[ianjenn]

That doesn't change the fact that something was wrong with that. I'm kinda on the fence with dorado. I want one but for such a rare fork I hear many bad stories.

We had some fast riders on ours. The bikes built up the Jedi, Banshee, and Zerode! It saw 250K plus vertical feet. The first day the Jedi was built it did almost 30K vertical feet down in Santa Barbara.

The 40 on the TR450 was leaking within 4 months. (JOKE) I have seen at least 4 punctured 40's around here in the last 5 years.

The Boxxer on the V-10 we tested started leaking around month 4. (JOKE) The guy that bought the bike hasn't even bothered rebuilding the fork yet! Just rides the POGO STICK.

I think the Dorado is the closest to MX reliability in the MTB market now. Wipe it down it's good. It's high speed chatter eating ability is far beyond FOX and Rock Shox. Nobody in the MTB suspension world is paying real money. SOmeone on west coast flew my friend out from Showa for an interview. He said what he made how much homes were and what he expected as far as pay went. It was WAY out of their league.

If I went to engineering school and a "large" company wanted to pay me what a Meter Maid makes annually here in SLO I would be a little pissed just saying.

 

[norbar]

We had some fast riders on ours. The bikes built up the Jedi, Banshee, and Zerode! It saw 250K plus vertical feet. The first day the Jedi was built it did almost 30K vertical feet down in Santa Barbara.

The 40 on the TR450 was leaking within 4 months. (JOKE) I have seen at least 4 punctured 40's around here in the last 5 years.

The Boxxer on the V-10 we tested started leaking around month 4. (JOKE) The guy that bought the bike hasn't even bothered rebuilding the fork yet! Just rides the POGO STICK.

I think the Dorado is the closest to MX reliability in the MTB market now. Wipe it down it's good. It's high speed chatter eating ability is far beyond FOX and Rock Shox. Nobody in the MTB suspension world is paying real money. SOmeone on west coast flew my friend out from Showa for an interview. He said what he made how much homes were and what he expected as far as pay went. It was WAY out of their league.

If I went to engineering school and a "large" company wanted to pay me what a Meter Maid makes annually here in SLO I would be a little pissed just saying.

outside of reading stories about them on the net two good friends had them stuck down with either the lowers bent or some serious bushing issue. Close to no riding, they are slow and cautious. That really scared the crap out of me. Yes manitou did warranty it but it took a long time for it to happen (4 or 6 months in the middle of the season)

 

[HardtailHack]

It is an air fork.
But thanks for playing.

Hahaha wow I had no idea, wonder what the scraping feeling was? I wouldn't buy them because the support from the Australian distributor is almost non existent.

 

[Udi]

You're kidding right? Just about every fork on the market (except the Fork that I ride maybe) has at least 1 terrible shortcoming

FTFY.
Honestly too much misinformation in this thread to even bother correcting.

 

[gemini2k]

Where do you want the fork to flex? If you have two straight objects that slide over each other and then go and bend them slightly they won't slide so well. Maybe flex in a poorly designed fork can make up for a lack of compression damping but I still can't see how any flex is good.

I have only ever had a quick bounce on a 2011 Dorado and it was freaking horrible,

Flex can be good, too much flex can be bad. There is a reason that people did not like the original aluminum moto frames, too stiff, not enough flex. Any mechanical engineer worth a dime designs in proper flex. I'm not a mechanical engineer worth a dime however (materials/electrical), so I won't pretend to know enough to give you a technical argument as to why and where exactly you'd want flex. I'm sure someone else can chime in.

Also, just about every dorado I've hoped on has felt great, including heavily used ones. Heavily used, by very aggressive, fast, plow racer types. Maybe there was been something weird/wrong with the one you felt?

Gemini I never personally found the 40 chassis too stiff, though I am like 100kg (220lbs) so that'd certainly help move things about. I'm fairly sure that Fox has real engineers at work there, the only complaint I have with them is the lack of an oil seal, damper is pretty well nailed.

Ya it just feels a little too stiff to me, I'm 215lbs and ride pretty agressively. It could just be personal preference. I'm not saying it's a huge design flaw, just a minor complaint. I'm a reliability freak, (I ride with DH tires, DH tubes, and a second inner tube wrapped around the DH tube to give you an idea), the whole condom/damper thing is what I don't like about those.

