[Jeremy R]

Thats not entirely true..
The weight on your body is a much smaller factor on the ride then the weight on your bike.
A lighter spring on your bike will mean a lower center of gravity for starters.
Then there's the handling factor when pulling your bike up and down.
Also the weight of the bike will determin how fast it will accelerate and how quick it will slow down for a corner, two things that will definitly make you faster in the end.
Saving weight is pretty expensive and I think it only really pays of if you go the whole 9 yards meaning you should save weight on as much as you can.
It also means to stay in shape and all, maybee even get some lighter DH gear. I found FOX to be particularly heavy. The 180° shorts were like twice the weight of the shorts I have now.
Wether its worth the money is another question. I think it all depends on your budget and if YOU think its worth it.
I think a light DH bike has a huge advantage over a heavy one but the next guy might prefer his bike burly and a little more heavy.

I agree. I like my bikes light. That is why I bought the ti spring to begin with.
But IMO, its not really worth it. It saves you a couple of hundred grams in a place that you cannot feel. The COG on my DHR is already low. Most people would be better off spending the money on lighter wheels, cranks, etc... as opposed to a ti shock spring.

 

[nickaziz]

sooo, they arn't bigger then the 888s lowers....um 2 different designs here.

Um. The most fore-aft flex occurs nearest the crown. We were disucssing the stiffness of different forks' uppers.

 

[Curb Hucker]

The new 2.0s are very stiff. Mine tied my friends 888 in the between the legs test. There are a couple of reasons the '05s are so stiff. They do have the knurled crowns which really helps prevent twisting in a crash, but also helps towards torsional stiffness. The crowns have 3 6mm pinchbolts on the lower crowns, and 2 6mm pinchbolts up top. The clamping area is larger than a shiver or a dorado. The axle works great too, its threaded into the non-driveside and the part on the driveside that gets clamped has a very tight tolerance (not to mention you can put some decient torque on the bolts). But the big thing that makes this thing stiff is that its got about 9" of overlap at 0" of sag. Its also got 4 bushings to go with that 9" of internal stanchion. This year everything has been sealed up into the stanchions. The damper is sealed up in the right leg (much like a rear shock) and the springs are all sealed off (with o-rings) inside of the left leg. This helps cut weight and lets the fork have an air assist feature. This year you can run it with a grease lube system, or semi-bath. It weighs 7.7lbs

 

[kidwoo]

blah blah blah...WB gives me free stickers blah blah blah

Who gives a sh!t. Where's the DHR air fork?????????? neaky:

 

[Shmoe]

Well, it seems like the X-works is no more. Even Giant downspeced their team bike this year to a regular dorado.

On paper, the new Fox DH fork seems to be very nice. A little expensive, But ill pay for quality. It will be interesting to see if they live up to the hype.

 

[binary visions]

It saves you a couple of hundred grams in a place that you cannot feel. The COG on my DHR is already low. Most people would be better off spending the money on lighter wheels, cranks, etc... as opposed to a ti shock spring.

While it is true that the wheels would be a better place to shave weight, there is basically no other place on the bike where you can knock a couple hundred grams off the weight of your bike while sacrificing absolutely nothing in terms of durability - buying a Ti spring is like having a little fairy sprinkle pixie dust on your frame to knock some weight off with no difference in performance...

Justification of the big chunk of cash you lay out is, of course, in the eye of the beerholder.

 

[Jeremy R]

While it is true that the wheels would be a better place to shave weight, there is basically no other place on the bike where you can knock a couple hundred grams off the weight of your bike while sacrificing absolutely nothing in terms of durability - buying a Ti spring is like having a little fairy sprinkle pixie dust on your frame to knock some weight off with no difference in performance...

Justification of the big chunk of cash you lay out is, of course, in the eye of the beerholder.

Oh yeah, if money was no object, I would have them everywhere. It does knock a 1/2 pound off easy. Maybe I am just downplaying it, because I know I am not buying one this year. Gotta put my money towards a Tacoma.
What good is a light DH bike, if ya can't get up the hill to use it.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Who gives a sh!t. Where's the DHR air fork?????????? neaky:

Hey Kevin :nuts: I get alot more than free stickers

You should see finalized prototypes at Sea Otter, you might even get to take a parking lot test on one. But if you can I'm gonna be riding pacifica on April 13th with Brian, come by to ride (and try out my fork)

 

[bizutch]

I geeked on grams to see what kind of weight savings I was getting on my bike this year from last. Carbon bar upgraded from aluminum, DoubleXC flush upgraded over PIG 1.5 to 1 1/8", Mallet M(almost 100 grams lighter than any other DH clipless)upgarded from Shimano 646, Ti saddle upgraded from CroMo, 32 hole rear instead of 36 hole...and actually cutting my seatpost to the minimum...right around 1 pound. If I were paying retail versus retail for all of these upgrades, the "dollars per gram" benefit would get blown out of the water when compared to just adding a Ti spring.
When you do the math, adding a Ti spring, if I could get over the fear of it, would be a HUGE instant weight savings over a coil spring and cost less "dollars per gram".

