[Nagaredama]

I just built up a set of DT Swiss FR570 wheels for my new DH rig and can't for the life me get my Butcher tires on them.

The went on my trail bike wheels (Reynolds) with out a hitch.

Yes, they are 27.5" tires.

Anyone else experience something similar? I've gone through 4 tire levers.

 

[BigBoi]

Have always had a very difficult time mounting maxxis wire bead tires to my 2 sets of fr600's (26 of course). I figured everyone had that problem until a friend was working on my bike and mentioned what a nightmare they are to mount. Using metal levers has always been necessary for me. Otherwise I love the wheels

 

[kickstand]

Wife and I both run fr570's and they're a son of a bitch to get tires onto, there is a tiny lip that makes it tough to get the bead of the tire into the center of the rim for easier mounting.

Are you running tubes? I've found the thicker the tube (I typically run dh tubes but haven't found them in 27.5 yet so currently running maxxis free ride) the bigger pain in the ass they become.

Running maxxis tires, all have been a bitch to mount.

 

[Electric_City]

I have the same exact issue with the fr570 and Maxxis Minions. I over inflated a 26" DH tube to stretch it some. I pinched the tube on the rear once and the front twice. I contacted DT Swiss and they said they never heard of this before! They claim that they follow a strict ETRTO standard set by the industry and that their machining is accurate, where a tire company isn't.

I filed a claim with Maxxis and they saw the pics and a detailed description. They claim that they need the tire back to see if it's their fault. The turn around time is basically 2-3 weeks.

 

[kickstand]

I have the same exact issue with the fr570 and Maxxis Minions. I over inflated a 26" DH tube to stretch it some. I pinched the tube on the rear once and the front twice. I contacted DT Swiss and they said they never heard of this before! They claim that they follow a strict ETRTO standard set by the industry and that their machining is accurate, where a tire company isn't.

I filed a claim with Maxxis and they saw the pics and a detailed description. They claim that they need the tire back to see if it's their fault. The turn around time is basically 2-3 weeks.

I tried 26" DH tubes (because I had a shit ton of them), no way in hell they gave the tire enough room to get the second bead onto the rim. 27.5 welterweight and freeride tubes have been no problem.

You don't have a warranty problem with your tire, you have a problem not using compatible parts.

 

[Electric_City]

Would you please go away?

Did you ever inflate a tube while not on a wheel? It gets enormous.
When the air is let out a day, or week later, it's oversized. It fit in the tire loosely. Very loosely. It worked on the rear wheel fine.

With or without the tube in, it doesn't fit on the rim. As others have stated above... Including you.

 

[kickstand]

Would you please go away?

Did you ever inflate a tube while not on a wheel? It gets enormous.
When the air is let out a day, or week later, it's oversized. It fit in the tire loosely. Very loosely. It worked on the rear wheel fine.

With or without the tube in, it doesn't fit on the rim. As others have stated above... Including you.

Where do you want me to go? What are you being so sensitive about? The 26" tubes no matter how much you "stretch" them out, make it more difficult to mount tires. I know this, because I tried it, because I had a bunch of tubes I didn't want to just give away.

I never stated that tires did not fit on the rims, I stated they were difficult to get on and off.

 

[Electric_City]

Here's the reply from DT Swiss-

"Before replying here I asked around our office to see if others had heard about the FR570 and OEM wheels that use these rims of reports about tires fitting too tight. We simply have not (and there are a lot of them on the market). Have you tried other tires? It is known that tires (being rubber) tend to vary in size more than aluminum rims do. Also - it generally is a good sign that a new tube-less tire be a tight fit as they tend to stretch with use and age (this unlike the days of loose bead tube tires). What rim strip are you using? How many layers? I would either try new tires (borrow?) on your wheels or those Maxxis on another wheel.

The wheel and tire manufacturers ETRTO (European Tire and Rim Technical Organization). With in these standards are allowable variances, and if by chance you where to have a tire on one side and the rim on the other side of the variance a too tight (better than too loose) fit could occur.

