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Downhillzone in Seattle

Mtbike

Monkey
Jul 28, 2004
234
0
Indiana
This past July I shipped my bike through UPS from Chicago to Seattle(on my way to Whistler) and my 1998 Super 8 frame was damaged in shipping. I contacted Darren at Downhillzone because a friend my mine told me it was a good shop and independently owned. I met with Darren who seemed at the time to be a great guy. But one of his main concerns was he would do an estimate from me and I would take the money and run and not use any of his services. I assured him I was a big fan of indepent bike shops and would support him for his help. He did up an estimate for a replacement frame, which in this case would have been a Bullit. The estimate included the cost of the replacement frame, taxes, and a fee for the Downhillzone to reassemble the new bike (I had taken all the parts off the frame with the exception of the headset and cranks).

I contacted UPS and they sent a claims person out to Downhillzone and Darren showed the individual the frame and obviously helped in convincing the claims person that the frame had to be replaced.

Eight weeks later I recieved a check in the mail from UPS for the amount that was on estimate. I was stoked!!!!! During the wait to see if UPS would pay my claim my plans had changed and I didn't want to purchase a new frame at the end of the season. I contacted Darren and told him my plans had changed and I would not be purchasing a frame through his shop, but I would like to compensate him for his help. He and I agreed on an amount and I asked if he would package up my frame and remaining parts(that my buddy was holding onto)and I would set up a time for UPS to pick up the stuff from the Downhillzone.

A 2 weeks after Darren and I spoke my buddy goes into Downhillzone and gives Darren a check for $218 and a box of the remaining parts. A couple days later I send UPS out to pick up the box and a week later the box shows up at my house. The front hube was sticking out of the side of the box. The hub was obviously dragged along every inch of UPS shipping facility. I was pissed! So here is the email conversation I am haveing with Darren as I type this....

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:37 AM
To: info@downhillzone.com
Subject: Darren---Nice pack job!!!!!!!!!


So I received my bike parts today. And I have to say I don’t know what I bothered paying you for? I gave you $218 to speak with a UPS claims person and pack my bike parts in a box and I receive the box and the front hub is sticking out the side of the box. This is kind of odd since the entire reason I was in this predicament was because of a shipping problem.


I am truly disappointed. Darren, I would think if you paid some $218 to do next to nothing, you would expect the job to be done well.

-----Original Message-----
From: darren brown [mailto:darren@downhillzone.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:44 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Darren---Nice pack job!!!!!!!!!

You know what?
It wasn’t sticking out when it left, all the parts are there, and I got you more $ than you ever would have got for the damaged frame
Was I supposed to pack it like a new bike?
Just be glad you got the $ and sorry it wasn’t up to your standard.
I know you got all the parts and call it a storage/ packing/handling/whatever fee
L8tr
Darren


So what do you guys think? Would you be pissed? In my opinion the guy is acting like a stroke. I could have just walked away but I figured the guy had helped me out and I wanted to show I was grateful and the guy turns around and treats my stuff like ****.

I know he has no control over UPS and how they treat packages. But he could have put a little more effort into packing the parts into the box.
 

benbmx

Chimp
Mar 6, 2003
18
0
T-town
Everything Darren predicted came true!!!You did take the money and run!! You didn't take it to another retailer, but DHZ didn't see you leave on a new Bullit like you told them you would (i.e. estimatae including bike, DHZ labor, and Washington State sales tax).
UPS is notorious for the "Not Packaged Properly" claim. It sounds like Darren went above and beyond what anyone else could have done by simply convinceing a insurance adjuster that UPS was at fault. I'd say your lucky UPS gave you anything and you should thank Daren for getting you some $$$.
Why was it Darrens job to make sure your friend packaged your parts right for shipping? Didn't you learn your lesson the first time when your bike was UPS'd. Maybe you can keep your ground up hub for a reminder.
It sounds like you got more than you should have out of the deal even after the $218...which you wouldn't have got in the first place if it wasn't for DHZ
.
 

