[$tinkle]

from last tuesday's speech:

It is our responsibility as lawmakers and educators to make this system work. But it is the responsibility of every citizen to participate in it. And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training. This can be community college or a four-year school; vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma. And dropping out of high school is no longer an option. It's not just quitting on yourself, it's quitting on your country--and this country needs and values the talents of every American.

full text

are echoes of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" in anyone else's head, or have i been reading my own sig too much?

 

[sanjuro]

try to be less stupid, dumasses

 

[dan-o]

try to be less stupid, dumasses

dumbasses

 

[sanjuro]

the b is silent, didchaknow?

 

[jimmydean]

So we should just accept the fact that China and India will continue to raise the level of education and we should just HTFU?

I feel like our education system is almost as bad off as the health care system.

 

[sanjuro]

I think on a societal level, nothing that Bush did encouraged Americans to educate themselves. It probably suited the Cheney/Bush administration to have as little intellectual stimulus as possible.

Often times, I think we are in the start of Idiocracy.

With a law professor as our President, I am hoping the intellectual levels increase.

 

[jonKranked]

Problem #1 is most people seem to think education stops at high school (or college if you go), then the rest of your life is on cruise control for a paycheck. Problem #2 is that there's still an absurdly large numer of people who don't finish high school.



at the idiocracy comment; "I remember a time when reading wasn't just for fags"

 

[JohnE]

So we should just accept the fact that China and India will continue to raise the level of education and we should just HTFU?

I feel like our education system is almost as bad off as the health care system.

As long as we continue to make better bombs, missiles and tanks, we are good...

 

[Cant Climb]

He's just trying to be positive , encourage and be a leader.....sounds kind of presidential.

Republicans are going to learn the hard way that people actually listen to what president has to say.....for a change.

 

[jimmydean]

As long as we continue to make better bombs, missiles and tanks, we are good...

Yes, because the auto industry workers can just shift focus. If only we could sell them...

 

[ohio]

are echoes of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" in anyone else's head, or have i been reading my own sig too much?

it's just you

 

[$tinkle]

With a law professor as our President, I am hoping the intellectual levels increase.

and it all means nothing without a decent value system, judgment, common sense, and curiosity about other sides

 

[jonKranked]

and it all means nothing without a decent value system, judgment, common sense, and curiosity about other sides

And these things are all out the window as long as tv shows like "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and "Girls Next Door" are on the airwaves.

 

[$tinkle]

And these things are all out the window as long as tv shows like "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and "Girls Next Door" are on the airwaves.

there are 2 shows i never miss each week: the soup & questions for the prime minister

 

[jimmydean]

and it all means nothing without a decent value system, judgment, common sense, and curiosity about other sides

And all of these things should first be taken in by the GOP, because they have achieved epic failure on all counts.

 

[X3pilot]

And you can achieve that goal of further education from your Federal government, we'll just need you to wear this shirt and pants and do some "outreach" work in Afgahnistan for a few years first.

If we could make higher education mandatory, so should we military service.

 

[sanjuro]

and it all means nothing without a decent value system, judgment, common sense, and curiosity about other sides

Why is every statement you make sounds like you are pissing on someone's argument?

On that note, I think Obama is doing a much better job than Bush with values and openness.

 

[$tinkle]

And all of these things should first be taken in by the GOP, because they have achieved epic failure on all counts.

i'm beginning to think they like being out of power

 

[ire]

We need to reform our education system, but we also need to attract the best talent in the world....we can't generate enough educated people to compete. Every student that graduates college in the U.S. should have a green card stapled to their diploma.

 

[X3pilot]

Lower education is due for a reform. Of all the policies of Bush that failed, No Child Left Behind is one that gets overlooked as a mass failure, IMO.

Live by the gouge, die by the gouge.

We need to prepare our younger students to be educated along personal interest lines, of contributing to society, not indoctrination and marking a standard score to insure federal funding continues.

 

[$tinkle]

Why is every statement you make sounds like you are pissing on someone's argument?

i wasn't pissing on your argument, just how vapid it was

as far as bush & co. doing nothing to stimulate intellect, you can't ignore the fact their reign resulted in a lot of us learning a great deal about the other parts of the world & their cultures. entire thinktanks were created out of it, most notably the daily show

and now my former senator is joining in on the fun: [int sec] Salazar calls for solar, wind energy zones
but i think he's triangulating, or claiming the table scraps from the lesser populous of the resultant under-educated:

He also said he will use some of the economic stimulus money to put young people to work on federal land in what he called a "21st century civilian conservation corps."

 

[Secret Squirrel]

as far as bush & co. doing nothing to stimulate intellect, you can't ignore the fact their reign resulted in a lot of us learning a great deal about the other parts of the world & their cultures.

Yep...one's forced to look about onesself and figure out why other countries hate us...

then it is realized that bombing the snot outta people and making sure a military presence is kept there kinda-sorta-maybe isn't the best foreign relations campaign...

Just sayin'....

When entire thinktanks are created and dedicated to "why they hate us" and not towards "how to make them not hate us (as much)" sometink iz brokn. And it doesn't leave you much ground to stand on.

