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Election Day(s) Thread.

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
7,913
4,731
A viable 3rd party in the US might make things work a little better if it wasn't Nazi Party mk2...
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,038
2,736
Ottawa, Canada
Yes - he can solidify the Crazy Motherfucker block.
this is what Le Front National is in France. But... their system of elections is significantly different from the US', with the notion of "tours" and needing an absolute majority to win outright. This allows people to vote for their preferred option in the first round, and if that doesn't work out, then vote strategically in the second round. I think it's a decent system.

How would having a third party work in the US context. There must be historical examples?
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
67,622
11,421
media blackout
this is what Le Front National is in France. But... their system of elections is significantly different from the US', with the notion of "tours" and needing an absolute majority to win outright. This allows people to vote for their preferred option in the first round, and if that doesn't work out, then vote strategically in the second round. I think it's a decent system.
ranked voting?

How would having a third party work in the US context.
it doesn't. the DNC and RNC are as much businesses as they are political orgs.

the last time i can think of there was a 3rd party candidate taken seriously (and included in national debates - including what i believe was the only time ever there was a national presidential debate with 3 candidates from 3 parties) was ross perot in 1992.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
7,913
4,731
this is what Le Front National is in France. But... their system of elections is significantly different from the US', with the notion of "tours" and needing an absolute majority to win outright. This allows people to vote for their preferred option in the first round, and if that doesn't work out, then vote strategically in the second round. I think it's a decent system.

How would having a third party work in the US context. There must be historical examples?
Sounds a bit like ranked voting that some states have for certain elections.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,038
3,511
[ε◎з]
this is what Le Front National is in France. But... their system of elections is significantly different from the US', with the notion of "tours" and needing an absolute majority to win outright. This allows people to vote for their preferred option in the first round, and if that doesn't work out, then vote strategically in the second round. I think it's a decent system.

How would having a third party work in the US context. There must be historical examples?
I could be wrong, but historically if there is a viable third party candidate for a national office it tends to split one of the primary party's vote, enabling the other primary party to walk away with the win. So like @jonKranked just said "it doesn't" work. I also can't remember a third party candidate for a national position other than Perot. I personally think the entire election system needs an overhaul, specifically to enable multiple parties to exist and be viable. So yeah, ranked voting or some other system.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,038
2,736
Ottawa, Canada
As I understand it, it's not quite ranked voting, where you'd place your preferred selection in order, and then if not one gets an outright majority they go to the person with the most second place ranks etc. In France, again - as I understand it, if no one gets an outright majority, there is a second voting day with only the top two vote-getters on the ballot.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,038
2,736
Ottawa, Canada
Top results from a quick Google search:

The New Republic article answers my question... the last time a third party became a major party was when the Republican party replaced the Whigs between 1854 and 1860... so it's been a while.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,038
3,511
[ε◎з]
As I understand it, it's not quite ranked voting, where you'd place your preferred selection in order, and then if not one gets an outright majority they go to the person with the most second place ranks etc. In France, again - as I understand it, if no one gets an outright majority, there is a second voting day with only the top two vote-getters on the ballot.
This is how Georgia works, and maybe some other states? If no one gets the full 50% required, the top two go into sudden death overtime.
The article also asserts that this was instituted to suppress the votes of black voters, which isn't surprising. But also now-a-days, would it be a better system? Should more states consider it? Would it allow for more viable third party candidates?
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,038
2,736
Ottawa, Canada
This is how Georgia works, and maybe some other states? If no one gets the full 50% required, the top two go into sudden death overtime.
The article also asserts that this was instituted to suppress the votes of black voters, which isn't surprising. But also now-a-days, would it be a better system? Should more states consider it? Would it allow for more viable third party candidates?
Crazy. what a fucked up legacy your country has to deal with...
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Down here at the presidential level you have to reach 50%+1 votes, or a 10-point differential with the second place. If none of those conditions are met, the two most voted candidates go to a ballottage, or second chance. At that stage, the one with more votes wins.

Until pretty recently (~20 years ago) we had the same fucked up electoral college system you guys are suffering now.

We have a multi-party democracy thought, so it all kinda makes sense. On the last presidential election (2019) we had seven different candidates.

