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Dry Conditions AM Tubeless Tire - Hans Dampf/Clutch SX/Something Else?

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,854
469
Northern California
I switched to tubeless this year which has necessitated some tire changes. Normally I run DHF 2.5 EXOs during the summer, but I've seen too many posts involving EXOs blowing off of Flows to want to risk it (Maxxis needs to hurry up with the tubeless version). I've been running Michelin Wild Grip'r 2 Advanced tires which were awesome through the spring but are getting too squirrelly on bone dry SF bay area trails and I need some suggestions. The Butcher SX looks tempting but I've seen complaints that the side knobs fold on the SX version. At this point I'm thinking Hans Dampf Super Gravities or Clutch SXs. Any other suggestions/input? One caveat, I'm doing a lot of climbing so nothing over ~1000 grams.
 
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?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,685
2
San Francisco
I run a 2.3 Butcher Control in the front and Purgatory Control in the rear. Great tires for all-mountain in my opinion. You could probably choose a grippier version, but the Control versions last a long time.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,854
469
Northern California
I run a 2.3 Butcher Control in the front and Purgatory Control in the rear. Great tires for all-mountain in my opinion. You could probably choose a grippier version, but the Control versions last a long time.
How strong are the sidewalls? I'm heading to Moab in a few weeks.
 

?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,685
2
San Francisco
They're somewhere in between an XC and DH tire.

I haven't had any flats with them yet, but that said, I would run DH tires in Moab, at least in the rear, if you are doing something like the Whole Enchilada or any of LPS, Porcupine Rim, etc.

The first year I rode Moab I had Kenda Small Block 8's and despite the great trails, had a miserable time due to numerous flats. The next two times I went I used Michelin DH24's and didn't think about flats and had a great time. That's also a good tire for Moab.

Knowing where you'll be, I'd probably choose one of the Clutch variants.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
5,809
1,600
Ottawa, Canada
I've had good luck with Continental rubber: a Baron and an X-King. Sounds like a Rubber Queen/Trail King would be what you're after. Apex reinforcement, ProTection sidewalls, black chili compound.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,486
283
SLO
I've run 2.5 EXOs on 819 rims for two years without so much as a burp.

What's the deal with the Flow rims?
Yeah they do not work with the flow in fact guys here have blown them off of the wtb rims as well.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,017
1,698
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Soooo ... wouldn't the sensible thing to do be use a better rim vs a different tire?
Yes.

I watched a buddy blow an EXO off a flow rim. That thing wouldn't even hold the tire on with a tube the rest of the day.
 

-C-

Monkey
May 27, 2007
296
9
Compared to a Minion DHF, they slide everywhere. Everyone I know who has tried them, thought they were significantly less grippy.

I couldn't stand them, felt like I was running XC tyres coming off a Minion DHF EXO. I never crashed so much in my life.

Spec Butcher Control's are great. Not quite as big as a 2.5 EXO, but almost as grippy. Yesterday I did a 30km XC loop with a couple of decent rocky DH sections & them hopped onto an uplift in the afternoon & did some runs on a fast & rocky (but quite tame DH track & they were great on that too. Butcher Control front & Purgatory Control rear.
 

vikingboy

Monkey
Dec 15, 2009
212
1
Seconded. Flow rims suck IMHO for tubeless. Fine for mincing about on gentle XC but as soon as you start hitting berms hard or leaving the ground.....bad news soon follows.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,854
469
Northern California
All the cases of issues I've come across have involved non-tubeless tires; I figure if I stick to tubeless I'll be OK. I haven't had a single burp with the Michelins so far.

You can find complaints of EXOs blowing off Mavic rims as well. I think the real issue is inconsistent bead tolerance of non-tubeless tires.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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How do they drift compared to DHFs?
Cue deep dark echoing vincent price laughter.

Do not buy that tire if you ride fast enough on dry trails (IE CA trails in summer) that sliding is a part of every ride and part of your technique.

Tires with that round a profile with no defined channels do not provide any control once they break loose. None of them do. They work until they don't, just like nevegals but worse.




You can find complaints of EXOs blowing off Mavic rims as well. I think the real issue is inconsistent bead tolerance of non-tubeless tires.
I use the approach of tearing them before ever having them on long enough to find out :D

Never had a bead problem with 823s, 819s or the ones on some crossmax SXs. They seem to lock pretty solid.
 
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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,854
469
Northern California
I think I'll roll with a Clutch Control/SX combo for now then swap to WTB rims in the fall (ust spec).

Cue deep dark echoing vincent price laughter.

Do not buy that tire if you ride fast enough on dry trails (IE CA trails in summer) that sliding is a part of every ride and part of your technique.

Tires with that round a profile with no defined channels do not provide any control once they break loose. None of them do. They work until they don't, just like nevegals but worse.






