stolen from vital 
Electronic suspension
- Thread starter toodles
- Start date
I'm the first one to spend silly amounts of money on bike gadgets... but why do the lizards still think we need lockouts? Have they actually ridden any modern bike (don't answer that)? I use the climb switch on my shock about once a month, if that, on fire road climbs that are 40 minutes long. The only time I've wanted to lock out my fork was riding my enduro bike at a pump track.
I think there is a good portion of the bike population that sets up their suspension to perform like a 1973 Cadillac El dorado so they don't feel any bumps as they ride in a perfectly rigid position, which results in something that can wallow when pedaling. People who complain when groomed flow trails get bumpy.
it's brilliant, instead of good damping, they can perpetuate the "dh/trail/climb" stuff and give us that blow-through-the-travel stuff for trails and DH. Plus, a lockout might save me 1 minute climbing 3000' to the top of North Mountain, but you can feel it in the parking lot! It's harder! SOLD!
too bad those options are gone in 2022, every useful build is equiped with electronics, the cheap but well equipped alu versions are gone too.
Admittedly I'm still riding a 27.5 2012 dw suspension trail bike, but the only time in a couple of years I've moved my rear shock from open to another setting was a couple of weekends ago for a high alpine traverse through some single-trench sections to keep my bike higher in the travel, otherwise with flat pedals you bang off the sides of the trench and have to HAB instead. I don't recall moving my fork from open on the trail bike.
Not sure I need to pay $2k for that.
Now we need some computer nerds to put their skills to good use and make an app to hack into and lock out all the $12,500 Specialized Enduros ridden by the dentists.
It will complete the circle of life as their compatriots will now profit by reinstalling their teeth, and hence forth buy more $12,500 Enduros.
It will complete the circle of life as their compatriots will now profit by reinstalling their teeth, and hence forth buy more $12,500 Enduros.
And the people that have Enduro bikes and climb cart roads on the regular rejoiced????
Personally, I'd much rather have properly tuned suspension and if investing money would much rather put it towards shims, pistons, and spring rate upgrades.
As for the Noleen reference. It certainly seems relevant after my initial pass, but I'll need to do a deeper dive on my own time since work gets in the way during the day. The expiration date is quite relevant as well when considering Fox Live Valve and this from RS. Remember kiddos. Patents are just as much about the idea/concept/and legalese word-smithing as the specific embodiment. @johnbryanpeters post seems totally on point and relevant. What old is new again......
Personally, I'd much rather have properly tuned suspension and if investing money would much rather put it towards shims, pistons, and spring rate upgrades.
As for the Noleen reference. It certainly seems relevant after my initial pass, but I'll need to do a deeper dive on my own time since work gets in the way during the day. The expiration date is quite relevant as well when considering Fox Live Valve and this from RS. Remember kiddos. Patents are just as much about the idea/concept/and legalese word-smithing as the specific embodiment. @johnbryanpeters post seems totally on point and relevant. What old is new again......
Wasn't that just like a basic piezo valve or something?
hack it to play aphex twin
In theory all you need is a piezo valve if it has sufficient flow range, speed and can adjust for velocity and position.
with that config when the battery dies, so does the suspension, no?
correct me if i'm wrong - but the axs version is a servo controlling the external compression adjusters. meaning in the event the battery died, the suspension should (theoretically) continue working, but be stuck on the last suspension setting that was active.
It would depend on the design what the default position was. But you would bend up with a single fixed orifice damper.
pretty sure the noleen/k2 piezo turned into the standard shock (NR something?) it was attached to when the battery died, still as functional as that shock was without the electronics. a buddy had that fork and that's how I remember it.
I think this one defaults to the open setting after battery failure or if you needed to remove it because your derailleur or dropper battery died and you forgot to bring spare batteries on your bicycle ride. maybe they can work it out so we can have a charging port on our e bike motor to recharge our component batteries. maybe a solar panel on the handlebar? or a friction generated charger against the tire? endless possibilities!
edit - found this: http://www.neebu.net/~khuon/cycling/bikes/K2/1999-OzM/smartshock.html
I will be interested in electronic suspension when it reaches the point of what is on cars. A single port dynamically controlled based on position and velocity. This is the magnetorheological version but I think piezo systems can pretty much work the same way.
BOSE has been working on this stuff for ages
That's what it looks like from the patent application.
And Ferrari licensed it from them.
hayyyyyyyy guissssss
This is an interesting read, thx. Just skip to the last interview, the only one of relevance immo.
Agreed!
If electronic in suspension catches up so that their will be enough units being sold, suspension tuners will need to adapt and offer improvements for those as well. Improvements could both be software or hardware.
Handlebar-mounted miniature windmill might work. If you can't ride fast enough you just spin it with your finger until all your batteriez recharge.maybe they can work it out so we can have a charging port on our e bike motor to recharge our component batteries. maybe a solar panel on the handlebar? or a friction generated charger against the tire? endless possibilities!
Truly adapative suspension has the freedom to provide not only position and velocity based damping but can take in additional sensor inputs. Adaptive suspension was kind of a popular subject for projects, papers and homework assignments in control theory in grad school. One of the ideas I considered pursuing for a project course was using an accelerometer in the unsuspected part of the suspension to predict conditions and adapt suspension settings accordingly. I abandoned the idea for something simpler due to time constraints.
pretty sure the noleen/k2 piezo turned into the standard shock (NR something?) it was attached to when the battery died, still as functional as that shock was without the electronics. a buddy had that fork and that's how I remember it.
I think this one defaults to the open setting after battery failure or if you needed to remove it because your derailleur or dropper battery died and you forgot to bring spare batteries on your bicycle ride. maybe they can work it out so we can have a charging port on our e bike motor to recharge our component batteries. maybe a solar panel on the handlebar? or a friction generated charger against the tire? endless possibilities!
edit - found this: http://www.neebu.net/~khuon/cycling/bikes/K2/1999-OzM/smartshock.html
That's a problem with so many "pedaling" systems, when encountering bumps and variations in the trail, they only seem to do the suspension thing AFTER transmitting that initial impact, un-damped essentially, so while they move, it's more secondary to attenuate the resulting chassis movement caused by that bump flinging your ass in the air and then the resulting slam-down, not so much to really dampen that initial impact. That's bad for control.
yep. exactly. bonus - cool noise and added resistance to make you stronger.
Correct. The MR dampers and a version of a rapidly moving needle in a compression valve has been around under the GM umbrella for a very long time. And it's not very well-received in the auto world due to the inconsistency from one input to the next.
If Fox and RS had their shit together to the point where the fork dampers had actual compression damping, and their chassis didn't turn into binding messes on sharp inputs, I'd say sure, go for something exotic. But they haven't figured out how to wipe their own asses yet basically.
It's a piss-off that they haven't taken the time in the last 20 years to REALLY get those two things dialed and consistent on a production level, but then take it upon themselves to make biking even more expensive and complicated. The problem is that every time some new top-shelf thing like this comes out, it just creeps up the ceiling of the retail pricing more and more (yes, prior to COVID as well), and the mid range stuff eventually shifts up too.
Sssssssssssssssss!, posssssssssssssst reported sssssssssssssssssss
I think he is just emulating lizardly displeasure with your naked reveal of truths.