I still remember when my civics instruction teacher back in the first year of high school would praise the north american bipartisan system as "the pinnacle of democracy" :rofl:...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
42,926
8,735
Sleazattle
What would you propose as an alternative mechanism?

Non partisan primaries. All primary contenders run in the same race. This is how Washington State elections work. Top two move on to the final round. Parties are not officially recognized. in theory you get a winner who representatives the average instead of the left or the right.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Non partisan primaries. All primary contenders run in the same race. This is how Washington State elections work. Top two move on to the final round. Parties are not officially recognized. in theory you get a winner who representatives the average instead of the left or the right.
We have open party elections six months before the elective polls (I think the equivalent in the US are the primaries). They are mandatory and anyone can vote for any pre-candidate, from any party. The official candidates for each party are chosen that way and then they have six months to campaign for the final election which consagrates all the elective charges. This final election is also mandatory.

I think the worst aspects of the american elective system are the lack of mandatory voting, the need to register to vote, and the fact elections are celebrated on a work day. It's clearly a way to discriminate the lower classes.
 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
53,988
5,727
In a van.... down by the river
I think the worst aspects of the american elective system are the lack of mandatory voting, the need to register to vote, and the fact elections are celebrated on a work day. It's clearly a way to discriminate the lower classes.
Don't get me started on the original creation of fucking population-free states so that the Republican party (at the time) could basically pack the Senate. I mean - North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming should be ONE state, with two Senators for the whole fucking place.

Our country is a built upon a throne of bullshit. :D
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
27,296
4,799
In my pants
Don't get me started on the original creation of fucking population-free states so that the Republican party (at the time) could basically pack the Senate. I mean - North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming should be ONE state, with two Senators for the whole fucking place.

Our country is a built upon a throne of bullshit. :D
Montana is a real place with people and cities. Wyoming is just Jackson/Disneyland and some fracking fields.


Still not sure what a Dakota or an eastern Montana is.
 

Fool

Turbo Monkey
Sep 10, 2001
1,784
362
Brooklyn
Okay, here's a thing. We have these here two parties that represent barely half of the registered voters. From a gallup poll in 12/2020, 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent.

Something to think about when party groups are polled about their feelings about this, that, or the other thing. That percentage hangs pretty old-man's balls low and not really an accurate representation of half of a voting population. More like a quarter. (I realize I am being a little liberal with my math here)

But to Westy's point, nonpartisan primaries should be mandatory in all 50 (52, if you're ODB) states, but they ain't. Independents, and there are a lot of us, I assume a lot you folks are, have very little say up front, where it counts.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
42,926
8,735
Sleazattle
District by district voting patterns. My district did its part: +64 Biden.


"So much more red, proof of fraud!" -things dumb people are saying


+92 in my hood. Even the block just south of me with the big retirement home was +88.
 
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Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
33,372
7,796
Riding the baggage carousel.
District by district voting patterns. My district did its part: +64 Biden.

Wow, way to go COS........

A lot sure has changed here in the last 10 years. Now if we could just get rid of Doug Lamborn. :rolleyes:
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
7,913
4,731
District by district voting patterns. My district did its part: +64 Biden.

Interesting to see the light red on the Kansas side of North Table. S and I always remarked riding through there pre-election it was the only real "area" we'd see multiple signs supporting mango.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
42,926
8,735
Sleazattle
Interesting to see the light red on the Kansas side of North Table. S and I always remarked riding through there pre-election it was the only real "area" we'd see multiple signs supporting mango.

It is interesting to compare areas that don't align with the surroundings to the racial dot map. There is a bright red spot in NYC (South Williamsburg) that aligns with an exclusively white(blue) blob in an otherwise diverse area.

I believe there is a dense population of Hasidic Jews there.

Captureelectionmap.JPG

1612303380957.png


You see the opposite effect on the East (hispanic) side of Yakima.
 
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SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
53,988
5,727
In a van.... down by the river
District by district voting patterns. My district did its part: +64 Biden.

Heh. With the number of Trump and thin-blue-line flags around here... guess it's not surprising: Trump +0.1