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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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In my pants
Less than lethal options aren't really safe either. Put a canister of CS in a small room with a little girl and there's a good chance you're going to fuck her up far more than the bad guy. When Dorner went nuts they lobbed CS into the cabin where he was holed up and it wound up burning him alive. Same result, much less tasteful.
"went nuts"

hooboy, wait till you see what happens with non cop murdering protesters and CS gas in 2020 and 2021
 
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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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In my pants
Well the cop already had his gun out and once you have your gun out you have to shoot to kill because derp derp and extra derp and youre stupid if you dont know that because stuff and plus stuff
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
19,272
6,871
behind you, don't wait up.
(I know better. I fucking knwo better to think we'll have an actual debate on this ... fucking heck anyway...)

The 13 year old was a kid, he's a child. he's a known gang member with a gun, 13 years old in the streets at 3am. the cops were responding to shots fired and found not only him but another armed suspect AT the scene of shots fired. he ran, only stopped when he could not get away and tossed the gun within a second of being shot.

What would you guys have had that cop do? Should he have waited to see if the kid shot at him first?
:39 - :40
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We have the luxury of armchair quarterbacking this. That cop didn't.

I don't want to see anybody killed, certainly not a 13 year old fucking child. But at least debate the facts.
What do you believe you'd have done if you were in the cops position? What if you were in the kids position?
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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(I know better. I fucking knwo better to think we'll have an actual debate on this ... fucking heck anyway...)

The 13 year old was a kid, he's a child. he's a known gang member with a gun, 13 years old in the streets at 3am. the cops were responding to shots fired and found not only him but another armed suspect AT the scene of shots fired. he ran, only stopped when he could not get away and tossed the gun within a second of being shot.

What would you guys have had that cop do? Should he have waited to see if the kid shot at him first?
:39 - :40
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We have the luxury of armchair quarterbacking this. That cop didn't.

I don't want to see anybody killed, certainly not a 13 year old fucking child. But at least debate the facts.
What do you believe you'd have done if you were in the cops position? What if you were in the kids position?
he threw 'em for a loop by complying, and they shot him anyways.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
27,581
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In my pants
What would you guys have had that cop do? Should he have waited to see if the kid shot at him first?
We have the luxury of armchair quarterbacking this. That cop didn't.
Because "waiting to see if the kid complied by putting his hands up AS DIRECTED" is not an option.

Obviously.

"He had to kill him he had no other option" is nonsense. There are about 100 other options.


Gimme a break. White people with guns are very rarely treated like this. It is entirely a double standard. And he got shot when he didn't have a gun.


But he was inagang™, hehadagun™. All very well established techniques to absolve you from giving a shit when it comes to black kids.

Look up the name Chandler Pappas. That guy spent all summer waving around guns right in front of cops while having several warrants out on him for all kinds of gun related shit AND domestic abuse. 5 years of that shit before he finally got to the point that they just couldn't ignore him. This kid got a few seconds of leeway and got shot, not arrested.
 

jonKranked

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Because "waiting to see if the kid complied by putting his hands up AS DIRECTED" is not an option.

Obviously.

"He had to kill him he had no other option" is nonsense. There are about 100 other options.


Gimme a break. White people with guns are very rarely treated like this. It is entirely a double standard. And he got shot when he didn't have a gun.


But he was inagang™, hehadagun™. All very well established techniques to absolve you from giving a shit when it comes to black kids.

Look up the name Chandler Pappas. That guy spent all summer waving around guns right in front of cops while having several warrants out on him for all kinds of gun related shit AND domestic abuse. 5 years of that shit before he finally got to the point that they just couldn't ignore him. This kid got a few seconds of leeway and got shot, not arrested.
if only there were a system where people accused of crimes could be evaluated based on evidence against them, then punished if said evidence proved their guilt.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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if only there were a system where people accused of crimes could be evaluated based on evidence against them, then punished if said evidence proved their guilt.
This country is so down the hole of "this person sure looks like a bunch of things that threaten me, it's okay to kill them" it's insane.

thug
gang member
hadagun
superpredator
welfare queen

All this shit very specifically used so that white people can absolve any feeling of concern, ignore reality and go back to eating their food and fawning over golf clubs.


He got shot for precrime and 'complying' and it's okay because he fits a trope.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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This country is so down the hole of "this person sure looks like a bunch of things that threaten me, it's okay to kill them" it's insane.

thug
gang member
hadagun
superpredator
welfare queen

All this shit very specifically used so that white people can absolve any feeling of concern, ignore reality and go back to eating their food and fawning over golf clubs.


He got shot for precrime and 'complying' and it's okay because he fits a trope.
instant guilt = instant execution

it's the only way
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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In my pants
What do you believe you'd have done if you were in the cops position? What if you were in the kids position?
Not chased the kid, returned to my precinct and tendered my resignation because I refuse to be part of an enforcement arm for a white supremacist capitalist empire that subsists on oppression. Then I'd make a list of all the violent assholes I work with and that I've covered for for years and hand over all information to the US justice department to start a paper trail.

Then see if I could get a job with the innocence project or something cool because being a former cop, I care about law and justice.


