[redvellocet]

After 2 years of not touching my bike I noticed that my Stage 5 is leaking oil everywhere and has air in the oil circuit. So basically I'm having a little debate with myself: should I just rebuild it or use the opportunity to get something new for the coming season? What would you do?

At the moment you can get a new Roco RC WC Coil for 99€, a new Moto C2R for 230€ or a new 2015 Fox RC4 for 250€. I don't really like the CCDB so I didn't look for these. Are these shocks contenders against the Stage 5 or am I better off with my 8 year old shock?

 

[Udi]

If you're getting something new, definitely get the 2015 Fox RC4 (make sure it has the 12.7mm shaft).

It blows the doors off everything else you listed, as well as most shocks you can currently buy. I've raved about it before here if you dig around, but it's not so much that the shock is "super amazing", it's very much the opposite case that "everything else just kinda sucks". Avoid Marzocchi like the plague, and I'm with you on the CCDB.

Compared to every shock (except the RC4) you listed, I'd probably prefer the rebuilt Elka.
MRP bought them out and will still have parts, since they re-released the Stage 5 under their own branding for a while.

So this one's an easy answer:
#1 option: 2015 RC4
#2 option: Elka rebuild

Enjoy!

 

[redvellocet]

I only listed the 2015 RC4 here because I read some posts of you about it.

Is the C2R really that bad? You don't really find any feedback about it.

I had a 2010 RC4 before, didn't like it at all, so I'm a bit sceptical.

 

[Udi]

It's a completely different shock to the 2010 (fat shaft) RC4 and I'd prefer it over the Elka for sure.
The C2R is not the shock I would count on to hold up for heavy use over a long period, and both it and the Roco have slightly strange rebound valving. The CCDB can develop a rocking shaft and leaking main seal under heavy use and particularly in some frames. I wouldn't suggest stuff without reason, why compromise over 20E?

I don't get paid to convince you or as a result of your purchase though, please keep that in mind.

 

[redvellocet]

I mean, I really like my Elka, but right now there is hardly any support and it has become quite an old design, so why not try something new.

I only looked for those MZ shocks because they have become incredibly cheap and I really like my 2010 888 RC3 Evo.

My old RC4 was a bit strange, I couldn't find a setup I liked. It blew through its travel, had hardly any mid stroke support and if you cranked up the compression to counter it, it just got way too harsh without staying higher in its travel.

 

[Udi]

 

[Jm_]

Stage 6?

 

[William42]

Moving from my elka to an rc4 made me realize just how profoundly "meh" the elka was. You should get rid of it, because it's both old, and bad.

 

[csermonet]

any og marz stuff is quickly becoming unserviceable. the parts are not being produced anymore and haven't been for a while so i wouldn't put my faith in one to get years of service from. rc4 is pretty rad, i bought a dhx2 for my dhr and took it off to put my oe rc4 back on, fat shaft too. the 4 way adjust-ability of those things gets me in over my head and just becomes too much of a headache. thats a high price for an rc4 though, id see what the cuntbike(pinkbike) buy/sell has.

 

[redvellocet]

Those 240€ are for a brand new 2015 RC4, used ones are sold for 160€+ over here. There's also one for sale with a factory/werks tune sold by a German pro-dh rider (was his backup shock, never used), but I think those shimstacks will be way too firm.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Too many shims is hardly a problem on that shock since it is so easy to work on. Instructions are available on Fox site.

 

[Loki87]

May i chime in with a quick question?
Why exactly the 2015 RC4? What has changed between 14 and 15 models?

 

[redvellocet]

Oh okay. Does anyone know what exactly they changed on their shocks ridden by the pros?
He says different piston, different shimstack and bushings and shaft have been measured and paired, no idea if that's true.

 

[Flo33]

Oh okay. Does anyone know what exactly they changed on their shocks ridden by the pros?
He says different piston, different shimstack and bushings and shaft have been measured and paired, no idea if that's true.

If you're talking about the shock offered by Markus Klausmann just ask him. He is pretty straight forward with his answers and is generally a nice guy.