Tootrikky

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
772
0
Mount Vernon
whether or not he packed it poorly or not, your email didn't really give him a chance to explain the packing job. Reading between the lines it sounds like you pretty much told him to get !@@# in a polite manner imo. Of course Darren is a personable guy and you got a personable response.
 
benbmx said:
Why was it Darrens job to make sure your friend packaged your parts right for shipping? .......
Ahhhh, it sounded like Darren was the one that packaged the bike. Even in Darren's response he claimed he didn't take care in the packing because it was a broken bike.
When I was working in a shop we never charged for an estimate, and from what I can gather in this story, Darren got paid $218 to pack a bike.
 

odiwik

Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
252
0
I'm not one to talk bad about bike shops or the people that work in them..... So I won't say anything about DHZ and it's owner.
 

oly

skin cooker for the hive
Dec 6, 2001
5,119
6
Witness relocation housing
Psycho, you still have the best signature ever!

Maybe you should have paid $220 instead of $218. Maybe he could have afforded a little more packing material then,......
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
90
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Snacks said:
I would be upset about the damage done to your parts, but I wouldn't air an on going email disagreement over the internet.
Why not? It doesn't sound like it's on-going. It appears to be settled. The guy is unhappy with Darren. He's allowed to make it public. He could be doing someone a favour by doing so.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,625
0
Lynnwood, WA
MMike said:
Why not? It doesn't sound like it's on-going. It appears to be settled. The guy is unhappy with Darren. He's allowed to make it public. He could be doing someone a favour by doing so.
MMike airing his beef with DHZ didn't help Mtbike....:sneaky:

This is an unfortunate occurance. My favorite guy at the DHZ is Scotty....I normally talk and am helped by him.
 

Snacks

Turbo Monkey
Feb 20, 2003
3,523
0
GO! SEAHAWKS!
MMike said:
Why not? It doesn't sound like it's on-going. It appears to be settled. The guy is unhappy with Darren. He's allowed to make it public. He could be doing someone a favour by doing so.
I'm just stating my opinion. To me it's not cool to copy and paste someone else's email to a forum. I mean, the poster could be altering Darren's words. I'm not saying he did or is, I'm just stating what I think...K?
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
90
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Snacks said:
I'm just stating my opinion. To me it's not cool to copy and paste someone else's email to a forum. I mean, the poster could be altering Darren's words. AND BY THE WAY I THINK YOU ARE SUPER HUNKY COOL. I'm not saying he did or is, I'm just stating what I think...K?
I know. And that's cool. I however am of the opinion that more info is better than less. And it's no secret that I am no fan of Darren. It's all good.
 

benbmx

Chimp
Mar 6, 2003
18
0
T-town
Snacks said:
I would be upset about the damage done to your parts, but I wouldn't air an on going email disagreement over the internet.
Isn't that what the internet's for..for slandering people anonymously?
If people would only use the power for good............like spreading rumors about rangers, tickets, and bitching about trail access.:confused:
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
90
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
benbmx said:
Isn't that what the internet's for..for slandering people anonymously?
If people would only use the power for good............like spreading rumors about rangers, tickets, and bitching about trail access.:confused:
Ah it's the evil internet's fault....as always.....
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,996
3,235
i think the original poster should have just gone to supergo

:devil: :D
 

vibiker

Monkey
May 3, 2004
733
0
Santa Clara / Vashon
Snacks said:
I'm just stating my opinion. To me it's not cool to copy and paste someone else's email to a forum. I mean, the poster could be altering Darren's words.
Typically, I would agree. In this case, the shoe appears to be fitting quite well.:nuts:
 

Bullitrider

Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
577
0
Seattle
So Darren's prediction came true. You backed outta the deal after you "assured" him of your support. So he went ahead and got you more money than if you sold that old frame undamaged even after you went back on your word. Good grief. Before you send out anymore nasty emails maybe you should make another claim with UPS. Darren might have stepped up for you again but it looks like you burned that bridge.
 

kinghami3

Future Turbo Monkey
Jun 1, 2004
2,240
0
Ballard 4 life.
I've been to DHZ a couple times. They don't have a huge staff like most other shops in town, but it takes a while to get anyone to realize they have a customer. That said, they're fast and they know their stuff and seem like good guys. Sorry you had such a bad experience; he really should have packed your bike better.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,384
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
Snacks said:
I'm just stating my opinion. To me it's not cool to copy and paste someone else's email to a forum. I mean, the poster could be altering Darren's words. I'm not saying he did or is, I'm just stating what I think...K?
Uhh, sorry man, but if you put something stupid down in writing, that's your own fault. Once it's in an email, it exists forever and might show up again to haunt you. People should be getting their minds around this fact by now.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
90
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
skatetokil said:
Uhh, sorry man, but if you put something stupid down in writing, that's your own fault. Once it's in an email, it exists forever and might show up again to haunt you. People should be getting their minds around this fact by now.
I agree....and Snacks is a chick.
 

