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DW owed a million bucks!

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
Reading bicycle retailer...says that sweet company Iron Horse owes 17 million dollars to people. Dave Weagle is owed ONE MILLION DOLLARS!



I thought I was owed a few bucks from Schwinn when they went bust, but this takes the cake.

DW, if someone owes you a million, you are a supa-pimp.
Hope you get something out of the shadiness.

How is it Cliff and Stew are not in jail?
 
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huntandride

Chimp
Feb 16, 2009
82
0
Reno
Haha I'd believe it. The Iron Horse bikes were cool but if you didnt buy the top model of the bike it was a terrible price to parts ratio. The DW link jacked the prices of the bikes up so bad the lower models had like van r and 888r with Juicy 3 for almost 4g's
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
If the company had paid on time, the number would have been much lower. Iron Horse never paid one dollar for any of the dw-link bikes that they sold from early 2007 onwards. The situation is really unfortunate, and dw-link obviously wasn't the only company screwed over. It does hurt to find out through bankruptcy proceedings that the people that I worked so hard to help paid themselves millions of dollars while consciously not paying me for the work that I did for them. Live and learn I guess. I'll be amazed if I see one dollar of what is owed, and I'm not spending a lot of time pursuing it.
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
Haha I'd believe it. The Iron Horse bikes were cool but if you didnt buy the top model of the bike it was a terrible price to parts ratio. The DW link jacked the prices of the bikes up so bad the lower models had like van r and 888r with Juicy 3 for almost 4g's
LOL

That's pretty funny actually. How did the "price get jacked up by the dw-link" when Iron Horse wasn't even paying for it?
 

dilzy

Monkey
Sep 7, 2008
567
1
Since the big S charges about $400 squidles from memory to use it's FSR per frame, I doubt Dave would have been hauling more than that.

Interesting about the exec's getting paid a good amount. It happens all the time, my old man's business lost $6k in insurance when HIH went under and the exec's walked away with millions in redundancy.

Interestingly a company local to where I am now (ACL bearings) is being lent some money by the government, but the exec's are held personally liable if the money doesn't come back in the agreed period, in other words, they will be without home before the investors loose their money.

I think this is how much business legislation is leaning, as the big wigs have for years been payed **** loads with no responsability towards the depts that their miss-management creates.
 

Old_Sckool

Monkey
Jun 5, 2007
187
0
Since the big S charges about $400 squidles from memory to use it's FSR per frame, I doubt Dave would have been hauling more than that.
Man, talk about pulling a number out of thin air.

A manufacturer would have to be nuts to pay that kind of money per bike, just so they could have a Horst link.

It was more like $5-$15 per bike. Although a manufacturing insider would have to confirm that number, I guarantee its much closer to the actual amount then $400 is.
 
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stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
Since the big S charges about $400 squidles from memory to use it's FSR per frame, I doubt Dave would have been hauling more than that.
The intardnet usually is known for absolute crack pot numbers, rumors and flat out BS, but this $400 per bike number reaches an all new level of retardation.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
If the company had paid on time, the number would have been much lower. Iron Horse never paid one dollar for any of the dw-link bikes that they sold from early 2007 onwards. The situation is really unfortunate, and dw-link obviously wasn't the only company screwed over. It does hurt to find out through bankruptcy proceedings that the people that I worked so hard to help paid themselves millions of dollars while consciously not paying me for the work that I did for them. Live and learn I guess. I'll be amazed if I see one dollar of what is owed, and I'm not spending a lot of time pursuing it.
I heard somewhere, that if a few (one or more) of the principal owners of a company that went bankrupt, starts a new venture and it becomes financially successful, you may be able to go after them for money previously owed form their last business. I think it was one of our lunch topics about 6 or 8 months ago.
 

drkenan

anti-dentite
Oct 1, 2006
3,441
1
west asheville
I heard somewhere, that if a few (one or more) of the principal owners of a company that went bankrupt, starts a new venture and it becomes financially successful, you may be able to go after them for money previously owed form their last business. I think it was one of our lunch topics about 6 or 8 months ago.
How would that work? Assuming IH was a corporation of some sort, the company would be a completely separate entity than the executives. Unless they signed some sort of personal guarantee or "pierced the corporate veil" then I can't imagine anyone could possibly reclaim past debts on a completely separate venture.

If there's a way to do this then I would love to know about it so I can hit up my ex-business partner who owes me quite a decent amount of $$$.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
How would that work? Assuming IH was a corporation of some sort, the company would be a completely separate entity than the executives. Unless they signed some sort of personal guarantee or "pierced the corporate veil" then I can't imagine anyone could possibly reclaim past debts on a completely separate venture.

