Minorities.Ridemonkey said:
Education and Voting
- Thread starter Slugman
- Start date
I knew rural electrification was a bad idea...
Or - are we back to the religious war of muslim vs. christian? 
They are on the same side, they just haven't figured that out yet.Jr_Bullit said:Or - are we back to the religious war of muslim vs. christian?
Ridemonkey said:
Those who cannot do, teach.
The one profession we continue to pay the least and give the smallest amount of respect to...Damn True said:Those who cannot do, teach.
the teachers of our children ...why is that, I wonder? A glorified version of highly educated daycare I guess...
Isn't objective truth just idealized fact?Damn True said:
I'm sure all university professors live in this dream-world.....
Because this simply isn't true. In many states (Oregon included), teachers get more than adequate salaries with benefits packages that would make most folks green with envy.Jr_Bullit said:
I know. It's a jacked up paradigm we have in which lawyers who essentially exist to take money that isn't earned get paid more than people who educate kids.Jr_Bullit said:
That said, I have a lot more respect for the average high school teacher than I do for college profs.
Haven't nailed down exactly why that is yet...but I think a lot of it has to do with my personal experiences involving profs interjecting personal opinion over fact.
I work with our day-to-day educators - the ones who teach K-12 in both public and private worlds, as well as their bosses, and the bosses of their bosses - but I haven't worked with collegiate profs since I earned my own degree (not that long ago).
In light of that, and in light of my experiences abroad, and working for our state department in DC, I'd have to say that while generally of more liberal mindset, this is definitely not a good generalization of the whole (and I was in a Liberal degree); most of my professors encouraged independent thinking - the texts chosen for liberal arts degrees are more oft then not designed to teach you about the world, and not just the US.
So sorry if the realities of the rest of the world feel liberal for the rest of the conservative religious nutjobs here in the good ole US of A. I wonder what Alexander Hamilton would have made of our current existence and our overall lack of time to learn and educate ourselves?
In light of that, and in light of my experiences abroad, and working for our state department in DC, I'd have to say that while generally of more liberal mindset, this is definitely not a good generalization of the whole (and I was in a Liberal degree); most of my professors encouraged independent thinking - the texts chosen for liberal arts degrees are more oft then not designed to teach you about the world, and not just the US.
So sorry if the realities of the rest of the world feel liberal for the rest of the conservative religious nutjobs here in the good ole US of A. I wonder what Alexander Hamilton would have made of our current existence and our overall lack of time to learn and educate ourselves?
true, you should read feynman's "surely you're joking, mr. feynman!" and wheeler's "geons, black holes, and quantum foam: a life in physics". they should cure you of your cynicism about profs, or at least show that not all profs are useless hippies
20k in the deep south might be a lot of money, but here, as a starting wage for a teacher with 4 - 6 years of schooling...no way - you can't survive on that, even with a roommate it's super tight.Ridemonkey said:
Let's say you start at 30k - OUCH, not in WA at least is that a do-able expense without either a spouse or a roommate footing a minimum of half the bills in a low-income area of town, and you best be not expecting your teachers to arrive in anything other than 2nd hand clothing.
Sorry Echo - you are wrong here and Ridemonkey is right. His question about why universities are more 'left' (that is not the right word here, but whatever) leaning than the general population is the right question. DT, I also have to disagree with you.
I watched a BBC spot yesterday where a guy was in a bowling alley in Ohio asking people if they'd voted and if so who for. People who'd voted Bush were proud of their defiance. That was all. They had no reasons other than that there was an underlying perception that this was not what a lot of other people wanted. The reporter spent nearly two minutes with 8 guys trying to extract a reason for Bush's popularity from them. The guys just sat there and shrugged; "I don't trust Kerry" - "I dunno, I just prefer Bush, he'll keep us safe". I came away with the overwhelming opinion of these men as immature teenagers, acting agaist the wishes of what they knew was the right thing to do for the fvck of it, damn the consequences. Like a school kid who's caught smoking in the toilets - "why are you doing this?" "Because I can and I don't give a **** about what you tell me the consequences are".
Fine reasoning for a genuine 14 year old but a poor reflection on a country.
I watched a BBC spot yesterday where a guy was in a bowling alley in Ohio asking people if they'd voted and if so who for. People who'd voted Bush were proud of their defiance. That was all. They had no reasons other than that there was an underlying perception that this was not what a lot of other people wanted. The reporter spent nearly two minutes with 8 guys trying to extract a reason for Bush's popularity from them. The guys just sat there and shrugged; "I don't trust Kerry" - "I dunno, I just prefer Bush, he'll keep us safe". I came away with the overwhelming opinion of these men as immature teenagers, acting agaist the wishes of what they knew was the right thing to do for the fvck of it, damn the consequences. Like a school kid who's caught smoking in the toilets - "why are you doing this?" "Because I can and I don't give a **** about what you tell me the consequences are".
Fine reasoning for a genuine 14 year old but a poor reflection on a country.