It must be so weird to live in other countries where cops don't instigate eventual murders by chasing around people with guns pointed at them. I mean they obviously can't have laws because this is the only way to do it. Must be so weird. No laws and stuff.

american
it's the^only way
 
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Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
19,272
6,871
behind you, don't wait up.
this person sure is actually doing like a bunch of things that are indicative of a very real threat to public safety
Fixed that for you.

1. The facts of this matter don't magically disappear because he was black and 13 years old.
2. I give a shit, and I'm trying to show a different perspective.

If the cop would have hesitated another second this might not have happened. 100% agree with that.
But if that kid had, in that ONE MORE second of delay, shot his gun and killed the officer, what would you say to that? "Serves the pig right!" maybe? No? You'd be as outraged as you are now?

Chandler Pappas seems like a piece of shit. I wasn't familiar with him before now. Yea, he seems to be inviting a justified shooting too. Put him in a dark alley at 3 am and not complying and he just may finally get it.

Maybe they should have sent a guidance counselor to intervene for the 3am shots fired call.
I think anybody loses his expectation of the benefit of the doubt when he's caught armed after a shooting.

Fun fact, this happened in my old neighborhood, I lived just a few blocks away when I was a kid.

Not chased the kid, returned to my precinct and tendered my resignation because I refuse to be part of an enforcement arm for a white supremacist capitalist empire that subsists on oppression.
Got it. Thanks for a semi-sincere reply.
I think police have really difficult jobs, that get more difficult all the time. And I know there are more good cops than bad, but there are bad cops. I know there are more good citizens that bad, but I also know there are bad citizens.

I mean, it's pretty easy for us to have our opinions from where we sit, versus the near west side.

edit: what's the answer? disarm police? not pursue suspects of violent crimes?
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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In my pants
Fixed that for you.

1. The facts of this matter don't magically disappear because he was black and 13 years old.

I agree. And one indisputable fact is that the cop would not have been shot because the kid did not have a gun in his hand. Add "anymore" to that sentence if you need to but it doesn't change that fact. Fantasy land of 'what could have happened' is not how law works for a reason. And it's not up to the street level agents of that law to decide to change that process. I COULD do something tomorrow but that doesn't mean I get arrested or shot today. The cop created that situation. You can't ignore that. Don't want to live by maybes when guns are involved? Don't chase the kid into an alley, call for backup and find him and surround him. But you can't say he was going to get shot because he wasn't. Maybe is irrelevant. Don't give orders if the penalty for following them is death.

I think police have really difficult jobs, that get more difficult all the time.
They have impossible jobs. They're trained to think every single interaction is a danger to their lives, are tasked with initiating those interactions, and so of course you get this inevitable result. I'm not even talking about he racist roid ragers that gravitate towards those jobs because it give them power, I'm talking about a deeply flawed system that was rotten from the start. Slave patrols and union busting teams. That's how they started and in most cases, that's how they continue, just in different forms. And the impunity they're granted to do whatever the fuck they want is a failed system.


And I know there are more good cops than bad, but there are bad cops.
Like I allude above, it's not about the individual. It's a structurally flawed institution. Yes it also attracts assholes but your 'good cops' are the same ones that end up being silent and covering for the evils of the institution. The 'bad cop' is the bad system. They're set up to fail. That's why they're so damn secretive and protective. Because "just doin muh job" is kinda true. The job itself is poison. At a certain point, the individual is irrelevant.

We spend billions (maybe more with state/city paid settlements) in this country on policing. We're stuck in a cycle of 'throw more money at them for reform' and it never works. Sure keep detectives and inspectors around to you know.....actually solve crimes. But cops aren't required to engage criminals, you know that right? We don't even hold them to the job we pay them to do. What they decide to do or not do is entirely discretionary. And that is why they go after poor people who can't fight back, and why they create the tropes I listed above. They protect a facade, not people.

 
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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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4,956
In my pants
Respectful and strongly disagree.
Oh so the kid went and found the cop and said "let's go guy!"
The cop entirely created the interaction between the cop and kid. Yes, that is the truth. Cops chasing people with guns is not a given, you just take it as the only way things work.

And it still doesn't change the fact that he killed a kid for following orders.


Speaking of my double standard regarding race.....

white guy trying to kill a cop, not shot

black guy doing literally nothing, with cop absolutely initiating interaction for no reason

white guy literally shooting shotgun in public, taken quietly (eventually)



Here's a good read

Get past the title and click some of the references. This isn't about feelings.
 

mykel

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2013
3,118
1,638
sw ontario canada
We spend trillions in this country on policing. We're stuck in a cycle of 'throw more money at them for reform' and it never works. Sure keep detectives and inspectors around to you know.....actually solve crimes. But cops aren't required to engage criminals, you know that right? We don't even hold them to the job we pay them to do. What they decide to do or not do is entirely discretionary. And that is why they go after poor people who can't fight back, and why they create the tropes I listed above. They protect a facade, not people.

Holy. Fuck.
What is the point of a court order if there is no real way to enforce them?
Nah, too dangerous, not gonna take that call....
They only reacted, when the dude came to them shooting up their cop shop with his dead daughters in the trunk of his car outside.

Seriously, WTF?

I got nothing - really - absolutely nothing. Just. Fucking. Gobsmacked.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
30,968
3,607
so you prove my point? there are bad cops?
The whole rest of the unit resigned from their group in protest, in an act of solidarity to the assholes that shoved the elderly man to the ground and marched on by him.

Where are the good cops there?