This weekend I put a new tube-less tire on a my wife's bike and I had to use my foot plus a wide tire lever to get it on. Once on, it aired and beaded up nicely. I too have been in the bike biz and an avid rider for about 16 years (since late ’98) and while the bikes were simpler and easier to assemble, I’d hate to have to go back to my old bikes for trail riding. – but you can still find them available – on Craigslist;-) "

Who the fuck would ever need their foot plus a tire lever to install a tire and claim it's the correct way to do it? Imagine a customer seeing you do that to their wheel and tire and then explain that's the way it's supposed to go on. Or a trailside fix? it would be impossible.

Here's the reply from Maxxis-

"Thank you for submitting your claim to the Maxxis Warranty Claims Department. Claim number XXXXXXX has been created based on the information you have provided. Your claim will now be reviewed and you may be contacted if more information is needed. Please do not dispose of the tire; disposal ultimately voids the warranty. After the initial review, you will receive instructions for shipping the tire to Maxxis Technology Center for a warranty inspection if one is deemed necessary.

If you have any questions regarding your claim, please do not hesitate to email us at warranty@maxxis.com. Thank you, Maxxis Warranty Claims Department"

Followed by-

"After reviewing your online warranty claim submission, we have determined that an in-house inspection is necessary to process your claim. Attached you will find your claim notification letter with claim number, as well as a claim summary form. A call tag has been issued in order to ship your tire back to the warranty office. UPS will attempt their first of three pick-up efforts on Thursday, 5/21/15. All you will need to do is simply place the tire in a sealed box at your door; UPS will arrive with the label necessary for shipping. In the event you are unable to make the UPS pick-up, but want to continue with the claim, it will be up to you to ship the tire without reimbursement.

Please let me know if you have any questions about the claim itself or need further information for returning the tire in question."

Maxxis won't send another tire for an exchange even though mine was never used since it won't mount. Their claim form has to include at least 5 photos (which I sent) showing the issue.

 

[bholwell]

Here's the reply from DT Swiss...

The reply you received from DT Swiss isn't very professional, in my opinion. Tires are not constructed of just rubber, by the way, and the bead diameters (whether they are wire beads or aramid) are held to very tight tolerances.

I would not recommend sending your tires to Maxxis, as the warranty claims process is rather tedious, and the actual root cause of the issue likely lies with the rim.

I have the ETRTO standard for rims in front of me, and I can tell that the DT Swiss FR 570 rim does not comply with the rim contour for tubeless ATB cycle tires, found on page R.38 of the 2015 ETRTO Standards Manual (this is commonly known as the 'UST' rim). The drop center is much more rectangular in shape and has a depth of 3.2 to 3.5mm below the nominal bead seat diameter (584mm for 27.5 rims). The only other bicycle rim with bead hooks listed in the ETRTO Manual is the "Crotchet Type Rim" found on the previous page, and there are no 'safety humps' located inboard of the bead seat shelf on this design. So the FR 570 rim cannot possibly follow that rim standard either.

I would recommend trying only a single layer of Stan's tape (or something similar) for rim tape, and using only 27.5 tubes. Make sure the tube is not pinched between the tire bead and the rim during installation, and also that the tire bead is all the way in the center of the drop center channel of the rim. Use a robust tire lever to mount small sections of the bead at a time.

 

[S.K.C.]

To expand upon what bholwell was stating above, here is some interesting info regarding rim-tire compatibility posted by Schwalbe on another website:
"We (Schwalbe) stick to the ETRTO sizes, the European Tire and Rims Technical Organisation. There are no exact rules how big a tire or a rim should be... However, the European manufacturer agreed on standards, that most American or Asian manufacturer don`t wanna stick to. We see lots of rims these days which are too big, especially carbon hookless rims. If you use a rim of DT, Syntace, Mavic or other ETRTO conform manufacturer you will not have these problems (with our tires)."

http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Rims-MTB/FR-570-27-5
http://www.dtswiss.com/CmsPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=609ad218-18ec-4ae2-8d31-6d1fc61613d9

The following hypothesis doesn't help those with Maxxis or Spesh rubber, but I'd be willing to guess that Schwalbe tires probably mate/mount more easily with DT rims than any other tire brand.