I use the approach of tearing them before ever having them on long enough to find out :D

Never had a bead problem with 823s, 819s or the ones on some crossmax SXs. They seem to lock pretty solid.
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,395
93
Whistler BC
I've been on clutch sx's for the past year and I really like them. Prefer them to the minion f's which were my goto tire before the clutch's. Really good for coastal PNW riding, I've been in Nelson since the fall, and it's pretty steep and loose and rocky here and they've been good, although when it gets deep and dusty I'm leaning towards maybe going toward dhrII or hrII...
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,854
469
Northern California
Funny, this may all be for nought. I put some 2.5 DHF EXO 3Cs with tubes back on and did my normal local ride and had less traction then I remember, not as much control as the Michelins I've been riding. I'll need to repeat a couple of times to be sure.
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
kidwoo, what is drift tire in rear? models?

it'd be interesting to understand how a particular thread contributes for easier drift control.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,469
423
behind you with a snap pop
Funny, this may all be for nought. I put some 2.5 DHF EXO 3Cs with tubes back on and did my normal local ride and had less traction then I remember, not as much control as the Michelins I've been riding. I'll need to repeat a couple of times to be sure.
Yep, not only do those Michelins kick total ass, but their "tubeless ready" tires have the best bead out there. I never burp their trail tires and I am running them on Arch Ex rims which I make flex quite often. :D
I love the 2.35 versions, but they are too much for my weekly rides, so I save them for races or big mountain days.
I am running the 2.25 grip'r 2 advanced now. They are a grippy fast rolling trail tire where I ride, but their weight alone should make them too light for anything other than a trail tire.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,017
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Funny, this may all be for nought. I put some 2.5 DHF EXO 3Cs with tubes back on and did my normal local ride and had less traction then I remember, not as much control as the Michelins I've been riding. I'll need to repeat a couple of times to be sure.
A lot of that's probably just leaving tubeless after having ridden on it for a while. That makes a huge difference.
Whatever michelins you had on there might be better too but the tube thing changes the way tires deform dramatically.

Yep, not only do those Michelins kick total ass, but their "tubeless ready" tires have the best bead out there. I never burp their trail tires and I am running them on Arch Ex rims which I make flex quite often. :D
I love the 2.35 versions, but they are too much for my weekly rides, so I save them for races or big mountain days.
I am running the 2.25 grip'r 2 advanced now. They are a grippy fast rolling trail tire where I ride, but their weight alone should make them too light for anything other than a trail tire.
What's the thickness situation with those? What's the burliest non dh casing called?
 
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FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,395
93
Whistler BC
I dunno, I put a fresh clutch sx on the back this morning, this afternoons riding suggests maybe I won't switch it out afterall....Nelson is riding very mid-summer right now

 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,469
423
behind you with a snap pop
What's the thickness situation with those? What's the burliest non dh casing called?
There is only ONE of those Michelin tires that YOU would want to try. The 2.35 grip'r 2 advanced.
It is basically a dh tire with a kevlar bead. Its like 950 grams and as durable as a dh tire. All the other models are pure trail tire models. I promise the 2.35 is burly though. Barel just won the Enduro World
Series race on a set where people were flatting right and left.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,017
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In my pants
There is only ONE of those Michelin tires that YOU would want to try. The 2.35 grip'r 2 advanced.
I'm pretty advanced.

I promise the 2.35 is burly though. Barel just won the Enduro World
Series race on a set where people were flatting right and left.
Sounds about right.

That tread looks silly but assuming the wiLdrOck'R is the same casing, that looks pretty legit. Finally saw that tread pattern in person. The CAD renderings on michelin's website don't do it justice. (actually on that note, I'd have to assume I need to see one of those gRiP'Rs too)
 
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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,854
469
Northern California
A lot of that's probably just leaving tubeless after having ridden on it for a while. That makes a huge difference.
Whatever michelins you had on there might be better too but the tube thing changes the way tires deform dramatically.



What's the thickness situation with those? What's the burliest non dh casing called?
Quite possible. I know the climb up felt very different, it took noticeably more effort even though the tires+tubes weight should have been the same or lighter then the Michelins setup tubeless, and the tires deflected more.

I'm pretty advanced.



Sounds about right.

That tread looks silly but assuming the wiLdrOck'R is the same casing, that looks pretty legit. Finally saw that tread pattern in person. The CAD renderings on michelin's website don't do it justice. (actually on that note, I'd have to assume I need to see one of those gRiP'Rs too)


Mine weighed 998 grams new.
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,436
72
Hiding from the stupid
I could not disagree with you more. I would average a pinch flat every other ride prior to going tubebless, now I run the pressures I want and have not flatted in as long as I can remember.
Step 1: Track down everyone who raves on the internet about how awesome their tubeless setup is.
Step 2: Secretly install tubes.
Step 3: Giggle as 97 percent of them continue to rave about their tubeless setup.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
14,401
2,917
behind you, don't wait up.
^ :hmm:

In a way, you're just plain wrong.
This isn't about raving about anything on the internet, it's about traction, and flat resistance. Maybe you see no noticeable benefits wherever it is you ride, but it's an easy choice out here.