FTFY.
Honestly too much misinformation in this thread to even bother correcting.

Actually, I don't own a dorado, never have, probably never will. It's a sweet fork for sure, I just don't want to spend the coin, and it's hard for me to warm up to an air spring on my DH bike for some reason. Although I'm certain I will give the DVO one a chance. I've been rocking a 888 in one form or another since 08. And yes, there are serious shortcomings with that fork, although the Avy cart does a nice job fixing most of them! Like I said, no fork on the market is perfect, and there is still plenty of low hanging fruit IMO. Could be wrong though.

 

[Udi]

Fair enough.
I've felt having a stiffer chassis has allowed me to ride faster and hit things harder safely, and the new damper design is quite reliable - I think you've missed the change in bladder design that happened on the inverted cartridge. The bladder now expands instead of being compressed, and is not size-restricted by a housing as it is external instead of internal (thus can't really blow like previously). Sliding friction matches the best if correctly maintained, service intervals are still shorter than I'd like - but that's something I've always happily traded for better performance and a better damper.

Horses for courses though - I have a friend who rides hard, does it a lot, and likes to never service his suspension, the best fork for him is obviously different to what is best for me.

 

[Kanye West]

Nothing on the market now is perfect, or anywhere close to it. There are always, and will always be, cost and weight constraints for commercially available MTB suspension. Therefore, quality suffers. Behind every fork and shock available is an engineer whose great ideas didn't make it to production.

Strong/robust
Light
Cheap

Pick two.

 

[dilzy]

Actually, I just remembered, the fork that's pretty well perfect is the BOS Idylle RARE, has good weight, great damper, hydraulic bottomout and great chassis, reliable as hell. The regular one is much cheaper, but it doesn't get the hydraulic bottomout.

So yeah, If I wanted to spend the cash, it'd be a BOS or I'd be outlandish and try Dorado.

 

[Udi]

Ridden it, and as always there are products that better it in some regards, and fall behind in others.

 

[Kanye West]

Actually, I just remembered, the fork that's pretty well perfect is the BOS Idylle RARE, has good weight, great damper, hydraulic bottomout and great chassis, reliable as hell. The regular one is much cheaper, but it doesn't get the hydraulic bottomout.

So yeah, If I wanted to spend the cash, it'd be a BOS or I'd be outlandish and try Dorado.

So what about parts availability or service? I can't recall hearing one positive experience with their CS. Besides that they do sound cool though. Doubt it's perfect, like anything else.

Their 888 drop-in cartridges performed pretty nicely. Just a serious mofo to work on and assemble.

 

[norbar]

Ridden it, and as always there are products that better it in some regards, and fall behind in others.

Care to expand on that?


btw. Did you get my email? my mail client has been acting out lately.

 

[boogenman]

This is turning into interwedbz gold. Keep the good stuff coming! Im getting my popcorn.

 

[dilzy]

Actually it's being reasonably civil, I'm dissapoint. Hack the parts availability and service WAS good apparently when I rode a mates one, have nfi now.

 

[gemini2k]

The first day the Jedi was built it did almost 30K vertical feet down in Santa Barbara.

WHAT!? 15 tunnel/knapps/CS laps? There's not enough daylight to do that unless you are driving 90mph up Gibraltar/154/camino cielo.

 

[Kanye West]

WHAT!? 15 tunnel/knapps/CS laps? There's not enough daylight to do that unless you are driving 90mph up Gibraltar/154/camino cielo.

Yeah I thought about that. Most I've done is 7 on Tunnel and my hands basically couldn't hold onto the bars the last couple runs. That was stupid.

 

[Sandwich]

I'm excited just to see another player, especially if it's boutique. When all the boutique forks dropped out the ceiling lifted and the big boys can price their forks however they'd like.

I can tell you this much, the reason that they're doing inverted is because the cost to manufacture a magnesium slider with non-rockshox level specifications is impossible for a startup. An inverted fork is simply cheaper. Once they prove their concept and start making money they can go right side up. Any other explanation is "100% tactical". I like the idea, and the theory is sound, but nobody has taken it, in practice, far enough to make it work as well and be as light as a right side up fork. The dorado was a great attempt, but it was a manitou, and that's a tough burden to shoulder. Maybe DVO can do it.

