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electronics on bikes

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by slyfink, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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    http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/06/04...-bike-evolution-with-blackcatbone/#more-60946 really interesting article. Never heard of "mechatronics" before.

    I like his point at the end that electronics will undoubtedly make its way onto mountain bikes (in a sense it aready has with Lapierre and Fox et al.), but that doing so on a rear derailleur that's always so prone to damage sucks. Maybe, just maybe, this is the ticket for gearbox bikes? make them mechatronic and they just might work... I also like the idea of sensors on cranks and brakes to control LSC damping on the shock and the fork...

    anyways, pretty cool stuff, I thought I'd throw it up here to see what poo the monkeys can fling at it...
     
    #1 -   Jun 5, 2013

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  2. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    electronic gearbox
     
    #2 -   Jun 5, 2013
  3. sethimus

    sethimus scroll all you want!

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    mechatronics is a mix of mechanics and electronics, they usually work on cars around here. it's the new title of the former car mechanic trainee in germany.
     
    #3 -   Jun 5, 2013
  4. sundaydoug

    sundaydoug Monkey

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    It's innovative for sure and I can see electronic drivetrain working its way into the high-end XC market at some point. I'm thinking it's going to face an uphill battle though, even moreso than Di2 on road bikes. It's expensive and not really necessary.
     
    #4 -   Jun 5, 2013
  5. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    this is exactly why its perfect for the high end xc market.
     
    #5 -   Jun 5, 2013
  6. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    fwiw, the only battle Di2 stuff faces in road is cost of entry. everyone raves about it, not everyone can afford it. its not a system where you can upgrade piece by piece.
     
    #6 -   Jun 5, 2013
  7. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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    the article talks about more than electronic shifting though. like automatic adjustments to LSC based on power input at the cranks (firm the LSC way up for improved pedalling under power) and braking (hit the brakes and it firms up the LSC of the forks a bit to improve ride height). All automatic. that seems pretty cool to me.
     
    #7 -   Jun 5, 2013
  8. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    its a cool concept, but if your suspension is properly tuned, is it really necessary? seems like an awful lot of work for not a whole lot of benefit.
     
    #8 -   Jun 5, 2013
  9. Mo(n)arch

    Mo(n)arch Turbo Monkey

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    The market needs something new. Carbonz for everyone is only a matter of time and wheelsizes - well - we have more than enough of them.
    Now you need electronics :think:

    But for realz: I think for a few applications it would be beneficial - think about a trailbike with remote locking suspension and a telescopic seatpost whitout cable salad...
     
    #9 -   Jun 5, 2013
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  10. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    electronic carbon.

    big advantage of electronic drivetrains? bye bye barrel adjusters. sh*t's self adjusting. its like skynet. but on your bike. and not necessarily trying to kill you
     
  11. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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    that's part of what tweaked me a bit. He says something about anti-squat necessarily leads to pedal kickback, there's no way around it. But I thought that was what DW sought to do with his suspension designs. And for the most part, I've found it to work quite well, I haven't really noticed much pedal feedback on my Mojo HD, which pedals so well while remaining very active when needed. to be honest, the part that piqued my interest most was the fork height being tied to braking. that's one bit of electronics I find I could use. then again, I haven't ridden anything other than a super-divey Fox 36 Talas in over 8 years, so I might not know how a properly tuned front suspension works...
     
    #11 -   Jun 5, 2013
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  12. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    this. it also appears he's riding some version of an FSR, which do have some pedal feedback. who knows how much time he put into the actual kinematics of the suspension. it could just have some terrible shock curve.
     
  13. blindboxx2334

    blindboxx2334 Turbo Monkey

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    this.

    i really dont like even thinking about putting electronic stuff on my bike.

    one of my favorite things about riding is how much joy one can get from riding a very simple bike. out on the trail, its just you, your bike, and your buddies. i dont want electronics interfering with the relationship me and my bike have got..:rolleyes: its just not needed.
     
  14. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    but it'd be a great scapegoat for a botched race run...

    "man, the battery in my fork died in the last section"
     
  15. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    obligatory smart aleck response:

    when most people can't get their fork to work right, they just get a different fork.
     
  16. blindboxx2334

    blindboxx2334 Turbo Monkey

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    oh when people have more money than smarts.
     
  17. OGRipper

    OGRipper Turbo Monkey

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    NORCAL is the hizzle
    All if this stuff is coming, and it has nothing to do with what we "need".
     
  18. Beef Supreme

    Beef Supreme Turbo Monkey

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    I am the perfect predictor of what Fox will do. If I don't want it, they will go in balls deep.

    I want to dial in my fork and leave it there. No! Here are some electronics
    It would be nice if I could bleed built up pressure on a trail fork. No. This has a travel adjustment.
    How about you make a shorter travel RC2 fork? No! have some CTD crap.
    20mm seems like a good system. No! 15mm it is.
    Could you make so my air spring doesn't suck up the bath oil? OK! We assembled it without oil.
     
  19. rockofullr

    rockofullr confused

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    I want one on my bike!!!
     
  20. kickstand

    kickstand Turbo Monkey

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    I ride my bike to get away from electronics
     
  21. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

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    Can I hack into the system and send a signal to the bike in front of me to downshift right before a big hill?

