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Eff da po-lice some more

IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
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Im over here now
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Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
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Riding the baggage carousel.
boostindoubles said:
Some serious bad juju here... Was talking to a neighbor of this family who said Jack was a damn hard worker and paid for his ranch with his sweat and blood, working 12hr days in the timber and doing the ranch chores for decades!

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article43654638.html
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Jesus, WTF? Those two cops never been in the country before? That whole article just screams either incompetency or gross negligence.

Edit: Top comment sums it up perfectly. "Having dealt with loose livestock, injured livestock, and law enforcement the families story makes perfect sense, officers should be charged with murder"
 
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
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boostindoubles said:
Some serious bad juju here... Was talking to a neighbor of this family who said Jack was a damn hard worker and paid for his ranch with his sweat and blood, working 12hr days in the timber and doing the ranch chores for decades!

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article43654638.html
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This seems like a classic example of how access to guns can escalate situations and cause people to do things they normally wouldn't do if they didn't have that access. If the rancher didn't have a gun, it's not like he would have tried to go on a stabbing frenzy. The firearm allowed him to act out, which got him killed for threatening law enforcement officers with a firearm. There are a lot of issues that have come up with the police in recent years, but this isn't one of them. This is one of those "don't kill my dog/horse/steer/hamster" type things where the guy feels he's somehow being wronged by having public servants do their job to protect the public and put down an injured animal.

“They opened up with their pistols and their M16s ... before Jack got there,” Paradis said. “That’s an inhumane deal.
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.

So it's inhumane for them to shoot the bull with their AR-15s, but it's ok to do it with a lower energy .204 caliber? Seriously? This article reeks of something, but it's not law enforcement gross misconduct.
 
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Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,725
19,021
Riding the baggage carousel.
Jm_ said:
So it's inhumane for them to shoot the bull with their AR-15s, but it's ok to do it with a lower energy .204 caliber? Seriously? This article reeks of something, but it's not law enforcement gross misconduct.
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Yes, yes it does. The way I read it, is the officers decided it was their opportunity to play with guns at the expense of the animal. Dozens of potshots /= a single shot to the head by someone who might actually happen to know what the fuck they are doing. Then, officer small dick decides he doesn't like being told what to do by the rancher and teh shit hits the fan. Not only do these cops need to be up for murder, but lets throw in some animal cruelty why were at it.
“The bull ended up lying there for two hours,” Paradis said, “suffocating in his own lung blood because they shot him in the gut.”
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There is ZERO excuse for this to have taken more than one bullet. I would love to know how many times the steer was shot. Maybe it was black?
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
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AK
Pesqueeb said:
There is ZERO excuse for this to have taken more than one bullet. I would love to know how many times the steer was shot. Maybe it was black?
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I watched a police man here in the city last winter unload his 9 into a moose at point blank range. He had to go back to his car and get the shotgun with slugs because the 9 didn't do it.

Even a .223/5.56 isn't a good weapon for taking out a big animal, it's probably going to take multiple shots. A guy took down a bear here two years ago with an AR-15, but unloaded the magazine to do so, and still it didn't die immediately, but hours after.

Don't tell me it would take "someone who knows what they are doing" when the rancher grabbed a .204, that makes no sense at all.

.308, 30-6, 300wm, ok, maybe then, but .204? That's a varmint-caliber.

The .204 Ruger was intended primarily for varmint rifles, which require bullets with flat trajectories but not much mass or kinetic energy. The .204 was "splitting the difference" between the popular .224 varmint rounds such as the .220 Swift and .22-250 Remington, and the tiny .177 caliber rounds such as the .17 Remington and the .17 HMR. The resulting cartridge provides somewhat higher velocities than any of these, giving a maximum point blank range of more than 270 yards (250 m).
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
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AK
Sorry, this story just screams "redneck anti-government rancher picks gun-fight with law enforcement over lawful killing of bull and loses".

There's a lot of conjecture in the story, but if the rancher had whipped out his cell phone video camera instead of his .204 rifle, then we'd actually know.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
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VT
Jm_ said:
I watched a police man here in the city last winter unload his 9 into a moose at point blank range. He had to go back to his car and get the shotgun with slugs because the 9 didn't do it.

Even a .223/5.56 isn't a good weapon for taking out a big animal, it's probably going to take multiple shots. A guy took down a bear here two years ago with an AR-15, but unloaded the magazine to do so, and still it didn't die immediately, but hours after.

Don't tell me it would take "someone who knows what they are doing" when the rancher grabbed a .204, that makes no sense at all.

