[Toshi]

The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement.

We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.

This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

Eisenhower said this in 1953. This is excerpted from Andrew Bacevich's very worthwhile read, Washington Rules: http://tinyurl.com/2arqjmw

 

[Toshi]

Just to back of napkin out the "military cost inflation" since 1953, as it were, I'll compare the cost of a F-35 to a bushel of wheat in today's dollars:

1. F-35 development funding cost is estimated at $56B.
2. F-35 per-unit cost exclusive of development costs is about $150M.
3. The US intends to buy about 2400 in total. Ibid.
4. Therefore, true per-unit cost inclusive of development is around $175M.
5. Wheat futures are trading at under $7/bushel as of today.

Put this together and the modern "single fighter plane" therefore costs $175M/$7, or 25 million bushels of wheat. Apparently there's been a 50x increase in the price of extracting blood from our enemies-of-the-moment since 1953. Either that, or we're willing as a society to receive 50x less in social goods…

 

[stevew]

idle soldier hands are the work of the devil?

 

[I.van]

Perhaps military spending counts more as government stimulus for the economy?

 

[Dartman]

America Fvck Yeah!

 

[X3pilot]

Just to back of napkin out the "military cost inflation" since 1953, as it were, I'll compare the cost of a F-35 to a bushel of wheat in today's dollars:

1. F-35 development funding cost is estimated at $56B.
2. F-35 per-unit cost exclusive of development costs is about $150M.
3. The US intends to buy about 2400 in total. Ibid.
4. Therefore, true per-unit cost inclusive of development is around $175M.
5. Wheat futures are trading at under $7/bushel as of today.

Put this together and the modern "single fighter plane" therefore costs $175M/$7, or 25 million bushels of wheat. Apparently there's been a 50x increase in the price of extracting blood from our enemies-of-the-moment since 1953. Either that, or we're willing as a society to receive 50x less in social goods…

Wait a minute....you're a liberal Northeasteran aren't you???

 

[X3pilot]

And I'll see your pithy Presidential quote:

“Having established as our goals a lasting world peace with justice and the security of freedom on this earth, we must be prepared to make whatever sacrifices are demanded as we pursue this path to its end.”
Remarks at the Fort Pitt Chapter, Association of the United States Army
May 31, 1961

 

[daisycutter]

Take a look at any cut back in milatery spending compared to job training and see we still make bad choices.

 

[Andyman_1970]

The F-35...........what a piece of sh!t.........for the life of me I can't understand why that program is still going..........

 

[eaterofdog]

I have one:

"Herp derp!" - George Dubya Bush

 

[jonKranked]

if more than half the budget goes to military spending
less than half goes to whatever its defending

 

[jonKranked]

also, @ the "cornpolio" tag

 

[dante]

The F-35...........what a piece of sh!t.........for the life of me I can't understand why that program is still going..........

And that was the "low cost alternative" to the F-22...

 

[Westy]

The F-35...........what a piece of sh!t.........for the life of me I can't understand why that program is still going..........

Because it is really expensive. Think of the jobs, think of the campaign donations at risk if the program is canceled.

 

[IH8Rice]

The F-35...........what a piece of sh!t.........for the life of me I can't understand why that program is still going..........

hey, they finally delivered one!

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

maybe, after all, its a good thing the teabagger have their way and the US defaults.
am starting to believe nothing short of a default would be powerful enough to make the US re-arrange its budget, reduce its enormous military (and by extension, spare a few future wars and the lives of thousands).

 

[jimmydean]

I need to buy some wheat futures!

 

[stoney]

maybe, after all, its a good thing the teabagger have their way and the US defaults.
am starting to believe nothing short of a default would be powerful enough to make the US re-arrange its budget, reduce its enormous military (and by extension, spare a few future wars and the lives of thousands).

Sadly, a default would only hurt the US itself. We must pay our debt payments and interest before all other payments.

What needs to happen is that we cut military spending to defensive only and pull all of our military back home. If we have no wars to fight, we have no need for the best technological army ever.

 

[eaterofdog]

What needs to happen is that we cut military spending to defensive only and pull all of our military back home. If we have no wars to fight, we have no need for the best technological army ever.

This. No more world policeman/bully. I'm not gonna take some schoolteachers pension when we spend $100K for a bomb to reduce brown kids into constituent atoms.

 

[$tinkle]

also, @ the "cornpolio" tag

contrary to what your mom says, i do my best work after dark

also, i didn't know where to start for a response.



back to my oar...

 

[dante]

Sadly, a default would only hurt the US itself. We must pay our debt payments and interest before all other payments.

What needs to happen is that we cut military spending to defensive only and pull all of our military back home. If we have no wars to fight, we have no need for the best technological army ever.

