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no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
Won't it just ride much the same as a single pivot or faux bar with the same suspension layout, accept for when you brake, then it'll stay much the same(as active), where the others will stiffen up(and squat or jack depending on pivot location)?
Isn't Split pivot pretty much just a tidy floating brake?
In regards to the Moorwood, how similer to the closest designed Specialized will it's supension feel?
Because a bike has a split pivot will not make it have any special charactuer(as opposed to a similer designed solid swingarm bike)accept active suspension while braking will it?
Not taking anything from the SP, it'll allow some some brilliant solid swingarm bikes to be built.
Can a split pivot allow for any charcteuristic that could not be provided by a floating brake?
trying a new tact asking questions instead of making statements to avoid getting harrassed by the internerds.
 
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MrPlow

Monkey
Sep 9, 2004
630
0
Toowoomba Queensland
Won't it just ride the same as a single pivot or faux bar with the same suspension layout, accept for when you brake, then it'll stay much the same(as active), where the others will stiffen up(and squat or jack depending on pivot location)? Isn't Split pivot pretty much just a tidy floating brake? Doesn't it allow the manuufacturer to create virtually what ever(solid swing arm)bike they desire around it?
Because a bike has a split pivot will not make it have any special charactuer accept active suspension while braking will it?
Don't take this as a negative, it'll allow for possibly some of the best bikes to date.
trying a new tact asking questions instead of making statements to avoid getting harrassed by the internerds.
SShhh! Don't tell anyone!
I would love to ride a split pivot and then the same bike with the poivot just above the rear axle and see if I can feel the difference. My guess would bew that I can't. Still, I like the clean and tidy design of split pivot.
 

dilzy

Monkey
Sep 7, 2008
567
1
Won't it just ride the same as a single pivot or faux bar with the same suspension layout, accept for when you brake, then it'll stay much the same(as active), where the others will stiffen up(and squat or jack depending on pivot location)? Isn't Split pivot pretty much just a tidy floating brake? In regards to the Moorwood, it'll ride similer to a similer Specialized won't it?
Doesn't it allow the manuufacturer to create virtually what ever(solid swing arm)bike they desire around it?
Because a bike has a split pivot will not make it have any special charactuer accept active suspension while braking will it?
Don't take this as a negative, it'll allow for possibly some of the best bikes to date.
trying a new tact asking questions instead of making statements to avoid getting harrassed by the internerds.
Statement away, you are 100% correct. After owning a bike with a floating brake arm and two fsr bikes, I'd prefer the suspension to squat than not.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
Statement away, you are 100% correct. After owning a bike with a floating brake arm and two fsr bikes, I'd prefer the suspension to squat than not.
I'm still not sure if I prefer active or squating. I'm a hack, so I like active, but Ifind squat helps you feel and control the rear tyre better, or so it seems to me.

Some stretched truths in that video.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
SShhh! Don't tell anyone!
I would love to ride a split pivot and then the same bike with the poivot just above the rear axle and see if I can feel the difference. My guess would bew that I can't. Still, I like the clean and tidy design of split pivot.
I'm guessing you'd notice it when braking. I'd like to compare it to a Hrost link.
 

ozzemale

Chimp
May 3, 2004
88
0
sydney
On another note, i wonder what will happen with brands that don't have the patent and use a rip ? Probably nothing i guess but still quite curious about it.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
Would behave exactly like a horst link in that it is designed to do the same thing.
"Exactly" will get you into trouble;)horst link chain stays will lengthen a trivial amount, and all that could theoreticly go with that.
But yeah, I think your right.
Horst link Vs Split Pivot. I wonder if they charge the same amount for companies to use. HL offers lengthening chainstay, and being able to fine tune wheel path slightly, SP offers solid chainstay for the rad new Pinion gearbox:weee:used with Jackshaft or similer.
HR could also work with trick Pinion gearbox, and tensioner. Both could work this way with it, and this'd probably be the lightest simplest method. Sorry I'm rambling/dreaming.
 
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dilzy

Monkey
Sep 7, 2008
567
1
"Exactly" will get you into trouble;)horst link chain stays will lengthen a trivial amount, and all that could theoreticly go with that.
But yeah, I think your right.
Horst link Vs Split Pivot. I wonder if they charge the same amount for companies to use. HL offers lengthening chainstay, and being able to fine tune wheel path slightly, SP offers solid chainstay for the rad new Pinion gearbox:weee:used with Jackshaft or similer.
HR could also work with trick Pinion gearbox, and tensioner. Both could work this way with it, and this'd probably be the lightest simplest method. Sorry I'm rambling/dreaming.
I remember an interview on the mountain bike show with the Craftworks bloke and he said something very small like $10-20 per frame, probably less.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,172
101
$20 dollars a frame adds up. Good to see DW having his stuff used and not just ripped off.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,225
8
Montréal, PQ
Dam this one looks really good. Love Morewoods, the single pivot Ndiza I had was one of the top 2 best bikes I've ever had, and with the addition of a DW suspension design = win
 

Slater

Monkey
Oct 10, 2007
378
0
Won't it just ride much the same as a single pivot or faux bar with the same suspension layout, accept for when you brake, then it'll stay much the same(as active), where the others will stiffen up(and squat or jack depending on pivot location)?
Isn't Split pivot pretty much just a tidy floating brake?