Mtbike

Monkey
Jul 28, 2004
234
0
Indiana
Bullitrider said:
So Darren's prediction came true. You backed outta the deal after you "assured" him of your support. So he went ahead and got you more money than if you sold that old frame undamaged even after you went back on your word. Good grief. Before you send out anymore nasty emails maybe you should make another claim with UPS. Darren might have stepped up for you again but it looks like you burned that bridge.
Would have done me no good. UPS has a policy of the amount of packing material in the box. The box had one piece of paper for packing. The front wheel was packed right next to the box allowing the hub t gough through the side of the box. It looked like the opened the box dumped the frame and wheel set into the box, threw the smaller parts into a smaller box and taped it shut. There was noconsideration about how the parts would travel, fully knowing that shipping can be hard on a packages contents.

And I don't think I was at all nasty in my email to Darren. I may have sounded perturbed, but wouldn't you? And if I remember correctly in sales the customer is always right.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
Mtbike said:
Would have done me no good. UPS has a policy of the amount of packing material in the box. The box had one piece of paper for packing. The front wheel was packed right next to the box allowing the hub t gough through the side of the box. It looked like the opened the box dumped the frame and wheel set into the box, threw the smaller parts into a smaller box and taped it shut. There was noconsideration about how the parts would travel, fully knowing that shipping can be hard on a packages contents.

And I don't think I was at all nasty in my email to Darren. I may have sounded perturbed, but wouldn't you? And if I remember correctly in sales the customer is always right.
Since you didn't actually "purchase" anything like you said you would, I'd say you were no "customer" of theirs...

Yeah, you paid him a fee, big deal...he packed it, he shipped it through the company YOU wanted...If I was D, I'd wash my hands of this too...It's cardboard vs. metal....puh-leeze....

Personally, I'd step up the smartness factor and learn from my mistake in the first place...If you got something damaged the first time, why would you make a decision that would put it in the same peril again...

*side note for next shipping extravaganza: Take some freakin' pictures before sealing it up. Then, take some pics on the other end.

.02
 
Secret Squirrel said:
Since you didn't actually "purchase" anything like you said you would, I'd say you were no "customer" of theirs...

Yeah, you paid him a fee, big deal...he packed it, he shipped it through the company YOU wanted...If I was D, I'd wash my hands of this too...It's cardboard vs. metal....puh-leeze....

Personally, I'd step up the smartness factor and learn from my mistake in the first place...If you got something damaged the first time, why would you make a decision that would put it in the same peril again...

*side note for next shipping extravaganza: Take some freakin' pictures before sealing it up. Then, take some pics on the other end.

.02
He decided not to replace the bike! It's not like he screwed DHZ and went somewhere else, he just decided to not replace the bike. should he be comitted to purchase because he got an estimate?

He paid a fee, your right. To pack a bicycle, doesn't sound like it was done properly. Even D says so in his e-mail. Metal bikes are shipped in cardboard boxes everyday, most do just fine when packaged with a little care and common sense.

The guys got a right to be pissed.
 

holliswood

Monkey
Mar 16, 2004
558
0
University Place
Oh' what the hell, I'll give my two cents too.......


1. I am sure Darren got you way more than the bike was probably worth (how about telling us how much you had UPS pay you for a Super 8 which Santa Cruz has not made in over 4 years and wouldn't be worth much at all on the open market). I am sure you scored on UPS's mistake.

2. I do think the amount paid to DHZ seems a bit excessive for an estimate and to ship the parts and frame to you (but I imagine that was just a cut from a much larger amount you had received from UPS).