If there's a way to do this then I would love to know about it so I can hit up my ex-business partner who owes me quite a decent amount of $$$.
I'm not 100% sure but, if the primary shareholders were drawing a large salaries from the company, then used that money to start another company after the first one went bankrupt, and became successful, the person owed the money may have recourse from the new corporation as he used money from a company which failed to pay his subcontractors.
 

drt_jumper

Monkey
May 20, 2003
590
0
Manassas Va
As for the specialized rights to use the fsr design. The costs vary with how many frames you are doing, size of the company, number of frames sold per year, and a lot of other variables. It is not cheap though! $5-15 is not even in the ballpark of what it costs, way higher. This is not speculation but first hand knowledge.
 

dilzy

Monkey
Sep 7, 2008
567
1
I'm not on just crack, but that $400 dollar figure was from if my memory serves me correctly (which it usually doesn't) an article on Turner switching from FSR to SP.

$5-15 per frame...you sir are on a seven day mushroom trip.
 

Old_Sckool

Monkey
Jun 5, 2007
187
0
As for the specialized rights to use the fsr design. The costs vary with how many frames you are doing, size of the company, number of frames sold per year, and a lot of other variables. It is not cheap though! $5-15 is not even in the ballpark of what it costs, way higher. This is not speculation but first hand knowledge.
Nicolai use to show the cost that they paid for the FSR patent in the cost breakdown on their custom frames. It was around 15 euros. Can't remember what the exchange rate was back then. It probably worked out to somewhere between $10- $20 U.S.

My guess is, there are probably some up front fees and costs to get the licensing agreement. So I guess if you are a small shop only producing a hundred frames a year, then maybe yeah, cost per unit could be high based on that. But there are VERY FEW small builders like that, that are using an FSR design. But I admit to being clueless, I'm just using common sense. If a patent right cost anywhere near $400 a frame, it would be impossible for a licensee to be competitive with the rest of the market.

Take for example Turner (when they had Horst) and Ventana. Two equal quality frames, selling for similar prices (actually, I believe Ventana was slightly higher). You telling me that Turner was willing to take a $400 hit per frame over Ventana, all so they could have Horst? Not likely.

Also, when Turner switched to SP. There was NO real price reduction. Heck, I think they went up. I guess Turner just banked the added profit? Ol' Dave must have slapped himself in the forehead, incredulous that he didn't think of it sooner.

With all that in mind. Why would any manufacturer bother with Horst at those costs. Remember, Specialized is not just licensing the design. They are also the largest producer of frames with that design. Coupled with the fact that they're a HUGE high volume producer. How could any other builder hope to build a competing product with fees of even a hundred dollars per frame, let alone $400?

Scoff at my $5-$15 guesstimate all you want. But considering how many licensed frame are being sold each year (hell if I know, but a lot I'm sure), that's a lot of scratch for something you have no costs in producing.

But what the hell, I'll bite Mr. first hand knowledge. Give us an example of what one of the manufacturers that you have first hand knowledge of, pays for their FSR patent. Someone who actually produces FSR frames please. Not some small builder who never used it cause they cannot produce the volume to make is cost effective.

Who's closer, me or Mr. $400 per frame?
 
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Old_Sckool

Monkey
Jun 5, 2007
187
0
I'm not on just crack, but that $400 dollar figure was from if my memory serves me correctly (which it usually doesn't) an article on Turner switching from FSR to SP.

$5-15 per frame...you sir are on a seven day mushroom trip.
I'll bet you a donut, that I'm one hell of a lot closer then you are.
 

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
I'll bet you a donut, that I'm one hell of a lot closer then you are.
Mate I see your donut and raise dilzy a whole fricken doughnut shop. $400 a frame is not just crack-user, but certified crack-baby talk IMO.

I'm now just talking out of my arse but there are many FSR-licensed frames out there that I can't imagine costing $400 to mass-produce per unit in total including a licensing fee.
 

dilzy

Monkey
Sep 7, 2008
567
1
Hey I thought $400 was heaps, but I'm just stating what I think I remember reading, not pulling a captain first hand.
 

jsk14

Chimp
Jan 13, 2009
45
0
GVRD
Mate I see your donut and raise dilzy a whole fricken doughnut shop. $400 a frame is not just crack-user, but certified crack-baby talk IMO.

I'm now just talking out of my arse but there are many FSR-licensed frames out there that I can't imagine costing $400 to mass-produce per unit in total including a licensing fee.
i'm guessing it is 400bux, IF it's in very small quantity. I really doubt Norco pays 400bux/frame that'd go out of business.