*Also - Are you guys using enough foreplay? To aid in mounting the tires in the above scenarios, has anyone tried using some form of lube, even though you are mounting with tubes (soapy water on bead or bead wax like Tioga Bead Wax, Uncle Dick's Bead Slip, or Schwalbe Easy Fit Bead Prep)???

(Historically speaking I recall a thread on here (2005? 2006?) detailing the issues one rider had mounting Kenda Nevegals on the older DT 6.1. He said in order to remove the tire from the rim he had to actually CUT the bead to get the damn thing off. Kendas aside, it would seem DT has a particular way of sizing the diameter/profile of their rims)

 

[BigBoi]

Schwalbe's fit much better. I specifically remember putting them on and taking them off with ease the following week, when all the knobs were ripped off

 

[jstuhlman]

weird. my maxxis tires have no prob going on and off my ex500s...granted, folding bead, not wire...

 

[kickstand]

After I stopped trying to use 26" tubes things got "easier". They're a snug fit, but I got real good at fixing flats at massanutten.

It's a slight annoyance more so than a problem. The good news is that they don't burp any air when running tubeless because they hold the tire so tight.

 

[kickstand]

weird. my maxxis tires have no prob going on and off my ex500s...granted, folding bead, not wire...

Big difference imo

 

[Electric_City]

Follow up by Maxxis-

"We received your tire on 5/27 and have completed the inspection. After mounting the tire on a tubed rim for 72 hours, we did not find any defects in the bead area, nor did the tire pop off of the rim. That being said, we are unable to issue a replacement tire at this time. If you would like your tire shipped back to you, we ask that you provide us with either a shipping label, or a check or money order for the shipping cost (usually runs around $15, but I can get the exact amount if needed).
Please let me know if you would like the tire back, and if you have any questions or concerns."

Followed by-

"Please excuse my hasty reply earlier… I was just informed that we have ordered a new rim in the exact same model that you ride in order to test the tire again. We still have your tire and will test it as soon as the rim arrives (hopefully this week sometime). I will update you again when it’s complete."

It's not that the tire pops off the rim, it's that it doesn't fit on the fucking thing! By the time I send them a check and they send the tire, it will be July. If they value their customers, they should offer to send it back and lose a couple bucks. I'm going to get it back just to sell it and recoup some of my money! Then I'm told to wait another week? Fuck you Maxxis. I'm going to get the Bontrager G5's . Supposedly, they fit fine without marring up the rims from tire levers.

 

[kickstand]

Wife and I both run fr570's and they're a son of a bitch to get tires onto, there is a tiny lip that makes it tough to get the bead of the tire into the center of the rim for easier mounting.

Mounted up a schawlbe for shit's and giggles, the lip on the interior of th fr570 made it tricky, just like it did with the maxxis tires.

For reference, so far I have mounted a high roller II, DHF, DHR, Shorty, Schwalbe magic Mary with a Free ride and/or Welterweight maxxis 27.5 tube. No matter how hard I try I can't get them to mount with a 26" DH tube, no matter how much I stretch it. Nor any 26" tube for that matter.

I made sure to trim my rim tape so that it did not overlap the lip that holds the tire bead from the inside so that I had enough room to move the tire around to get it mounted.

I did have to use tire levers though, but I wasn't worried about marring the edge of my dented wheels.

Did you get your derailuer fixed?

 

[Electric_City]

The new Zee derailleur I ordered went on and worked flawlessly. I had to do the usual adjustments to the b-limit screw and high and low limit screws, and had it working correctly in about 5 minutes. The original one with the issue went back to Shimano. I should hear something within the next week.

 

[bholwell]

Follow up by Maxxis-
.

I hate to say "I told you so.." Wait, no I don't. I told you so.

 

[wiscodh]

I'm going to get the Bontrager G5's . Supposedly, they fit fine without marring up the rims from tire levers.

and you will be jumping with joy on how awesome the tires are. Oh and if you dont like them, for whatever reason return them in 30days for no hassle

 

[Electric_City]

and you will be jumping with joy on how awesome the tires are. Oh and if you dont like them, for whatever reason return them in 30days for no hassle

What's your experience with them?