.308, 30-6, 300wm, ok, maybe then, but .204? That's a varmint-caliber.
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A 22 is fine for cattle or horse in the right location:

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/euthanasia.slaughter.livestock.html

Practical experience has shown that a 22-caliber firearm is sufficient for cattle and horses. A larger caliber should be used on large bulls, boats, or buffalo.
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Also from an equine forum:

A 9mm pistol would work or a good shot with a .22 rifle would work. They put cows down with .22 rifles and a bovine skull is MUCH thicker than an equine. Nothing bigger than a .223 rifle or a shotgun, they will make a BIG mess. Just make sure it is a well placed shot.

A horse's skull is not "that" thick in the cranial area, like 1/2". If you would like an exact measurement I can get it for you tomorrow when I go back to my classroom. I have a horse's skull one of my students brought me that he found. It had been shot 4 times with a .22 rifle, judging by the holes in the skull.

Also, if no one is too squeamish I have pics of a equine skull cap cut open revealing the bran. You can see the thickness of the one well in the pic as well as the size of the brain. It was from a horse we were doing a necropsy on when I worked for the Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Lab. If you would like to see the pics, let me know I will PM them only.
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
10,630
AK
Practical experience has shown that a 22-caliber firearm is sufficient for cattle and horses. A larger caliber should be used on large bulls, boats, or buffalo
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bulls?
 
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Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,725
19,021
Riding the baggage carousel.
Jm_ said:
I watched a police man here in the city last winter unload his 9 into a moose at point blank range. He had to go back to his car and get the shotgun with slugs because the 9 didn't do it.

Even a .223/5.56 isn't a good weapon for taking out a big animal, it's probably going to take multiple shots. A guy took down a bear here two years ago with an AR-15, but unloaded the magazine to do so, and still it didn't die immediately, but hours after.

Don't tell me it would take "someone who knows what they are doing" when the rancher grabbed a .204, that makes no sense at all.
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Bullshit. (pun intended) A moose and a bear are not cattle or horse. You're comparing oranges to apples. I've never seen a moose or a bear put down, but I suspect one doesn't just walk up to a wounded one of those two and place a gun to it's forehead. As syadasti has noted, and through my own experience, a small caliber weapon is perfectly suited for most grazing animals in the hands of an experienced person. Like say, a life long rancher.

I'm willing to put money down that when that rancher had his dinner disturbed to go put down his animal because some asshole was speeding in the dark in open range, he showed up and found out that deputies Coletrain and Fife had been using his steer for target practice, making his job that much more difficult. Not only is the animal hurt, but it's pissed, and its gonna be hard to get up close. Now the rancher is pissed and he tells the two clowns they aren't smart enough to pump out his outhouse and the cold Northern Idaho night air rings out with the sounds of two shattering fragile ego's. So now the cops have to make good and sure that rancher he-haw knows his place and it gets ugly.

If the state of Idaho is releasing deputies into the wilds of the Northern Panhandle without the knowledge of how to handle range animals it is failing its citizenry. Or if it is, and these two cops are just dumb shits, then it only failed this rancher and his family.
 
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Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,725
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Riding the baggage carousel.
“I’m hypothesizing that those cops didn’t know how to kill that bull, and having had experience, you can’t hardly knock one down if you don’t know exactly where to put that bullet,” Little said. “And Jack (Yantis) showed up and said, ‘I’ll take care of this.’

“I’ve been involved in it many, many times,” Little said. Authorities call “and we — my foreman, my son, the guys at the ranch — we get called out at night all the time.”

He discussed the state’s open range laws, which make motorists financially responsible in case of an accident involving livestock.
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http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article44221113.html

Upon hearing of livestock in the road, the Sheriff’s Office will notify the rancher involved, and that rancher goes out to take care of the matter, Zollman said. Sometimes, deputies are able to move the animals off a road themselves.

“They’re livestock smart,” said Zollman, a 37-year-old from Enterprise, Ore., who was elected Adams County sheriff in 2012. “They don’t have a problem catching a horse, putting a rope around its neck and putting it in an open gate.”

The Sheriff’s Office usually allows ranchers to decide whether to put down an injured animal.
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http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article42229305.html
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
"he was in fear" is becoming too fucking common. if youre that much of a coward, get a new job
The white Dover police officer who was criminally charged with assault after kicking a black man in the head during an arrest in 2013 walked out the back door of the Kent County Courthouse a free man, leaving in his wake a still-divided community......

A police car dashcam recorded Webster kicking 29-year-old Lateef Dickerson in the head – knocking him out and fracturing his jaw – on a Saturday night in August of 2013 after Dickerson had run from another officer who was breaking up a fight.
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http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/12/08/dover-police-officer-thomas-webster-not-guilty/76924088/

 
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