[BurlyShirley]

So yeah, Ive been tooling with the shifting for weeks, and Ive got it about right except that gears 1 and 2 on the back slip down when I pedal backward in my biggest front ring (32). Ive tweaked everything I can, and still cant make it work. The chainline is just funky.
So to be sure, I took it to the LBS (gasp!) and they poked at it for a few minutes and agreed with me. WTF? So I just have to accept that it wont ever work right?
Basically, there are three spacers with the BB, one on the drive side, however if I remove it, my front Der. wont function.
This sucks.

 

[JRB]

I am about to leave, but post pics and peeps will be able to help I am sure. Chainline is the one thing I think is whacky about the new BB types. I had to run spacers on the non-drive, like you said. I don't remember having 3 though. Hell - I don't recall without looking. What derailler is it??? I had a bike that I couldn't run XTR on, but XT worked fine.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Der. is an x7.

Hone front der.

Still, Im pretty sure neither of those are a factor, unless there is a front der. out there that somehow bottoms out much closer to the frame than the one i have. Spacers on the non-drive side wont matter, obviously, but the ONE on the drive side is necessary to provide enough spacing for the front der. to work. I dunno. Sucks tho.

 

[Wumpus]

unless there is a front der. out there that somehow bottoms out much closer to the frame than the one i have. Spacers on the non-drive side wont matter, obviously, but the ONE on the drive side is necessary to provide enough spacing for the front der. to work. I dunno. Sucks tho.

Maybe a road front derailer???


I know nothing about SCAM derailers, but is there some kind of B-screw. Maybe the top pulley is too close to the cogs.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Maybe a road front derailer???


I know nothing about SCAM derailers, but is there some kind of B-screw. Maybe the top pulley is too close to the cogs.

Its a shimano hone der. pay attention

 

[Wumpus]

Its a shimano hone der. pay attention

Last time I checked an X7 is a SCAM product, and front derailers don't have a b-screw or pulleys.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Last time I checked an X7 is a SCAM product, and front derailers don't have a b-screw or pulleys.

yeah whatever

 

[def]

Mine does the same thing in the 34 and 31 too if I back pedal more than a full revolution. (XT external crank, old ass XT rear der and red carrier sram gears) I've just gotten used to it and don't back pedal more than I need to, you pedal foreward to get up the hills. I haven't messed w/ the spacers because I just don't want my non drive crank arm to be any further out than it is. But I do believe the issue is the spacing behind the bb.


edit: just read your post again. 3 spacers on the drive side?! I've got....let me look.....2 drive/1 non drive. I say kick one over to the non drive and readjust your der. A little english and patience should make that derailuer work.

 

[Wumpus]

Make sure you don't have a bent rear cog or a bent tooth. I had a bent tooth that was causing the chain to jump when I backpedalled.


You're chainline might be bad, but it can't be worse than the one on my Banshee and I don't have any issues (121mm spindle with XT cranks - 52ish mm chainline). Recommended chainline for MTB is around 47.5-50mm front chainline -- Measured from center of seattube to middle ring.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Mine does the same thing in the 34 and 31 too if I back pedal more than a full revolution. (XT external crank, old ass XT rear der and red carrier sram gears) I've just gotten used to it and don't back pedal more than I need to, you pedal foreward to get up the hills. I haven't messed w/ the spacers because I just don't want my non drive crank arm to be any further out than it is. But I do believe the issue is the spacing behind the bb.


edit: just read your post again. 3 spacers on the drive side?! I've got....let me look.....2 drive/1 non drive. I say kick one over to the non drive and readjust your der. A little english and patience should make that derailuer work.

No. I have ONE spacer on the drive side TWO on the non drive side. I cant go any less than that.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Make sure you don't have a bent rear cog or a bent tooth. I had a bent tooth that was causing the chain to jump when I backpedalled.


You're chainline might be bad, but it can't be worse than the one on my Banshee and I don't have any issues (121mm spindle with XT cranks - 52ish mm chainline). Recommended chainline for MTB is around 47.5-50mm front chainline -- Measured from center of seattube to middle ring.

Ive checked the teeth and no bends. I had that issue before, so it was one of the first things I check out. With what you say about the Banshee though, it does seem odd that I cant get it right.