This is exactly right. The level of anti-rise (braking "activeness") depends on the design of the rest of the linkage, but roughly speaking it is essentially just a tidy floating brake. Except for in most of the ones that have come out thus far, they are no more "active" than an average VPP or DW bike. These bikes usually have less anti-rise than a high single pivot, but still more than an average floating brake layout. For example Demo's have less anti-rise than most of the split pivot bikes I've seen thus far.

Also have to remember that the amount of anti-rise is not just X% for all Horst bikes, Y% for all Split Pivots, and Z% for all SP's. Depending on the design and pivot placement on any given bike, you can get wildly different characteristics. There are FSR bikes which are as "active" as a high single pivot, and others which are nearly as active as a well-designed floating brake. Hence the importance of my comment above about not seeing any "fully active" Split Pivot bikes to date. Also important to remember when you see a new bike of any given layout, don't just assume it shares all the same favorable characteristics, in the same relative amounts as the bikes before it.

[/soapbox]
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,366
1,203
01776
wooooooooow, it's totally different than every other split pivot bike. The main pivot looks a little high for a three-ring/xc bike too...but we don't care about bob anymore, do we...

yawn. slap a DW sticker on it and people will eat it up. He should just sell stickers.
 

Vrock

Linkage Design Blog
Aug 13, 2005
269
40
Spain
The only problem with this bike is that it's going to kill the Morewood Shova and that bike was my favorite Single Pivot, Morewood swingarms are a work of art. The same thing happens with the Devinci Wilson, the new one is nice but the old one was a beauty.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,515
589
behind you with a snap pop
The only problem with this bike is that it's going to kill the Morewood Shova and that bike was my favorite Single Pivot, Morewood swingarms are a work of art. The same thing happens with the Devinci Wilson, the new one is nice but the old one was a beauty.
I'll agree with ya there.
I switch out my bikes every year or so, even the good ones, but the one bike I cannot bring myself to sell is my red shova.
Its just damn awesome.
I ride that bike the most and it still looks new.
Its still the best handling bike that I have ever ridden.

Which leads me to the excitement about the new one. If they can make the current shova better and more fun to ride, I'd be amazed. We'll see.
 

CBJ

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2002
11,060
1,346
Copenhagen, Denmark
I'll agree with ya there.
I switch out my bikes every year or so, even the good ones, but the one bike I cannot bring myself to sell is my red shova.
Its just damn awesome.
I ride that bike the most and it still looks new.
Its still the best handling bike that I have ever ridden.

Which leads me to the excitement about the new one. If they can make the current shova better and more fun to ride, I'd be amazed. We'll see.
With the divine hand of DW it may be possible.
 

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,354
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
I'll agree with ya there.
I switch out my bikes every year or so, even the good ones, but the one bike I cannot bring myself to sell is my red shova.
Its just damn awesome.
I ride that bike the most and it still looks new.
Its still the best handling bike that I have ever ridden.

Which leads me to the excitement about the new one. If they can make the current shova better and more fun to ride, I'd be amazed. We'll see.
When you do wanna sell it let me know. My Blur 4x is a wee bit too small for trail riding.
 

Santa Maria

Monkey
Aug 29, 2007
653
0
Austria
The only problem with this bike is that it's going to kill the Morewood Shova and that bike was my favorite Single Pivot, Morewood swingarms are a work of art. The same thing happens with the Devinci Wilson, the new one is nice but the old one was a beauty.
Same here - I am not planning to sell my baby blue shova in the near future, looks great and rides great - full stop!
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,087
0
A, A
I'll agree with ya there.
I switch out my bikes every year or so, even the good ones, but the one bike I cannot bring myself to sell is my red shova.
Its just damn awesome.
I ride that bike the most and it still looks new.
Its still the best handling bike that I have ever ridden.

Which leads me to the excitement about the new one. If they can make the current shova better and more fun to ride, I'd be amazed. We'll see.
:imstupid:

love mine too but from the vibe i get from morewood they dont do things for the sake of it. There frame designs are always about what simply works best no frills, good stiff frames with dialed geo. I think if they didn't believe the split pivot was better then they wouldn't run with it. Im very excited about this. I had to stop myself from emailing in an order for one today. I hope they dont ditch the shova it would be cool for them to run it along side the split pivot bikes. Like santacruz with the heckler and the nomad/blur lt. I think u can only take a single pivot bike so far and to improve on it you have to add a linkage to help tune ur leverage curve etc. Morewood seem to have teamed up with the best guy in the business to go down this road and i reckon its a good move.
 

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
That's a high pivot! With 2x10, and bigger granny rings i can see mfg's getting away with it but that's up with a 44t ring!
 

chuckie

Monkey
Jul 2, 2007
113
0
I think the Shova and Mbuzi are already considered "killed" and wont be in the range next year
 

MTB R&D

Chimp
Oct 10, 2008
73
0
In a demo Tent near you...
I think the Shova and Mbuzi are already considered "killed" and wont be in the range next year
That is true. Next year's line-up for full suspension:

Makulu
-See http://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Windham-Wrench-Report-Black-Mountain-Morewood-United,4539 for a photo and changes.
Kalula
Izimu

-Adjustable geo
Zama
-180mm Single Pivot Goodness!!!
-Upgrade to adjustable geo
Sukuma
- Spilt Pivot 150mm
170mm...unamed.
- Enduro

Lots of changes in the hardtails.