3. Yes I do agree the box should have been prepared better, but I have had stuff packed very well arrive at the door hammered by UPS.

4. Sh*t happens when you are dealing third person and from another state. It's a crappy lesson, but one learned.:thumb:
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,625
0
Lynnwood, WA
holliswood said:
Oh' what the hell, I'll give my two cents too.......


1. I am sure Darren got you way more than the bike was probably worth (how about telling us how much you had UPS pay you for a Super 8 which Santa Cruz has not made in over 4 years and wouldn't be worth much at all on the open market). I am sure you scored on UPS's mistake.

2. I do think the amount paid to DHZ seems a bit excessive for an estimate and to ship the parts and frame to you (but I imagine that was just a cut from a much larger amount you had received from UPS).

3. Yes I do agree the box should have been prepared better, but I have had stuff packed very well arrive at the door hammered by UPS.

4. Sh*t happens when you are dealing third person and from another state. It's a crappy lesson, but one learned.:thumb:
Ehhh...what do you know!

:D;)
 

Mtbike

Monkey
Jul 28, 2004
234
0
Indiana
holliswood said:
Oh' what the hell, I'll give my two cents too.......


1. I am sure Darren got you way more than the bike was probably worth (how about telling us how much you had UPS pay you for a Super 8 which Santa Cruz has not made in over 4 years and wouldn't be worth much at all on the open market). I am sure you scored on UPS's mistake.I recieved the retail price for a Bullit frame. I don't think that is a mistake on UPS's part, they bent the swing arm of my frame, I paid enough insurance coverage for $2500, and they forked over $1200. I recieved what I deserved. I would have gladly had my 1998 Super 8 arrive in the same condition sent and rode it at Whistler all week, instead of having to rent a different bike everyday while I was there.

2. I do think the amount paid to DHZ seems a bit excessive for an estimate and to ship the parts and frame to you (but I imagine that was just a cut from a much larger amount you had received from UPS).Darren recieved a portion of the settlement that was for his labor to reassemble my bike if I purchased a new frame. He did not pay for shipping and obviously did not pay for any packing.

3. Yes I do agree the box should have been prepared better, but I have had stuff packed very well arrive at the door hammered by UPS.Point taken

4. Sh*t happens when you are dealing third person and from another state. It's a crappy lesson, but one learned.:thumb:
You got that right. I was always under the impression that Mountain Bikers as a whole were a community and tried to watch out for each other. Dead wrong in this case.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,153
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
PsychO!1 said:
He decided not to replace the bike! It's not like he screwed DHZ and went somewhere else, he just decided to not replace the bike. should he be comitted to purchase because he got an estimate?

He paid a fee, your right. To pack a bicycle, doesn't sound like it was done properly. Even D says so in his e-mail. Metal bikes are shipped in cardboard boxes everyday, most do just fine when packaged with a little care and common sense.

The guys got a right to be pissed.
I never said that he didn't have a right to be pissed. I'm merely pointing out flaws in his argument. No, he's not committed to purchasing anything, but in the same breath he can not claim to be a customer.

Yeah, metal bikes are shipped everyday, however, no matter how well something is packed, it can get damaged. The fact that he a.) didn't learn the first time b.) paid someone to do the handling/packing/whatever instead of getting his buddy to do it "properly" shows that he didn't think everything all the way through. Of course he can be pissed, most of it should be directed back at himself though.

Blaming others when you could've avoided the entire incident with some clear thinking just doesn't cut it with me.:dancing:
 

stinsonblvd

Chimp
Feb 28, 2005
85
0
Seattle
Let me get this straight----$218.00 United States Currency for talking to a UPS guy about how much the bike is worth and then throwing it in a box? Sounds like you were screwed twice by Darren...I would do this for $118.00 if you need it done again!!! The Downhill Zone is a great place(when Darren is at lunch). Seriously, I like the other guys there, but Darren has horrible customer service. If he didnt own the place or manage it, I would spend more of the 3K I usually dish out per year on mountain bike parts at DHZ. As a business owner, I know that the only thing that keeps people coming back is the quality of your customer service-It is lacking at the DHZ Too bad, because we are continually losing our LBS's because of this...Better luck next time MTBIKE