 

[$tinkle]

then it is realized that bombing the snot outta people and making sure a military presence is kept there kinda-sorta-maybe isn't the best foreign relations campaign...

certainly appears to be the status quo, according to the obama administration.

i, too, am just sayin

but back onto the ot: why not just as strongly encourage some sense of morality, ethics, and sacrifice (last one has been given lip-service i've noticed), and eschew frivolous consumption? i'm not talking about foreign policy navel-gazing, but addressing the issue of rampant entitlement in our culture? it might make for awkward company during a time of handouts, but that can be spun.

perhaps he & his ilk believe morality, ethics, & and sacrifice can be sufficiently taught @ uni?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

but back onto the ot: why not just as strongly encourage some sense of morality, ethics, and sacrifice (last one has been given lip-service i've noticed), and eschew frivolous consumption? i'm not talking about foreign policy navel-gazing, but addressing the issue of rampant entitlement in our culture? it might make for awkward company during a time of handouts, but that can be spun.

perhaps he & his ilk believe morality, ethics, & and sacrifice can be sufficiently taught @ uni?

It's a crap shoot. I mean short of indoctrinating the public as a whole and goin' all Gattaca on sh*t, there's really nothing to do.

You have a handful of (what I assume are) educated people running sh*t into the ground...while a buddy of mine who only has a GED is a freakin' rockstar when it comes to finances, how to run his life, and take care of his family...

It's Russian roulette on a human scale...place yer bets.

 

[jimmydean]

certainly appears to be the status quo, according to the obama administration.

i, too, am just sayin

but back onto the ot: why not just as strongly encourage some sense of morality, ethics, and sacrifice (last one has been given lip-service i've noticed), and eschew frivolous consumption? i'm not talking about foreign policy navel-gazing, but addressing the issue of rampant entitlement in our culture? it might make for awkward company during a time of handouts, but that can be spun.

perhaps he & his ilk believe morality, ethics, & and sacrifice can be sufficiently taught @ uni?

No, uni is for education, those issues should be taught at home. I learned morality, ethics, and sacrifice from my parents. I learned software development from going to school.

Many of my republican friends have little in the way of ethics and much in the way of self entitlement. Most of which they learned from their parent. You can't force people to be moral, just as you can't force people to be educated.

But there is a better chance that someone may learn about morality at college than they will earn a career based on parental upbringing.

 

[$tinkle]

No, uni is for education, those issues should be taught at home. I learned morality, ethics, and sacrifice from my parents. I learned software development from going to school.

true, as the expressed desired result is talent. recalling the specific quote from the speech: "this country needs and values the talents of every American.", i wish he had said: "this country needs the talents and values of every American."

But there is a better chance that someone may learn about morality at college than they will earn a career based on parental upbringing.

i couldn't disagree more, especially those raised in a family business. unless by "learn about morality" you mean how not to behave then i could not agree with you more

either way, i hold an extremist position

 

[kidwoo]

but back onto the ot: why not just as strongly encourage some sense of morality, ethics, and sacrifice (last one has been given lip-service i've noticed), and eschew frivolous consumption? i'm not talking about foreign policy navel-gazing, but addressing the issue of rampant entitlement in our culture? it might make for awkward company during a time of handouts, but that can be spun.

Shlt

I just got all warmed up on this whole culture of ownership thing.



Seriously dude...you're trying to crap on someone for promoting education and when your 'wha wha socialism' schtick doesn't work, you pick up a finer detail which is in no way mutually exclusive.

Yes

You are.

Nope......don't want to hear it.


Yes you are.

 

[jimmydean]

i couldn't disagree more, especially those raised in a family business. unless by "learn about morality" you mean how not to behave then i could not agree with you more

either way, i hold an extremist position

OK, maybe things are a bit different where you are, but where i grew up, less than 5% of the people I went to high school with had a "family business". The one guy I new personally grew up and went to work for his dad's Cadillac dealership that has since failed. Not sure where Jason ended up, but I'm sure I will hear this summer at the 20 year reunion.

While I don't think college is the ideal place to learn morality, I still stand by my original statement since we can't count on parents or religion to teach us that.

On a side note, my father was a university professor. My youngest sister is now a university professor, so does that mean she went to work for the family business? I guess 1 out of 6 isn't bad.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

either way, i hold an extremist position

Nooooo.....

 

[sanjuro]

certainly appears to be the status quo, according to the obama administration.

i, too, am just sayin

but back onto the ot: why not just as strongly encourage some sense of morality, ethics, and sacrifice (last one has been given lip-service i've noticed), and eschew frivolous consumption? i'm not talking about foreign policy navel-gazing, but addressing the issue of rampant entitlement in our culture? it might make for awkward company during a time of handouts, but that can be spun.

perhaps he & his ilk believe morality, ethics, & and sacrifice can be sufficiently taught @ uni?

I don't think you can teach morality and ethics like requiring people to get a drivers license.

However, I do believe in setting an example.

When your leader is proves to be an uninspiring dumass who gets re-elected, it is hardly a shining example.

Our current leader is highly intelligent, surrounded by highly intelligent people. His administration have encouraged openness with the American public, and they are very popular around the world.

