kids that love it may come out of school left, but there are plenty of kids that hate it and come out of school to the right. If anything these overly PC efforts are creating the young right.
Of course.
When he's crying indoctrination, though, and gives examples like this:
...it's absurd.
I went to college as an adult as well. I worked full time and went to school 18-20 credits per semester. Guess what? I had to attend events on my days off as well. Gee, imagine that, you have to follow a professor's assignments and get penalized if you don't. I never would have guessed.
I went to a presentation that the aforementioned conservative economics professor demanded we go to. It turned out to be a thinly veiled exercise in demonstrating how the liberals have screwed up the economy. Did I agree with it? No. Did I have to take my own personal time and go to see it? Yes. Would I think it was wrong for the professor to dock me points because I didn't do the assignment? Well, gosh, let me consider that...
Or suggesting that the professor didn't like his response on the transgendered lesson plan, with a big smile at the end? I'm giving 10:1 odds that he wrote a smart-ass response that missed the target of the assignment by a mile, and is now blaming it on his professor not being a conservative.
I wrote at least 3 papers in school that were deliberately against what I knew to be accepted responses. I made sure, though, in every one, to craft them to the assignment and be respectful in my responses. Not one got less than an A, and in two the professors noted at the end that they thoroughly disagreed with my conclusions but my actual writing was on-target.
I think the complaints of indoctrination are often set forth by people who cling so tightly to their own viewpoints that simple exposure to an opposing one is scary and offensive, and cause for complaint.
Can I get an Amen!!!
Well, I dunno how much the "and supporting" portion of his post was editorializing, but if a professor is requiring you to attend an event in order to provide public support for particular political agenda--rather than simply having to observe/report/interview at said event--that's pretty ****ed up.
I only had one bad experience with a professor anywhere near that vein, and it was simply that he didn't accept a particular viewpoint as valid. It was a "philosophy of war and peace" class, and he predicated it by saying that he didn't believe there was any possible moral justification for war, his class was predicated on it, and if you wanted to argue with him about it you were going to be wrong. I just withdrew from the class, along with about half of the other people there on the first day. Probably should have written a note to the head of the department, but was too busy drinking beer after choosing a replacement course.
Universities are like anything else. There are different groups and sub-groups with different attitudes, and people gravitate towards a particular place because of personal likes/dislikes. In college, people tend towards a place because they really find the environment sympathetic to their cultural/political worldview, or because they're deliberately contrarian.
Education is good. I'm shocked and scared that adults still live in the "anti-smart kids" world of the 3d grade.
But then again, I tried to read "The Age of American Unreason" and found it so smug and detached from historical reality that I had to put that down, too.
While I agree with BV's point that you're at the mercy of the prof.........it was that way in the early 90's when I was in school and is certainly the rule now. You have to have your BS filter in place and helps one hone their critical thinking skills.
I too worked 60+ hours a week (in a battery factory no less, on the production floor making the batteries not in an office) while I was in college as well (12-15 credit hours a semester). If there's one thing I learned about most of my non degree prof's is that they were "professional educators" and were grossly out of touch with how life functioned outside the environment of the university. When my prof's would learn that I worked full time at the local battery factory I was either ridiculed for doing such demeaning labor, or encouraged to quit my job to focus on my studies (graduated with a 3.5). When I explained to them that I had to have my job to pay for my school they looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language....and if i ever hear another 19 year old punk complain about a weekend homework/paper assignment i think i'm going to snap. if i can maintain a full time class load, 3 kids, 60+ hours of work per week, AND still maintain a 3.8 gpa...they need to STFU. (end rant
I can't say what happened in Manimal's class or how politics, bias, or personality affected his grade.
All I know is that hearing what someone else has to say is not exactly nails-in-the-eyes.
I really wanted to go to a Tea Party, even though I disagree with almost everything they stand for. Of course, I wanted to disrupt the protest...
Manimal should have arrived in uniform with a few of his police friends, and started ticketing people.