Where I work, my seniors are unquestionably experts on the real world. They are also overwhelmingly liberal (despite being in the highest tax bracket). Our clients are overwhelmingly conservative. We help them because they run their massive companies into the ground. In my anecdotal (edit: and self-congratulatory) experience, education, a high threshold for risk, and calculated foresight lead to liberalism.Damn True said:
It's not jack down here in Arkansas. When we moved down here my wife (a Speech Therapist - Masters of Science no less) with 5 years of experience applied to the local "big city" school district, their offer 25k, a full 20k less than she was making in MO. That offer was on the high side of the scale also.........Jr_Bullit said:
You apparently didn't read what I said. I never said anything about universities or professors. All I said is that the reason Kerry won NYC and Philly and other large urban areas is because there are lots of poor people and minorities there, and Kerry got a huge percentage of the minority vote. Minorities and poor people generally live in the inner city. White people and rich people generally live in the suburbs and commute. There is a reason NYC and Philly went to Kerry, and it has nothing to do with left leaning college professors. Are you seriously trying to say with a straight face that Kerry didn't get a huge percentage of the minority vote? Have you looked at any exit polls or are you afraid of actual information? 88% of African-Americans voted for Kerry. That's why he won a lot of large cities.Changleen said:
Ridemonkey said:
And generally they don't fit with the other prof's either. Not to mention the engineering prof's make quite a bit more $'s than their liberal arts counterparts too...
Because he tends to have a stand on social issues that aligns with that of most Christian Denominations.Jr_Bullit said:
Zealots.................that's funny...............
Looks like my college experience was different than most. I went to a "Technical College" not a university, nothing but engineering and business majors. The profs were too busy geeking out over sub atomic particles to care about the rest of the world. Of course the one english class I had to take was taught by a dreadlocked Jamaican, but the only required reading was the Bible. Of course with a class full of atheistic science geeks it was discussed more on a fictitious level.
The media is claiming that Bush won on security and moral issues. I find this ironic, the cities that were attacked on 9-11 went Kerry and the areas most likely to be attacked in the future went Kerry. And for the moral issue, Bush is the candidate with an arrest record, has the blood of over one thousand innocent Americans and countless Iraqis on his hands, but I guess gay marriage is an issue that really hits people where it matters??
The media is claiming that Bush won on security and moral issues. I find this ironic, the cities that were attacked on 9-11 went Kerry and the areas most likely to be attacked in the future went Kerry. And for the moral issue, Bush is the candidate with an arrest record, has the blood of over one thousand innocent Americans and countless Iraqis on his hands, but I guess gay marriage is an issue that really hits people where it matters??
I thought that there was no threat of terrorism, at least according to the DNC.Westy said:
People who work? Thats funny because a lot of the counties like the one where Cleveland, OH is located is filled with OUT OF WORK blue collar people and it and the other most populated (read that as industrial) areas of Ohio voted very heavily for Kerrey. They just couldn't compensate for all the redneck farmers in southern OH enough to swing the state.
Understand when you see those breakdowens into red and blue that you do not see that the few blue areas comprise the densest populations. That is just as misleading as reading Republican provided statistics about the fact that more people voted for busgh than any other pres in history. Yeah? Well more voted against him too, this was by far the highest voter turn out ever. They just don't mention that. Convenient eh?
Tyler
Understand when you see those breakdowens into red and blue that you do not see that the few blue areas comprise the densest populations. That is just as misleading as reading Republican provided statistics about the fact that more people voted for busgh than any other pres in history. Yeah? Well more voted against him too, this was by far the highest voter turn out ever. They just don't mention that. Convenient eh?
Tyler
Why is the opinion of a steel worker worth more than that of a farmer?Btyler311 said:
I think what he's saying is that there needs to be more unemployed steel workers in order to offset all the redneck farmers.BurlyShirley said:
There should be a lot more unemployed redneck farmers but the farming industry is socialist and government supported. Family owned smithy's didn't get free government loans, price fixing or free wrought iron fence failure insurance.Echo said:
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Westy said:
I understand this is the case up north. It is not the case for farmers here.
loco-gringo said:
Where is here?????
the entire farming industry in the US is among the most heavily subsidized in the world.
its a socialization of costs, completely against the "republican mentality" of the survival of the fittest.
in the whole US the, the agriculture is in unfair competition with the world. yet we get taught about free trade and stuff....
Doesnt Peru have some Oil? Why dont you just buy the president like the Saudis do instead of whining about free trade all the time?ALEXIS_DH said:Where is here?????
the entire farming industry in the US is among the most heavily subsidized in the world.
its a socialization of costs, completely against the "republican mentality" of the survival of the fittest.
in the whole US the, the agriculture is in unfair competition with the world. yet we get taught about free trade and stuff....
Well, if Kerry had been elected you'd have gotten your wish. He'd have taxed industry to the point that they would have taken all the remaining manufacturing jobs overseas where they can be profitable.Echo said:
Hmmm, I dunno. There's probably more than one crooked SOB with a law degree on capitol hill that is pulling down more jing now than they were as an attorney.
Heck, I can name three.
Boxer
Feinstein
Pellozi
Heck, I can name three.
Boxer
Feinstein
Pellozi