 

[kidwoo]

Hey Kevin :nuts: I get alot more than free stickers

You should see finalized prototypes at Sea Otter, you might even get to take a parking lot test on one. But if you can I'm gonna be riding pacifica on April 13th with Brian, come by to ride (and try out my fork)

Oh yeah that's just next door.......

That's a definite maybe.

See you at northstar.

 

[LOOnatic]

As far as i know ti springs have a greater memory than steel meaning that it does not fatigue as fast thus yielding a more consistant spring rate over time.

Okay enough geek talk.
I purchased a ti spring from avalanche (i think supplied bt RCS) and have found the ride lives up to the hype.
IMO it tracks better .
Remember that a spring is a moving part so any weight saved has a multiplier effect .
Just like reducing wheel weight because it is reciprocating weight.
It is expensive and as much as i doubted its usefulness i have found a ti spring on higher travel bikes to really make a difference.
The only downside i see is cost and limited spingrate selection.

 

[Curb Hucker]

See you at northstar.

Yup, Im gonna be there June 24-26th, concluding my 2 and a half week long trip to Moab, Vrigin, and Park City

 

[kidwoo]

Yup, Im gonna be there June 24-26th, concluding my 2 and a half week long trip to Moab, Vrigin, and Park City

Moab and Virgin in June? Eeesh

Sounds like a fun trip though.

See you there. Try to keep the same bike that long mmkay? I wanna ride that F1.

 

[zedro]

I purchased a ti spring from avalanche (i think supplied bt RCS) and have found the ride lives up to the hype.
IMO it tracks better .
Remember that a spring is a moving part so any weight saved has a multiplier effect .

i have a feeling maybe its the wider coil spacing that may be causing a more progressive coil effect which explains the difference in feel people talk about. Remember the coils of the spring dont actually displace that much and such a small inertial difference would be insignificant i think. Getting muddy tires would have a bigger impact for instance.

Okay enough geek talk.

ha too late!

 

[Kevin]

I purchased a ti spring from avalanche (i think supplied bt RCS) and have found the ride lives up to the hype.
IMO it tracks better .
Remember that a spring is a moving part so any weight saved has a multiplier effect .

The advantage of a Ti spring is only in the weight.
Better response because of the lower weight in a spring is only theoretical because its just to low to notice.
In terms of wheels it is true but thats mainly because its rotating weight and rotating weight is a lot more difficult to get going or to slow down.
Maybee you noticed a difference because of another spring rate or a different setting for your shock?

 

[Alloy]

Which brings me back to my lefty question........anybody know how they do that? James' idea sounds like it's along the same lines.

I'm pretty sure the Lefty uses square stanchions with roller bearings instead of bushings. Pretty neat... I don't know if the crowns are any different. I've never actually seen one. I've heard they work very well though.

About stiffness, considering in order for a normal fork to flex while turning the stanchions have to slide lateral to the bushings, square stanchions would make a extremely stiff fork as there would no sliding.

Edit: But then again who needs a fork that stiff, I’m happy with my 888 and can't imagine anything so substantially better that would warrant me changing.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Try to keep the same bike that long mmkay? I wanna ride that F1.

Too bad for you, it gets sold right before i leave for Deer Valley. Thats where I get to pick up my new F1 with a Ti front triangle.

 

[kidwoo]

Too bad for you, it gets sold right before i leave for Deer Valley. Thats where I get to pick up my new F1 with a Ti front triangle.

Can I touch it?

Same bike but with a lighter front end? I still wanna see it.

 

[kidwoo]

I'm pretty sure the Lefty uses square stanchions with roller bearings instead of bushings. Pretty neat... I don't know if the crowns are any different. I've never actually seen one. I've heard they work very well though.

About stiffness, considering in order for a normal fork to flex while turning the stanchions have to slide lateral to the bushings, square stanchions would make a extremely stiff fork as there would no sliding.

Edit: But then again who needs a fork that stiff, I’m happy with my 888 and can't imagine anything so substantially better that would warrant me changing.