I can't help to think for the impressionable, Obama inspires more to improve than Bush did.

 

[$tinkle]

I can't help to think for the impressionable, Obama inspires more to improve than Bush did.

how so?
even if you believe bush did absolutely nothing to expressly inspire loftier goals of the citizenry (this means you need to discount his adversaries' new found desire for "change"), how has obama inspired?

i recall parts of his inaugural address specifically touching on personal accountability, and i've yet to see those who were previously not submitting to account now doing so due to his rhetoric.

my point is: people who previously sucked still sucked. you need a carrot -or- stick bigger than what either has/does/will yield. i'll entertain theories to the contrary, but you have to first overcome your own cynicism before you engage mine

 

[Defenestrated]

Now stink don't misrepresent my views, I may think higher education should be free, but I never said it should be mandatory...

I'm trying to destroy the mechanisms of oppression not create them.

 

[X3pilot]

Let's see how the President makes his way forward after pissing off the union..

Obama takes on teachers' unions

I wish him all the best with this, long overdue.

After weeks of pleasing Democrats by overturning policies set by the previous administration, President Barack Obama Tuesday will for the first time confront a powerful constituency in his own party: teachers’ unions.

In addition to rewarding good teachers, Obama also will seek to push out those who aren’t getting results.

Wow, teachers will have to work to the standards of the rest of the grown ups!

 

[ohio]

touching on personal accountability, and i've yet to see those who were previously not submitting to account now doing so due to his rhetoric.

SRSLY?

Obama has been incredibly open and honest about the difficult times that lie ahead, the need to sacrifice, and the specifics of what will have to change. He has been open about his cabinet process. He has been open about his stimulus process. This is the starkest possible contrast with his predecessor, who denied his way through 8 years with positive thinking and the power of hope.

It is only recently with the bank nationalization that I see hints of politicizing in the face of an outrageously self-righteous Wall Street and stonewalling Republican minority. Honestly, it worries me, but it is still a polar departure from Bush.

 

[ohio]

Let's see how the President makes his way forward after pissing off the union..

Case in point.

This is personal responsibility, and taking on tremendous political risk because it's the right thing to do. I wish him all the luck in this. As the BF of a public school teacher, I cannot agree more that this is long overdue.

 

[X3pilot]

This is the starkest possible contrast with his predecessor, who denied his way through 8 years with positive thinking and the power of hope.

You forgot the Baby Jesus, Rickybobby!

 

[Cant Climb]

Case in point.

This is personal responsibility, and taking on tremendous political risk because it's the right thing to do. I wish him all the luck in this. As the BF of a public school teacher, I cannot agree more that this is long overdue.

Yup, this is an issue with a potential for huge political pitfalls and alot of headaches and it usually just gets swept aside because of the political cost...

Obama will be able to take on anything unless something pops up that shows dishonesty (which i doubt will happen).....people can live with mistakes but they don't like being lied too one bit.

 

[3D.]

SRSLY?

Obama has been incredibly open and honest about the difficult times that lie ahead, the need to sacrifice, and the specifics of what will have to change. He has been open about his cabinet process. He has been open about his stimulus process.

Yep, sacrifices that he expects all the good people to make while the banks get trillions of our children’s, children’s tax money. Oh, and the need to sacrifice… like accepting 30 cents on the dollar for your investments while AIG gets another 30bil, or, attending Rham’s mandatory civilian military program for the youth. He’s been totally honest about ending the war in Iraq and reversing horrible Bush executive orders that need to be abolished. Don’t forget about how he’s putting and end to wire tapping , domestic spying, and illegal torture methods.

Is was great how he stopped the lobbyists so he could just stock his cabinet with them. He’s a wonderful inspiration when it comes to being a great liar, he’ll go down in history as one of the best.

I have to question what people see in a man that gives vast american fortunes away to totally corrupt financial institutions and can’t even address his people or the media without reading, word-for-word, off his glass teleprompter (everytime). obamabot

 

[$tinkle]

^^^ add to this: even jon stewart called him out last night (but it was quick - one potty break & you would've missed it)

 

[sanjuro]

how so?
even if you believe bush did absolutely nothing to expressly inspire loftier goals of the citizenry (this means you need to discount his adversaries' new found desire for "change"), how has obama inspired?

i recall parts of his inaugural address specifically touching on personal accountability, and i've yet to see those who were previously not submitting to account now doing so due to his rhetoric.

my point is: people who previously sucked still sucked. you need a carrot -or- stick bigger than what either has/does/will yield. i'll entertain theories to the contrary, but you have to first overcome your own cynicism before you engage mine

Right off the bat, Obama is an extremely popular president, which is inspiring in itself.

Other facts like he is an African-American, highly educated, and an excellent public speaker all add to his reputation.

I think has also been a consistent and steady hand in leading the government so far, which is another good sign. Compare it to Michael Steele or David Patterson for how not to do it.

We are not talking about a law to inspire dumasses to improve their lives. It will be a subtle culture change. I use TV as my societal compass, and I see some really crappy shows on now, like the entire VH1 showcase.

I am hoping we see smarter programming in the future, and a different attitude around America.