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Educate me about spokes

spincrazy

spincrazy

I love to climb
Jul 19, 2001
1,529
0
Brooklyn
Someday, when I'm not working like a slave, I'm having wheels built. I'm going with the 819 UST disc rims to CK hubs. I am aware of needing to use the longer nipples.

I know squat about spokes. This will be a trail wheelset so it needs to be relatively lightweight, but I don't want to be snapping spokes or have stiffness issues. DT spokes seem to be pretty much the norm, but which 14,16, double butted, single, blah blah? Thanks.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,520
9,304
i'd go with dt revolution 15/17 or 14/17. :thumb:
 
Motionboy2

Motionboy2

Calendar Dominator
Apr 23, 2002
1,800
0
Broomfield, Colorado
Originally posted by Toshi
i'd go with dt revolution 15/17 or 14/17. :thumb:
Click to expand...
I would not. DT does not warranty or reccomend revolution spokes with Disc brakes. I would go with 14-15g spokes. They will be as strong as the quality of the wheel builder will make them.
The weight is slightly more than 14-17 g but they will hold up better and they are easier to work with.
 
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bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
DT Competition have a bit of an edge...

The Revolutions are 2.0/1.5 swaged.

The Comps are 2.0/1.8

Swaged??

This is what is more commonly referred to as double butting.

However, spokes are not "butted". They are drawn through a reducing die that thins out the center section, there by lightening the spoke and "work hardening" it - basically a swaged spoke is cold forged in the center.

This does not make a spoke weaker than a straight guage spoke, a swaged spoke is lighter AND equally durable over all. A spoke almost never breaks in the center section - it breaks at the elbows. A swaged spoke and a straight spoke are equal thickness here. Low tension and poor builds break spokes, so a good build is essential. Low tension means the elbows have less resistance to fatigue. Ever broke a spoke doing really light riding? Well the fatigue is cumulative, a spoke can break at any time. Optimum tension (determined mainly by rim strength) can reduce broken spokes, no matter what the guage.

The numbers above show the thickness of the spokes at the ends (2.0 each) and the swaged centers (1.5 and 1.8 respectively)

The Comps are a little more hardcore - good for all around trail use. The Revs are better for XC and racing.

Swaged spokes are a tad harder to true as they are more prone to wind up, and take a slightly longer build. A good builder knows how to account for this and eliminate it. Over all you end up with a superior wheel to straight spokes.

That help?
 
B

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Originally posted by Motionboy2
I would not. DT does not warranty or reccomend revolution spokes with Disc brakes.
Click to expand...
Thanks, never bothered to even look at that.

See, Ridemonkey really CAN be informative.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,520
9,304
Originally posted by Motionboy2
I would not. DT does not warranty or reccomend revolution spokes with Disc brakes. I would go with 14-15g spokes. They will be as strong as the quality of the wheel builder will make them.
The weight is slightly more than 14-17 g but they will hold up better and they are easier to work with.
Click to expand...
d'oh, my bad. :D i defer to the drugged up one.
 
spincrazy

spincrazy

I love to climb
Jul 19, 2001
1,529
0
Brooklyn
YOU,MY FRIEND, RULE LIKE OZZIE! Ucking Fay - knows his poop. Thanks.

Originally posted by bomberz1qr20
DT Competition have a bit of an edge...

The Revolutions are 2.0/1.5 swaged.

The Comps are 2.0/1.8

Swaged??

This is what is more commonly referred to as double butting.

However, spokes are not "butted". They are drawn through a reducing die that thins out the center section, there by lightening the spoke and "work hardening" it - basically a swaged spoke is cold forged in the center.

This does not make a spoke weaker than a straight guage spoke, a swaged spoke is lighter AND equally durable over all. A spoke almost never breaks in the center section - it breaks at the elbows. A swaged spoke and a straight spoke are equal thickness here. Low tension and poor builds break spokes, so a good build is essential. Low tension means the elbows have less resistance to fatigue. Ever broke a spoke doing really light riding? Well the fatigue is cumulative, a spoke can break at any time. Optimum tension (determined mainly by rim strength) can reduce broken spokes, no matter what the guage.

The numbers above show the thickness of the spokes at the ends (2.0 each) and the swaged centers (1.5 and 1.8 respectively)

The Comps are a little more hardcore - good for all around trail use. The Revs are better for XC and racing.

Swaged spokes are a tad harder to true as they are more prone to wind up, and take a slightly longer build. A good builder knows how to account for this and eliminate it. Over all you end up with a superior wheel to straight spokes.

That help?
Click to expand...
 
B

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Originally posted by spincrazy
YOU,MY FRIEND, RULE LIKE OZZIE! Ucking Fay - knows his poop. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Hope so, I'm supposed to be a professional, if only part time.

Like Ozzie? Do you mean Ozzy? Or did you mean Fozzie , and you left out the "F"?
 
Motionboy2

Motionboy2

Calendar Dominator
Apr 23, 2002
1,800
0
Broomfield, Colorado
Actually to add to that, if you want a light weight spoke like a revolution spoke, but you want to use disk brakes seipum (sp?) is the only company that makes something. I think it is a 16g or something that is bladed and similar weight to revo's and they are recomended for everything including DH use!
 
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bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
spincrazy

spincrazy

I love to climb
Jul 19, 2001
1,529
0
Brooklyn
Not particularly interested or concerned in a light weight spoke. Just something that's decent. I think I'll get the Comps.

Now it's just a matter of who's calculator to trust...... and where to get the right nipplage.
 
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bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Originally posted by spincrazy
Not particularly interested or concerned in a light weight spoke. Just something that's decent. I think I'll get the Comps.

Now it's just a matter of who's calculator to trust...... and where to get the right nipplage.
Click to expand...
For consideration, I've been running Comps w/ brass nipples on a pair of Trailpimps for two years now. No probs whatsoever. I've trued them maybe twice. I just keep the tension up.

The DT calc is pretty reliable, if you don't have any bizarre components.
 
spincrazy

spincrazy

I love to climb
Jul 19, 2001
1,529
0
Brooklyn
Originally posted by bomberz1qr20
For consideration, I've been running Comps w/ brass nipples on a pair of Trailpimps for two years now. No probs whatsoever. I've trued them maybe twice. I just keep the tension up.

The DT calc is pretty reliable, if you don't have any bizarre components.
Click to expand...
Used the DT before with mixed results. Some people swear by it and others just swear. I'm going with 16mm brass nips, 819 UST disc rims to King Discotech hubs (I think they're discos...) You want to build em?
 
O

oldfart

Turbo Monkey
Jul 5, 2001
1,206
24
North Van
all I would add to the bombers most excellent advice is something I read on that Harris Cyclery website. You know the Sheldon Brown site. He says if you use the same guage spokes front and rear, either the front wheel is stronger than it needs to be, or the rear is not as strong as it should be. Meaning the front wheel sees much less stress than a rear so does not need to be as heavily built. I did build up a set of disk wheels with DT Revo spokes a couple years ago. Fast wheels but I did break a couple of rear spokes near the end of a year. I very very rarely break spokes. One of those broke just above the nipple. I ride a lot and pretty hard XC but I weigh around 140.

Maybe 14-15 rear and 15-16 front?
 
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