    As much as I hate electronics even near my bikes, the thought of a eliminating all the cables on my bike makes me think twice...
     
  22. blindboxx2334

    blindboxx2334 Turbo Monkey

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    true. but if people dont like the concept of all this witch craft sh!t on their bike, they wont keep making it and it will all die in the fiery pit of hell. (which is what im hoping)
    couldnt have said it better myself!
     
  23. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    not to worry, its gonna be a looooooooooooooooooooong time before cost of electronic shifting comes down enough to wipe out mechanical mechanicals
     
  24. kickstand

    kickstand Turbo Monkey

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    I'm not worried.

    By then I'll likely be crippled, or flying a hovercraft for entertainment instead anyway
     
  25. William42

    William42 fork ways

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    ridemonkey - where innovation goes to die.

    Somebody thinks they can improve the enjoyment we can receive from our bikes through performance. At the moment, nobody is forcing you to buy anything. If it turns out they're right, great, sign me up. If it turns out they're wrong, oh well, good on them for giving it a shot. This is how suspension came to be. This is how your disc brakes came to be. This is why you have adjustable posts on your trail bikes. This is why you have sweet treaded tires instead of cruiser tires.

    Somebody things they can improve whats out there, and if they do, then it sticks sometimes. You don't have to hate it because it might mean you have the opportunity to spend more money down the line in exchange for a better product, and you don't have to form an opinion to let people know that you're knowledgeable.
     
  26. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    psh i've got tons of great ideas. see post #2.
     
  27. WestCoastHucker

    WestCoastHucker Turbo Monkey

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    daydreaming about a new rhythm line.....
    i hope to have so much electronics on my bike, that it will ride itself while i get an early start on the post ride beers...
     
  28. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    post ride? put a mini fridge in it the front triangle. why wait till the ride is over?
     
  29. Jeremy R

    Jeremy R <b>x</b>

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    I would like to have an electric tea bag device on my saddle that would deliver an electric shock to my balls every time I sit down in a race run.
     
  30. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    replace your seatpost with an electric caddle prod, i'm sure you can find something in the right diameter.

    see that? innovation!
     
  31. djjohnr

    djjohnr Turbo Monkey

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    Theoretically a cool idea. Pragmatically it sounds too expensive to be highly successful.
     
  32. WestCoastHucker

    WestCoastHucker Turbo Monkey

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    daydreaming about a new rhythm line.....
    you might wanna check with DW first...
     
  33. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    that guys lab notebook probably has transformer bikes in it
     
  34. Steve M

    Steve M Turbo Monkey

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    I reckon the idea is great. There are SO many shortcuts you can take with electronics that let you achieve things that otherwise aren't ever even considered by purely mechanical designers, but the cost and increased likelihood of failure (especially with early generations of stuff like this), not to mention however much added weight, are enough to put a lot of people off. The guy interviewed in that article makes a lot of sense though.

    From a suspension point of view though, I find it interesting whenever someone says they think it'd be easy to make an electronically controlled damping adjustment that adapts to whatever you're doing at the time. It's difficult enough to tune a damper to do ONE thing properly, having to calibrate adjustments for a minimum of 2 modes, and optimise the setting for each mode, would be a hell of a design challenge, especially given the relatively poor damping traits of many of the trailbike shocks currently on the market (where this stuff is appearing at the moment). A lot of this stuff has enormous potential to add variables to the setup equation, rather than reduce them as it may first appear, but if that can be overcome then there is no doubt in my mind that electronics is the future.
     
  35. sethimus

    sethimus scroll all you want!

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    just needs good sensors. glad the whole world is gonna sensor crazy in the next few years, if you can wear it, our bikes should too. the stuff happening right now in the mobile world will definitly trickle down to something usefull for bikes.
     
  36. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    let's discuss the obvious. it's not used in moto. :bonk:
     
  37. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    With all the computing power contained in something as small as an ipod touch, I'm amazed that nobody has done more with bike/computer integration. I mean, you could plug in the ipod on the downtube, and there's your battery, computer controller, and connection. You could have flexible circuit board printed right on your downtube to connect your derailleur and shifters:



    No more cable to get tangled. You could add sensors and piezo electric valves to your suspension (Hell yeah 1997) and they could be connected to the device.

    I've also though about an electronic seatpost. An electronic motor and pin system would probably be possible, and would get rid of all the air valving and oil damping. A three position post would require a tiny switch.

    I've often wondered about electric brakes. http://papers.sae.org/2012-01-1801/ An Electronic wedge brake would be a possibility for a bike, with limitless power and a computer to reduce lockup and adjust power curve...why not?

    On a downhill bike battery life really isn't an issue. Buy a second ipod with the same "tune", and plug it in for the second half of the day. Charge em up overnight (everybody has an iphone charger).

    I think there's a ****load of potential, especially on something as experimental as downhill bikes. Making it work right is going to take a brave soul and lots of fine tuning, but the possibilities are awesome.
     
  38. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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    interesting... same guy, moar action pics. says he did it for more reliability (rather than bling and weight I guess?)