This. No more world policeman/bully. I'm not gonna take some schoolteachers pension when we spend $100K for a bomb to reduce brown kids into constituent atoms.

No no no no NO NO NO!! You guys have it *completely* backwards. We need to slash entitlement spending, education spending, welfare, etc, so that we can AFFORD to fund these wars of choice. Jeez, don't you guys watch Fox News?

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/republican-priorities

But I want to ask you one more question, because when I watched the president last night he talked about the things that have driven us to this situation, and he said two wars that we couldn't pay for, a prescription drug plan that, you know, was way too expensive to pay for, and the financial crisis that followed and that was, you know, toward the beginning of his watch and overlapping the Bush administration.

But I couldn't help thinking, well, if we weren't in such a precarious situation and hadn't overextended ourselves to such an incredible extent where we are sending out 80 million checks a month - the U.S. government - wouldn't we have been able to handle those things like the two wars in a much better, stronger fiscal position, and isn't that where we really want to be as a country, where a war doesn't bust us because we've got good fundamentals?

 

[stevew]

Sadly, a default would only hurt the US itself. We must pay our debt payments and interest before all other payments.

What needs to happen is that we cut military spending to defensive only and pull all of our military back home. If we have no wars to fight, we have no need for the best technological army ever.

it's funny when you feel guilty.

 

[jimmydean]

No no no no NO NO NO!! You guys have it *completely* backwards. We need to slash entitlement spending, education spending, welfare, etc, so that we can AFFORD to fund these wars of choice. Jeez, don't you guys watch Fox News?

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/republican-priorities

This.

How would I afford my H2 if I am saving for my child's education? Think of the future!

 

[$tinkle]

How would I afford my H2 if I am saving for my child's education? Think of the future!

why should you save for education? it's a basic human right the gov't should provide at no cost to you.

besides, you deserve to drive your H2 on the eisenhower interstate system, just like cripples can wheel on the fdr moving sidewalk system




sidebar: how did i conflate those 2 when i tagged? i can be such a palinator...

 

[Pesqueeb]

@ $tinkle

It’s hard not to appreciate the irony that El Paso County, which deems itself the limited government bastion of the Western World, is rolling in pig fat and lapping up ‘leventy jillions of dollars in federal spending, compared with other much more liberal communities.

In a useful piece of reportage, the Gazette’s Maria St. Louis-Sanchez delivered the bottom line this week, showing that in 2009 (the most recent year for which complete statistics are available), El Paso County slurped up $10.8 billion dollars.

That is more than enough for a weekend in Manitou.

“The county is more dependent on federal money than most other places in Colorado and the nation,” St. Louis-Sanchez’s story said. “On average, El Paso County received a little more than $17,800 for every man, woman and child. Colorado averaged $14,000 per person, and the U.S. average was just more than $10,500 in 2009.”

In the same story, Fred Crowley, a senior economist for the Southern Colorado Economic Forum, estimated that federal spending is about one-third of the local economy.

Of course, at the same time federal spending is lamented from the rooftops, we’re very glad to have it coming in the door. The combined payroll from the six military installations in the county make up the fiscal backbone of the area and very few want to see that diminished.

Man, we love to say we love limited government around here, even though there is quite a bit of evidence that we don’t really have it. And we like to make fun of one of our liberal northern neighbors, commonly referred to as the People’s Republic of Boulder.

Yet Boulder County manages to get by with three county commissioners, while we have five. Fact: 58 other Colorado counties have just three commissioners.

The city of Boulder does not own a parking garage empire, a hospital or its own power plants, as Colorado Springs does. Boulder has not found it necessary to switch to a strong-mayor form of government, which centralizes more power in an executive — the kind of government we now have in Colorado Springs. Pueblo voted down a strong-mayor proposal last year.

Colorado Springs is the only Colorado city currently building a giant $2.3 billion water project, which will be an important economic driver, as is the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs.

When you add all of it up, it’s clear government spending is the most important engine in our community now, as well as for the foreseeable future. It’s a fact, not something to be condemned. But the next time you hear a local politico celebrating our community’s devotion to limited government, ask him or her to supply the evidence for such an outlandish claim.
http://www.gazette.com/news/popular-121891-around-government.html

 

[jonKranked]

why should you save for education? it's a basic human right the gov't should provide at no cost to you.

cram it you socialist

 

[dante]

@ $tinkle

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise....

 

[$tinkle]

you ponces not been paying attention? while all squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.

so sayeth the paul lynde

 

[JohnE]

Personally, I would not want my kids ejumakated by a government that has got itself into such a monetary mess...