 

[wiscodh]

What's your experience with them?

a season plus on the DH bike, and now have the SE5's on the enduro race rig.

much like a dhr2 but better. The spacing between the center knobs and the shoulders have a nice open channel. Really lets you lean the bike and corner hard. Braking is great and rolling is ok. Weight is on the heavy side but i haven't had issues with flats with tubes or burping on tubeless. I can get the tires on DT ex471 rims by hand or a very easy pry over with one plastic park lever.

IF you dig the DHF , dhr2, or the hr2 you will dig these. If you like magic marys or hans damphs or ardents, you will not like these. basically this review http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/maxxis-minion-dhr2 , but the g5 is better. I think kidwoo will even back me up on this.

 

[kickstand]

Flow Ex's are worse than the fr570's.

After having "enough" of my fr570's being a pain in the ass (running 27.5 maxis welterweight tubes) I decided to build up some wheels. We wanted to build up new hubs anyway. A friend built up some flow ex's for us, taped, valves, etc. Tubeless they are a pain in the ass to get a tire onto. I decided to convert our fr570's to tubeless as well and mount up mud spikes.

I can get most tires onto the fr570's tubeless with out levers. Needless to say, I'll be ditching the flow's this winter and sticking with fr570's.

I suck at getting tires mounted, so if I can do it by hand that's the combo I'm running with.

On the flip side my buddy who built the flow's for us can mount them with out a lever no problem....but he has manly gorrilla strength hands.

 

[big-ted]

Flow Ex's are worse than the fr570's.

After having "enough" of my fr570's being a pain in the ass (running 27.5 maxis welterweight tubes) I decided to build up some wheels. We wanted to build up new hubs anyway. A friend built up some flow ex's for us, taped, valves, etc. Tubeless they are a pain in the ass to get a tire onto. I decided to convert our fr570's to tubeless as well and mount up mud spikes.

I can get most tires onto the fr570's tubeless with out levers. Needless to say, I'll be ditching the flow's this winter and sticking with fr570's.

I suck at getting tires mounted, so if I can do it by hand that's the combo I'm running with.

On the flip side my buddy who built the flow's for us can mount them with out a lever no problem....but he has manly gorrilla strength hands.

I agree. You suck at mounting tires. I've had no problems getting Maxxis, Schwalbe or Specialized tires mounted on my Flow EXs, and I've not used a tire lever in as long as I can remember.

Edit: Mine are 26", because I'm O-G like that.

 

[djjohnr]

The trick to getting tires on easily is patience and good form, not strength.

 

[kickstand]

I agree. You suck at mounting tires. I've had no problems getting Maxxis, Schwalbe or Specialized tires mounted on my Flow EXs, and I've not used a tire lever in as long as I can remember.

Edit: Mine are 26", because I'm O-G like that.

Never had a problem with 26" tires

 

[Bikael Molton]

^^ yep

 

[Nagaredama]

Anyone set up their FR570's tubeless? What valve stem are you using? Since teh FR570's have schrader holes I'm having a hard time getting the DT valves to seal with or without the supplied rubber grommet.

 

[kickstand]

Anyone set up their FR570's tubeless? What valve stem are you using? Since teh FR570's have schrader holes I'm having a hard time getting the DT valves to seal with or without the supplied rubber grommet.

Yes, I have a total of 4 of them set up tubeless, stans valves.

 

[Metamorphic]

Anyone set up their FR570's tubeless? What valve stem are you using? Since teh FR570's have schrader holes I'm having a hard time getting the DT valves to seal with or without the supplied rubber grommet.

I just built a rear 27.5 wheel with this rim, first ride today.

Bontrager G5 27.5 x 2.5 fit beautifully no issues getting on.

Had to retape once because I'm a n00b, but used a standard Stan's valve stem and left the stock rubber grommet on, holding air fine. Trucker Co. tape and Stan's sealant.

 

[kickstand]

Clear Gorilla Tape, home made sealant. For reference.

 

[Nagaredama]

Clear Gorilla Tape, home made sealant. For reference.

Which Stan's valves are you using? I just ordered a pair of the Stan's 'problem solvers' valves. Designed for rims drilled for schrader. Hopefully that solves the problem.