 

[auntesther]

I have Hone cranks on my Giant Reign and I have just accepted the chainline isnt going to be great. I played with the spacers..or I should say I began to..but the nondrive side has such few threads, I did not feel comfortable running 2 spacers on tha side. One thing you could do is get a RaceFace Diablous BB...they have deeper cups and thus alot more threads..so you could probably shift the spacers around alot more with those cups and maybe get the chainline back in decent order. With the stock Shimano BB, its just not gonna be great. I did have a bit better luck with a SRAM chain and adding a couple of links so the chain wasnt so tight in the bigger cogs

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Did you happen to read the instructions? They're very specific about how many spacers to use and on what side, depending on width of bottom bracket and type of front derailleur. Required number of spacers can range from zero to three.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Did you happen to read the instructions? They're very specific about how many spacers to use and on what side, depending on width of bottom bracket and type of front derailleur. Required number of spacers can range from zero to three.

Yes, of course.

 

[def]

No. I have ONE spacer on the drive side TWO on the non drive side. I cant go any less than that.

Gottcha. I read it, but for some reason, not too closely. I'm known to be a retard from time to time.


Will the front der hit the chain rings when you shift? Or does the no spacer routine put the crank so close that even w/ the lower limit all the way out, it hits the frame and limits shifting? I know the set up gods will be mad, but you could maybe raise the front der up a little higher (but not too much) than normal to clear the rings better <- if its hitting the chain rings and you can't fool too much w/ the limit screws.
Also......is the rear end in alignment? Even if its slightly off a few mm's, it can make a big difference. I'm sure mike didn't do much w/ it, but he isn't a 125lb teenager.

Online diagnosis and trouble shooting is almost as difficult as the phone call at midnight from a buddy getting ready for the next day's ride. Good luck w/ it.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Yeah, If I remove that spacer, the der. will hit the chainrings. I dont think that I could move it up enough without terribly screwing it all up. I will give that another shot tomorrow though and see how it goes.
I havent given much thought to the rear not being squared up, but that could explain it.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

What led you to two spacers on the non-drive side and one on the drive side as opposed to the opposite (I'm presuming 68 mm BB and clamp-type derailleur)?

 

[BurlyShirley]

What led you to two spacers on the non-drive side and one on the drive side as opposed to the opposite (I'm presuming 68 mm BB and clamp-type derailleur)?

The instructions, actually. Another spacer on the drive side would make the chainline that much worse.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I must have misread the instructions. I thought that for a 68mm bracket it showed two on the drive side and one on the opposite.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I must have misread the instructions. I thought that for a 68mm bracket it showed two on the drive side and one on the opposite.

It definitely didnt say that on the instructions I got with the crankset, although I didnt really look at what you posted. But as I said, either way, another spacer would really screw things up.

 

[DirtyMike]

Yeah, If I remove that spacer, the der. will hit the chainrings. I dont think that I could move it up enough without terribly screwing it all up. I will give that another shot tomorrow though and see how it goes.
I havent given much thought to the rear not being squared up, but that could explain it.

I have ran into this directly with the Bullit and a set of XT cranks. 1 drive side two none drive is for a 68mm shell, for a 73 youll need only two, Now as for were your Derailer is hitting, to realy make this work well your going to want 2 spacers on teh Nondrive side, and an Etype derailer on the drive side. Should still be available in an XT!!! That will fix you right up!!!!

 

[DirtyMike]

I must have misread the instructions. I thought that for a 68mm bracket it showed two on the drive side and one on the opposite.

Thats right, but you can move from side to side to better perfect your chain line.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I have ran into this directly with the Bullit and a set of XT cranks. 1 drive side two none drive is for a 68mm shell, for a 73 youll need only two, Now as for were your Derailer is hitting, to realy make this work well your going to want 2 spacers on teh Nondrive side, and an Etype derailer on the drive side. Should still be available in an XT!!! That will fix you right up!!!!

The bullit I have is a 68mm shell. But I will surely look into the e-type thing. Its not the answer Id like, but it may have to do.

 

[DirtyMike]

Naw, if you can get a hold of one of the XT etypes they perform just fine. The XTR's on the other hand, are the SUCK!!! the carbon is Way to flexy to work very well. Should be ok with two spacers on Nondrive side and an etype derailer, just make sure when you sinch up that the bearing cups bottom on the frame, not on the tube that goes in between and youll be set