I don't think they're square from what I've seen but they do use needle bearings instead of bushings.

I like my stifferama 888 too but what if.............

It would be like riding a monster T but without the stupid stupid.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Can I touch it?

Same bike but with a lighter front end? I still wanna see it.

Only after you go through one of those sterilizing chambers

Nope, the frame will weight .1lbs heavier actually. The use of Ti in this application is really the first of its kind. On almost all Ti frames the metal is sued to save weight. On this new F1, Ti is being used for its superior impact damping properties when compared to Al. By not trying to use Ti to acheive low weight, but rather a Chromoly like feel you will end up with the desired feel, and an even stronger frame than its Al counterpart.

 

[OGRipper]

Too bad for you, it gets sold right before i leave for Deer Valley. Thats where I get to pick up my new F1 with a Ti front triangle.

Holy blingdiggidity!! If you are for real that will be pimp.

But if your existing bike works, I'd suggest you wait 'til after your trip to sell your rig.

 

[Zark]

Ti is being used for its superior impact damping properties when compared to Al. By not trying to use Ti to acheive low weight, but rather a Chromoly like feel you will end up with the desired feel, and an even stronger frame than its Al counterpart.

Yeah, whats the fricken point of that on a DH bike with a bunch of travel? "Feel"? What do you feel other than the shock going up and down? If this were a HT I'd see the point, but a DH bike

It sounds like a great way to part a fool and his money though, have fun with that. neaky:

 

[joelsman]

cannondale had a fork that had square stanctions and both left and right legs back in 97-98, it came on there 4in front and rear freeride bike, it was heavy and not that smooth. it was called the moto fr. http://ppan.club.fr/sv1000fr.html

 

[zedro]

cannondale had a fork that had square stanctions and both left and right legs back in 97-98, it came on there 4in front and rear freeride bike, it was heavy and not that smooth. it was called the moto fr. http://ppan.club.fr/sv1000fr.html

yeah those needle bearings gave it a rough feel, like a vibration, although i never got some ride time.

 

[kidwoo]

cannondale had a fork that had square stanctions and both left and right legs back in 97-98, it came on there 4in front and rear freeride bike, it was heavy and not that smooth. it was called the moto fr. http://ppan.club.fr/sv1000fr.html

I remember that bike. I didn't think it had square stanchions though. did it change tubing underneath the clamped part?

 

[zedro]

I remember that bike. I didn't think it had square stanchions though. did it change tubing underneath the clamped part?

i think its the same for the lefty, its just all hidden and looks like a nornal fork. All basic Headshock technology

 

[Curb Hucker]

Holy blingdiggidity!! If you are for real that will be pimp.

But if your existing bike works, I'd suggest you wait 'til after your trip to sell your rig.

Yes it is for real. As of now It would be make more sence to sell the current F1 to get the Ti one in June. My frame will be new enough then I could sell it for the same price that I'll be paying for this Ti one. And if I sell it then I wont have to get the new one shipped because I'd be picking it up in person.

 

[koffee]

Here's the suspention solution!AVALANCHE neaky:

 

[UiUiUiUi]

Too bad for you, it gets sold right before i leave for Deer Valley. Thats where I get to pick up my new F1 with a Ti front triangle.

Hey Don you lost our bet.

you will replace your frame before next december.

yay for me!!!

 

[Curb Hucker]

Hey Don you lost our bet.

you will replace your frame before next december.

yay for me!!!

This is a special circumstance, and hey, its for another F1 ink:

 

[Enduro]

Is a spring sprung or unsprung weight?

 

[UiUiUiUi]

This is a special circumstance, and hey, its for another F1 ink:

nope its a new frame

the bet was the same frame until december 05
you should have broken the Al F1.

 

[bizutch]

Is a spring sprung or unsprung weight?

the sad part is ...somebody is gonna answer this!

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Yes it is for real. As of now It would be make more sence to sell the current F1 to get the Ti one in June. My frame will be new enough then I could sell it for the same price that I'll be paying for this Ti one. And if I sell it then I wont have to get the new one shipped because I'd be picking it up in person.

LOL, Don you crack me up. Yo haven't even ridden this one off road, then again it will probably never see the dirt anyways. It does make it easier to sell "as new"

 

[zedro]

the sad part is ...somebody is gonna answer this!

must....resist......answer.....arrrgggghhhhhhhhh(fizzle)

 

[66]

This year you can run it with a grease lube system, or semi-bath. It weighs 7.7lbs

My is 8.55 out of the box. Do i need to change the oil to grease to safe that weight?

Oh yeah, best fork I have ever been on.