May i chime in with a quick question?
Why exactly the 2015 RC4? What has changed between 14 and 15 models?

Connection between main body and piggy, if I remember correctly.

 

[redvellocet]

Haha, that's exactly the shock I'm talking about.
Yeah I asked him and what I listed above is what he told me, but I don't know if it's worth for an occasional rider like me.

 

[Flo33]

He was sponsored by Fast. So I guess that's the parts origin. I bought an RC4 from him some time ago and it was a smooth transaction and it's still in perfect working condition.

 

[redvellocet]

Allright, sounds good. So basically I could get a used '14 RC4 for 150€ or the new & tuned '15 RC4 for 240€. Need to think about it.

 

[Flo33]

Allright, sounds good. So basically I could get a used '14 RC4 for 150€ or the new & tuned '15 RC4 for 240€. Need to think about it.

Make an offer around 200. I was successful that way.

 

[Udi]

I would just get the stock standard one, if you are able to purchase one brand new for the same price.
The reason I say this is (as you suspect), without knowing details of the valving changes, particularly if valved for a faster rider, it may not be ideal for you. The stock shock is very versatile and certainly my recommendations pertain only to the stock shock.

I know Flo33 has had a good experience, and I think you'll *probably* be fine if you go that route too - but there's no guarantee that it's a) the same valving as his, and b) that it's coming out of and going into identical frames. It's very easy for one person's experience to be good and another's to be bad, even with the exact same "custom valving" depending on the average leverage ratio and LR curve of the frame. I'd rather not rely on someone's opinion when it comes to this stuff, no matter how fast or reputable.

Also I wouldn't waste time with a used one if you can get a new one: +90E for an absolute guarantee that no one has messed around with the shock or ever ridden it, is a no-brainer in my book.

@Loki87 Year models can be used interchangeably and nothing changed from 2014-2015 as far as I'm aware. As long as it has the 12.7mm shaft, 5pc cream bushing/hardware setup, doesn't have "boost valve" written on the sticker, and does have "air assist rate" printed on the old BO adjuster: then you can be fairly sure you have the correct version. The old fat shaft version (in late 2013 guise) is still a decent shock and can be a good option for some frames, but for the best modern frames the small shaft is the ideal option. As a sidenote, the older 2010-2012 RC4s did have issues with blowing compression assemblies out of the neck (it got better every year, until they finally resolved it completely at some point in 2013 with a single thick circlip rather than the multi-wind).

 

[redvellocet]

That's how I killed my old RC4, it blew its compression assembly out and I had the pleasure of collection all the parts that were laying all over the trail. I wasn't even mad, hated that thing.

I would have already bought the new stock RC4, but it shows a picture of a fat shaft shock and says Boostvalve in the description, the shop didn't answer my question yet.

https://www.gocycle.de/a.php/shop/gocycle/lang/de/a/53615/kw/2015er-FOX-DHX-RC4-Factory-Daempfer-241-x-76-mm-Feder-300-oder-350-LBS-GO-CYCLE-Shop

The guy selling the tuned shock is an ex-DH WC rider and owns a suspension tuning and service center now, think he can tell me if it fits my frame.

 

[Udi]

Yes, we all know who the guy is.
Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[saruti]

what bike is it for?....

 

[Flo33]

a) the same valving as his, and b) that it's coming out of and going into identical frames.

Exactly. Different lengths, different bikes. Also mine only had the main piston changed, which I already converted to stock.

 

[HardtailHack]

Fast Bike is listed as a service centre for MRP, they rebadged the shock a few years ago so parts should still be easy enough to get.

I still have a Stage 5 and a Stoy in my spare parts box, both were meant to go for services but never made it.

 

[redvellocet]

I contacted MRP a while ago and they were very helpful and even gave some PDF instructions for a DIY service, the german Distributor on the other hand never even answered my mails, so no seals...ordered a seal kit from Israel but don't really want to rebuild it at the moment.

So the RC4 arrived last week but didn't fit my Voltage, so I had to modify my linkage first and didn't have the possibility to give it a ride yet. Are there any base settings available by Fox? Can't find anything.