 

[ianjenn]

Yeah I thought about that. Most I've done is 7 on Tunnel and my hands basically couldn't hold onto the bars the last couple runs. That was stupid.

Yeah it was more like 25 and change. They did 8 runs. That fork got the snot ridden out of it. I am guessing 30-40 full runs on the 2 hard trails up here. 2 weeks in Whistler a week in Mammoth. It held up pretty good. I don't want to strip stuff down monthly or weekly.

 

[wood booger]

Looks like it could be interesting, but they better get rolling to meet the "mid 2013" product availability.

It is easy making rapid proto parts from plastic, but they sure don't ride very well.

Tooling for forgings and uppers, not to mention internals w/ viable tolernaces, is a bit more involved.

Better keep party boy away from the booze for the next 6 months!

 

[dilzy]

Looks like it could be interesting, but they better get rolling to meet the "mid 2013" product availability.

It is easy making rapid proto parts from plastic, but they sure don't ride very well.

Tooling for forgings and uppers, not to mention internals w/ viable tolernaces, is a bit more involved.

Better keep party boy away from the booze for the next 6 months!

Honestly, the best bit about doing inverted is there's no need for any tooling really. If you don't want to forge your clamp blanks, you can do everything I can think of on an inverted with a 3 axis cnc mill and a cnc lathe. Getting the bushing/slider tolerances right is always one of the bigger challenges, more support/tighter tolerances is not always the way as Marzocchi found out with their shiver moto forks a few years ago when they tried 3 bushings.

 

[Lelandjt]

^Uh, that's what Marz said in 2008. "You can feel rocking between your lowers and stantions? Well that's cuz the fork is fully extended. Once into the travel it's good. That's how it's supposed to be."

 

[Sandwich]

^Uh, that's what Marz said in 2008. "You can feel rocking between your lowers and stantions? Well that's cuz the fork is fully extended. Once into the travel it's good. That's how it's supposed to be."

Yeah...they don't matter at all? That's a very Rockshox attitude to have. Good motivation not to be a beta tester...

 

[HardtailHack]

^Uh, that's what Marz said in 2008. "You can feel rocking between your lowers and stantions? Well that's cuz the fork is fully extended. Once into the travel it's good. That's how it's supposed to be."

What, so the stanchion only touches one bushing on each side at full extension?

On my Kowa(09-10?) forks the bushings were poorly spec'd and you could get the fork to half travel and put my 220Lb on the handlebar and the fork wouldn't compress. That was on a freshly serviced fork using Slickoleum(sp?) grease on the bushing and stanchions.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

he specifically mentioned that they weren't paying ANY attention to the bushings interfaces

Aha. So they are mechanical engineers with huge background in suspension development FOR Marzocchi...

that's what Marz said in 2008. You can feel rocking between your lowers and stantions? Well that's cuz the fork is fully extended. Once into the travel it's good. That's how it's supposed to be."

 

[Kanye West]

Aaaaand welcome to Ridemonkey...

 

[Jm_]

Honestly, the best bit about doing inverted is there's no need for any tooling really. If you don't want to forge your clamp blanks, you can do everything I can think of on an inverted with a 3 axis cnc mill and a cnc lathe. Getting the bushing/slider tolerances right is always one of the bigger challenges, more support/tighter tolerances is not always the way as Marzocchi found out with their shiver moto forks a few years ago when they tried 3 bushings.

Well, marzocchi also used dynamic bushings on the mountain bike shivers and monster Ts. Real good idea, use slotted stanchions + dynamic bushings. Then you REALLY get the benefit of the inverted fork as it progresses through the travel, as the bushings are spaced further apart and the overlap is therefore increased, especially as it goes through travel (it's essentially a bushing attached to the end of the stanchion, usually with a slot above for oil circulation). Probably not as cheap/easy to make though, but if you're going to try and make your inverted fork successful...