My Specialized Butcher's sealed right up. Just a bit of leakage from the valve stem.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[jonKranked]

Follow up by Maxxis-

"We received your tire on 5/27 and have completed the inspection. After mounting the tire on a tubed rim for 72 hours, we did not find any defects in the bead area, nor did the tire pop off of the rim. That being said, we are unable to issue a replacement tire at this time. If you would like your tire shipped back to you, we ask that you provide us with either a shipping label, or a check or money order for the shipping cost (usually runs around $15, but I can get the exact amount if needed).
Please let me know if you would like the tire back, and if you have any questions or concerns."

Followed by-

"Please excuse my hasty reply earlier… I was just informed that we have ordered a new rim in the exact same model that you ride in order to test the tire again. We still have your tire and will test it as soon as the rim arrives (hopefully this week sometime). I will update you again when it’s complete."

It's not that the tire pops off the rim, it's that it doesn't fit on the fucking thing! By the time I send them a check and they send the tire, it will be July. If they value their customers, they should offer to send it back and lose a couple bucks. I'm going to get it back just to sell it and recoup some of my money! Then I'm told to wait another week? Fuck you Maxxis. I'm going to get the Bontrager G5's . Supposedly, they fit fine without marring up the rims from tire levers.

as long as we're necro'd, whatever happened with maxxis?

 

[rockofullr]

as long as we're necro'd, whatever happened with maxxis?

I like that they are willing to buy a rim to test this out but won't spring for shipping back to the customer.

 

[kickstand]

Which Stan's valves are you using? I just ordered a pair of the Stan's 'problem solvers' valves. Designed for rims drilled for schrader. Hopefully that solves the problem.

My Specialized Butcher's sealed right up. Just a bit of leakage from the valve stem.

Thanks for the input guys!

whatever regular old stans valves the bike shop tosses me when I ask for a pair. I don't think they are anything specific or fancy.

 

[Dogboy]

I like that they are willing to buy a rim to test this out but won't spring for shipping back to the customer.

Probably because DT Swiss will flow them a rim and shipping costs them real money.

 

[rockofullr]

Probably because DT Swiss will flow them a rim and shipping costs them real money.

yup and then Joey the tire tech guy ends up with a nice new rim

 

[Udi]

Clear Gorilla Tape, home made sealant. For reference.

For a total n00b on this, what's the advantage of home made sealant over Stan's etc, is it just cost? Or can you formulate something that seals better and dries out less or something? How much are you guys running and how often do you need to top up?

My FR570 just showed up and I'm keen to give the tubeless thing a go on the front once it's laced. Magic Mary 2.35 SG. I think I have some Stan's valves and yellow tape, which I'm hoping will work.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

There's a whole godawful topic on sealants if you search for it...

 

[kickstand]

For a total n00b on this, what's the advantage of home made sealant over Stan's etc, is it just cost? Or can you formulate something that seals better and dries out less or something? How much are you guys running and how often do you need to top up?

My FR570 just showed up and I'm keen to give the tubeless thing a go on the front once it's laced. Magic Mary 2.35 SG. I think I have some Stan's valves and yellow tape, which I'm hoping will work.

I actually like the stans yellow better than the clear gorilla tape I use, but its $$. *edit* Only because the stans seems more durable over time the gorilla needs to be retaped due to tire changes, tire levers, loss of stickyness, etc. But I haven't ran into problems with it leaking *edit*

Same with sealant, I have no problems with the stans. But between my wife, myself, my two kids, and all of our bikes I swap out tires for conditions too frequently to pay the cost of stans. I was able to make a boatload of sealant much cheaper.

If I was only dealing with my own bikes I'd likely just use the stans sealant.

I use the Liquid latex, green slime, RV antifreeze recipe and have almost exactly the same results as stans fluid. I just do it to save money.

 

[jonKranked]

Same with sealant, I have no problems with the stans. But between my wife, myself, my two kids, and all of our bikes I swap out tires for conditions too frequently to pay the cost of stans. I was able to make a boatload of sealant much cheaper.

for some reason my brain didn't initially read that as "boatload of sealant"