 

[iRider]

So the RC4 arrived last week but didn't fit my Voltage, so I had to modify my linkage first and didn't have the possibility to give it a ride yet. Are there any base settings available by Fox? Can't find anything.

Base settings won't help you with a reshimmed shock valved for a pro rider.

 

[William42]

I don't know why anybody would buy a shock that was custom valved for somebody else.

Are you the same weight? Do you ride similar trails? Are you a similar speed as an ex WC racer? Do you have the same bike frame? If the answer to any of those questions is no, you should probably look closer at the stock shock, which has a very wide setting range and is fucking awesome.

 

[Loki87]

Quick question for the resident expert @Udi
https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/15073759/
Would you say this is the "correct" RC4? Doesn´t have the piggyback sticker anymore, but the "Air Assists Rate" writing. Also looks like the small shaft version, but that i will confirm before buying.
Buy or better stay away?

 

[Udi]

@Loki87
That looks like the "correct" RC4 to me, that appears to be the 12.7mm shaft, and as you say the correct BO knob.
However it's got regular DU bushings pressed in instead of the 5pc that came with the shock (perhaps a few very early versions still had the DU, but I suspect this would be a user-swap), and coupled with the sticker change and whatever other "tuned" sticker is on the piggy (TF I suspect) I'd wonder what else has been messed with.

Personally I'd prefer one that met ALL the criteria for the factory release shock (as per post #19), just because it means it's much more likely that it's a completely stock shock. This goes for the Klausmann versions too (to address the wankery in post #20), I'd always recommend and prefer a stock-standard shock.

However, if it's cheap and you don't mind a little gamble then by all means grab it.
I'd recommend reverting to the cream 5pc hardware (ideally genuine, otherwise aftermarket copy eg. Push) unless your frame has bearing shock mounts, then that end is probably fine to leave.

Good luck!

 

[buckoW]

I contacted MRP a while ago and they were very helpful and even gave some PDF instructions for a DIY service, the german Distributor on the other hand never even answered my mails, so no seals...ordered a seal kit from Israel but don't really want to rebuild it at the moment.

So the RC4 arrived last week but didn't fit my Voltage, so I had to modify my linkage first and didn't have the possibility to give it a ride yet. Are there any base settings available by Fox? Can't find anything.

Where did you need to modify the linkage?

 

[Loki87]

@Loki87
That looks like the "correct" RC4 to me, that appears to be the 12.7mm shaft, and as you say the correct BO knob.
However it's got regular DU bushings pressed in instead of the 5pc that came with the shock (perhaps a few very early versions still had the DU, but I suspect this would be a user-swap), and coupled with the sticker change and whatever other "tuned" sticker is on the piggy (TF I suspect) I'd wonder what else has been messed with.

Personally I'd prefer one that met ALL the criteria for the factory release shock (as per post #19), just because it means it's much more likely that it's a completely stock shock. This goes for the Klausmann versions too (to address the wankery in post #20), I'd always recommend and prefer a stock-standard shock.

However, if it's cheap and you don't mind a little gamble then by all means grab it.
I'd recommend reverting to the cream 5pc hardware (ideally genuine, otherwise aftermarket copy eg. Push) unless your frame has bearing shock mounts, then that end is probably fine to leave.

Good luck!

Thank you mate!
He claims it has been serviced by TF and he's got the receipt to prove it so i suspect i can get some more information about the tune from that.
All other available options have V10 specific tunes or are way overpriced, so this one is my best option yet.
Thanks again!

 

[Flo33]

so i suspect i can get some more information about the tune from that.

I doubt that, coz the two times I had them tune suspension for me they didn't provide any details like shimstack or the like.

 

[Loki87]

I doubt that, coz the two times I had them tune suspension for me they didn't provide any details like shimstack or the like.

I mean it should at least state if they have done any revalving at all. As far as i can tell that is not part of the regular service and should be listed seperately on a receipt, or do they do it as part of the regular service?

 

[Flo33]

True, it's not a standard procedure. Revalving is part of a PUSH upgrade e.g., but could be had combined with a regular full service as well, if paid for.

Good luck