 

[no skid marks]

Well, marzocchi also used dynamic bushings on the mountain bike shivers and monster Ts. Real good idea, use slotted stanchions + dynamic bushings. Then you REALLY get the benefit of the inverted fork as it progresses through the travel, as the bushings are spaced further apart and the overlap is therefore increased, especially as it goes through travel (it's essentially a bushing attached to the end of the stanchion, usually with a slot above for oil circulation). Probably not as cheap/easy to make though, but if you're going to try and make your inverted fork successful...

Agreed.
Why did Marz ditch the really old style bushings they had in the first Z1s?

 

[dilzy]

Well, marzocchi also used dynamic bushings on the mountain bike shivers and monster Ts. Real good idea, use slotted stanchions + dynamic bushings. Then you REALLY get the benefit of the inverted fork as it progresses through the travel, as the bushings are spaced further apart and the overlap is therefore increased, especially as it goes through travel (it's essentially a bushing attached to the end of the stanchion, usually with a slot above for oil circulation). Probably not as cheap/easy to make though, but if you're going to try and make your inverted fork successful...

The moto forks with 3 bushings used to bind terribly. Shock treatment here in oz used to take out the middle bushing for people, the fork was way better after.

I trust you were having a joke when you said they aren't paying any attention to bushings right?

 

[NoUseForAName]

I trust you were having a joke when you said they aren't paying any attention to bushings right?

They were probably having a laugh to see how much internet froth they could churn up.

OMGZZZ bushings tolerance? Do you remember 2008 - marzocchi sucks ballzzz

Challenge completed.

 

[IH8Rice]

new site up and running
http://www.dvosuspension.com/

 

[Deano]

if its priced right, i will want one.. i am nowhere near fast enough for it to matter at pro speeds and im usually too busy crapping my pants with fear when im hitting rockgardens etc at speed, to feel if there is possibly any flex etc..

Sure didnt notice much on my dorado, or rather, i feel it was virtually the same as my 888, so i can honestly say, im so slow i need to look great and have fancy UD forks when i roll by spectators at my speed.

 

[wood booger]

Honestly, the best bit about doing inverted is there's no need for any tooling really. If you don't want to forge your clamp blanks, you can do everything I can think of on an inverted with a 3 axis cnc mill and a cnc lathe. Getting the bushing/slider tolerances right is always one of the bigger challenges, more support/tighter tolerances is not always the way as Marzocchi found out with their shiver moto forks a few years ago when they tried 3 bushings.

If they are going to CNC every part from billet on this thing it is going to cost $$$$$$!

 

[IH8Rice]

If they are going to CNC every part from billet on this thing it is going to cost $$$$$$!

they said they are going to forge those dropouts. maybe theyll do the same with other parts

 

['size]

If they are going to CNC every part from billet on this thing it is going to cost $$$$$$!

http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/feature/Sneak-Peek-First-Glimpse-of-DVOs-Suspension-Fork,141

"The cost of the fork may be up to $1500, which is in line with where the brand has said they want to position themselves (the top)."

 

[Sandwich]

http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/feature/Sneak-Peek-First-Glimpse-of-DVOs-Suspension-Fork,141

"The cost of the fork may be up to $1500, which is in line with where the brand has said they want to position themselves (the top)."

evil also said there bikes would be in on time...I'll believe it when I see it....BUT, if they could hand make CNC heavy forks in the late 90s for $1500, then it shouldn't cost significantly more than that now.

 

[ianjenn]

There should be some production units in the next few months around. The site went live BTW....

http://www.dvosuspension.com/

 

['size]

evil also said there bikes would be in on time...I'll believe it when I see it....BUT, if they could hand make CNC heavy forks in the late 90s for $1500, then it shouldn't cost significantly more than that now.

why is DVO being lumped in with evil again? i wasn't at that RM meeting.

 

[marshalolson]

nice fully fleshed out website + no products = win

 

[Sandwich]

They aren't...I'm just saying "the industry" has it's motivations and fits and starts. The superco silencer should also be out in about -2 years.

 

[Kanye West]

These people also have a track record of shipping products by model year deadlines for the last decade or so...apples to apples.

 

[gemini2k]

nice fully fleshed out website + no products = win

What's funny is how even with no products, their website is more useful and informative than any other suspension manufacturer.

And they aren't gonna have production units "in the next few months". Prototypes only for now.