But seriously, military spending is an easy target. Beyond the 2 wars started by that turd who left them for the black guy. But why isnt anyone preaching responsible spending? I cringe every year when our S$ (Supply...) guys come around with "fall out money" spending requests. "We have $XXK to spend and have to do it by tommorow afternoon." Some of the most idiotic crap gets purchased, on YOUR dimes. Alot of it is useless, still more of it is simply never used. Further, if said money is not spent, you lose the equal amount from next years budget, because it is obvious that you dont need it.
Gubbernment nonsense and shenanigans I say...

"I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight...the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag..."

M. Gen Smedley Butler, USMC

 

[ohio]

Apparently there's been a 50x increase in the price of extracting blood from our enemies-of-the-moment since 1953.

I agree with everything you've written in principle. In the interest of statistical honor, however, I must point out that our agricultural productivity has increased by multiples AND the cost of wheat has dropped in real dollars, so 50x is probably high by at least a factor of 2.

 

[MMike]

I agree with everything you've written in principle. In the interest of statistical honor, however, I must point out that our agricultural productivity has increased by multiples AND the cost of wheat has dropped in real dollars, so 50x is probably high by at least a factor of 2.

nerd!!

 

[Toshi]

I agree with everything you've written in principle. In the interest of statistical honor, however, I must point out that our agricultural productivity has increased by multiples AND the cost of wheat has dropped in real dollars, so 50x is probably high by at least a factor of 2.

… but then how much of the increased agricultural productivity can be attributed in turn to the wide use of petrochemical-based fertilizers, use made possible by the artificially low oil prices we enjoy as an intended side effect of having our military thumb on the neck of the Saudi princes and their like?

 

[JohnE]

Was just giggling about having my thumb on a petro dollar rich Saud as I gassed up this morning. If we didnt have those bastards on the hook, we would be paying over $3 per gallon...oh, wait...

 

[dante]

But seriously, military spending is an easy target. Beyond the 2 wars started by that turd who left them for the black guy. But why isnt anyone preaching responsible spending? I cringe every year when our S$ (Supply...) guys come around with "fall out money" spending requests. "We have $XXK to spend and have to do it by tommorow afternoon." Some of the most idiotic crap gets purchased, on YOUR dimes. Alot of it is useless, still more of it is simply never used. Further, if said money is not spent, you lose the equal amount from next years budget, because it is obvious that you dont need it.

We go about our military COMPLETELY wrong. It's the one government institution that shows the absolute worst aspects of SOCIALISM rant... It's a government run program that has zero cost controls, and zero incentive to actually provide the best service for every dollar.

The military requesting funds and Congress approving them (and inserting their own pork) is backwards, and we should take a cue from the corporate world. Give the military $XXXb (I'd say $300b), and let THEM decide how best to protect us. Take the decisions on what to build and where to build it out of Congress's hands, allow the military to actually figure out how to squeeze every last penny out of our tax dollars, and let's get it far more efficient.

Unfortunately, that along with raising taxes (on everyone) and cutting spending on health care and entitlements is political suicide so I don't see that happening anytime soon...

 

[IH8Rice]

they are finally putting all that money into use. sorta

 

[JohnE]

Give the military $XXXb (I'd say $300b), and let THEM decide how best to protect us. Take the decisions on what to build and where to build it out of Congress's hands, allow the military to actually figure out how to squeeze every last penny out of our tax dollars, and let's get it far more efficient.

I think you are referring to purchase of equipment and weapons, correct? Because my idea of protecting the country would be a nice ride in the morning, a trip to the gym in the afternoon followedby a night of drinking beer and watching hockey or porn (Depends on the season...). While some other idiots in service would want toinvade Tijuana, or Sweden (I may be okay w Sweden) or just generally being a$$hats.

It is funny, I have used the military health care (A very Socialized system...) as an example to some of teh Right Winger types to explain how Socialized medicine works. Most of them just cant grasp it...

 

[Da Peach]

they are finally putting all that money into use. sorta

I thought the whole thing about those is that they did vertical takeoff... Whoopidydoo.

 

[MMike]

I believe VTOL is optional

 

[Andyman_1970]

I thought the whole thing about those is that they did vertical takeoff... Whoopidydoo.

I believe VTOL is optional

The F-35 is the "one size fits all" for all three services:

F-35A = Air Force, replacement for F-16 and has been discussed F-15

F-35B = VTOL version, USMC/UK FAA, replacement for AV-8B Harriers

F-35C = Carrier version, USN / UK FAA, replacement for F/A-18A, B, C, D, possibly some going to USMC with NextGen Jammer to replace EA-6B.

 

[$tinkle]

It is funny, I have used the military health care (A very Socialized system...) as an example to some of teh Right Winger types to explain how Socialized medicine works. Most of them just cant grasp it...

one thing this "right winger" can't grasp is how you can opt into or out of socialism

you figure that out, please be sure & let me know.